AMD crackdown

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,414
5,270
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Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Interesting.... :)

I especially like this quote: :D

In fact, AMD says that a whopping $563 million could have been saved in taxpayer dollars, had the government been brand-neutral in its purchases.
 

George Powell

Golden Member
Dec 3, 1999
1,265
0
76
The same goes for business as well, although most business contracts will not be as large as government ones going for the best / most suitable system would be better for everyone.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
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Intel is the default standard for Business and Gov't for many reasons - mostly involving issues in the past with AMD>

However, numerous gov't agencies still won't buy an AMD system until it comes with a TPM which is a standard for security in many of the agencies.



 

T9D

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2001
5,320
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I'd imagine what would (or should at least) matter most in the end is power consumption (as far as cost goes). Thousands and thousands of computers running all day for years adds up to a lot of money in energy.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: WackyDan
Intel is the default standard for Business and Gov't for many reasons - mostly involving issues in the past with AMD>

However, numerous gov't agencies still won't buy an AMD system until it comes with a TPM which is a standard for security in many of the agencies.


TPM?


Originally posted by: tk109
I'd imagine what would (or should at least) matter most in the end is power consumption (as far as cost goes). Thousands and thousands of computers running all day for years adds up to a lot of money in energy.

It's possible that the people buying PCs don't ever even consider that.
For example, here at my college, our CAD systems are just lovely - sure they've got dual P4's at 3.2GHz. But they are running with Intel Extreme Graphics. I've got an XP2400+ with a Radeon 9800Pro - the Pro/Engineer software runs beautifully on my system. Movements are liquidy smooth. It's awful on the college's systems, even with the detail turned way down. 10-15fps on simple models, and maybe 1-5fps on complex models.
Someone really knew what they were doing when they bought those systems. :roll:

Same with government agencies - they might not even think about power consumption in the purchasing process.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Originally posted by: Jeff7
Originally posted by: WackyDan
Intel is the default standard for Business and Gov't for many reasons - mostly involving issues in the past with AMD>

However, numerous gov't agencies still won't buy an AMD system until it comes with a TPM which is a standard for security in many of the agencies.


TPM?


Originally posted by: tk109
I'd imagine what would (or should at least) matter most in the end is power consumption (as far as cost goes). Thousands and thousands of computers running all day for years adds up to a lot of money in energy.

It's possible that the people buying PCs don't ever even consider that.
For example, here at my college, our CAD systems are just lovely - sure they've got dual P4's at 3.2GHz. But they are running with Intel Extreme Graphics. I've got an XP2400+ with a Radeon 9800Pro - the Pro/Engineer software runs beautifully on my system. Movements are liquidy smooth. It's awful on the college's systems, even with the detail turned way down. 10-15fps on simple models, and maybe 1-5fps on complex models.
Someone really knew what they were doing when they bought those systems. :roll:

Same with government agencies - they might not even think about power consumption in the purchasing process.

TPM= Trusted Platform Module, something I've yet to see offered as a integrated offering in a mainstream AMD system.
 

Cobolman

Member
Apr 18, 2006
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Realize it's been more than a few years since I was in the Air Force, but when I was there, it went like this...

First, there were giant contracts, the size of which could keep companies in business for years.

The problem was, the amount of time it took to hammer out a contract, which would always be *very* specific about requirements, meant that by the time a contract was completed, the pcs they specified were both underpowered and overpriced compared to the current market standard. And the entirety of the military was forced to buy off the contract. So, you were forced to pay twice as much for half the machine.

Eventually, just before I got out, I was boggled that they showed some sense and went to local contracts. Better machines for lower prices, but even so, it was probably a case of "You can't get fired for buying Intel".

Don't know how they do it today...but at least it's better than that one insane contract with Zenith used to be.
 

Twsmit

Senior member
Nov 30, 2003
925
0
76
People have to realize that AMD has not been a first class option until about 5 years ago.. and then even then its debatable if they were on the level of Intel up until maybe 2 and a half years ago.

AMD is at the mercy of 3rd party chipset manufacturers and also their reletive small size compared to Intel. We all need to remember that AMD had almost zero server offerings until Opteron, and before nvidia picked up the slack, Via and SiS were never as reliable or feature packed as an Intel chipset on an Intel processor.

AMD = great reputation since K-6 for enthusiasts and the home, but before Opteron they were the black sheep of the industry and with good reason for the most part. It was partly a case of "you wont get fired buying Intel" but its also very true that AMD has been spotty in the past with reliability and the "total package" something that is very important for big business.
 

ND40oz

Golden Member
Jul 31, 2004
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Originally posted by: WackyDan
TPM= Trusted Platform Module, something I've yet to see offered as a integrated offering in a mainstream AMD system.

nVidia trying to change that though, we'll see if it pans out. This is the problem when your processor manufacture doesn't produce it's own chipsets, you have to get several companies together to put together a TPM.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: Twsmit
People have to realize that AMD has not been a first class option until about 5 years ago.. and then even then its debatable if they were on the level of Intel up until maybe 2 and a half years ago.

AMD is at the mercy of 3rd party chipset manufacturers and also their reletive small size compared to Intel. We all need to remember that AMD had almost zero server offerings until Opteron, and before nvidia picked up the slack, Via and SiS were never as reliable or feature packed as an Intel chipset on an Intel processor.

AMD = great reputation since K-6 for enthusiasts and the home, but before Opteron they were the black sheep of the industry and with good reason for the most part. It was partly a case of "you wont get fired buying Intel" but its also very true that AMD has been spotty in the past with reliability and the "total package" something that is very important for big business.

AMD hasn't had a reliable AND performance platform until the Opteron. Before that, you got one or the other plus cheapness. Well, nforce2 was reliable and fast and cheap, but it was only a single processor system and still not business oriented.
 

Twsmit

Senior member
Nov 30, 2003
925
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Originally posted by: Fox5
Originally posted by: Twsmit
People have to realize that AMD has not been a first class option until about 5 years ago.. and then even then its debatable if they were on the level of Intel up until maybe 2 and a half years ago.

AMD is at the mercy of 3rd party chipset manufacturers and also their reletive small size compared to Intel. We all need to remember that AMD had almost zero server offerings until Opteron, and before nvidia picked up the slack, Via and SiS were never as reliable or feature packed as an Intel chipset on an Intel processor.

AMD = great reputation since K-6 for enthusiasts and the home, but before Opteron they were the black sheep of the industry and with good reason for the most part. It was partly a case of "you wont get fired buying Intel" but its also very true that AMD has been spotty in the past with reliability and the "total package" something that is very important for big business.

AMD hasn't had a reliable AND performance platform until the Opteron. Before that, you got one or the other plus cheapness. Well, nforce2 was reliable and fast and cheap, but it was only a single processor system and still not business oriented.

Yep, they did try the Athlon MP for servers, but it was usually tied to a 3rd party chipset. AMD did have its own chipset, the first to support DDR on the socket A platform, but AMD never inteded it to be a permanent solution.

Athlon MP was little more than response to the Pentium 3-S, didnt scale or really compete with Xeon. Opteron on the other hand is where AMD has been excelling. Its a server architecture they scale down for desktops in the form of A64, not like Intel who develops desktop chips and then mixes them up and relables as Xeon.
 

ForumMaster

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2005
7,797
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my dad has an AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ with a GeForce 440MX SE AGP with one GB of ram and the CAD apps he runs on it run better then the pentium 4 3.6 GHz ATI 9600XT dell he has at work. amd produces better and cheaper cpu's then intel. Fight the tyranny!
 

pkme2

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2005
3,896
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My 3 newest rigs are AMD. My main reason, AMD vs Intel, is more affordable. Its innovations over the years has benefitted us, and so I continue to support AMD.

The AMD Architecture design is future based and better suited for the economy minded like me. Somewhat, more bang for the buck. Competition has brought Intel CPUs down in price and AMDs were made for people like me and the masses.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: Twsmit
Originally posted by: Fox5
Originally posted by: Twsmit
People have to realize that AMD has not been a first class option until about 5 years ago.. and then even then its debatable if they were on the level of Intel up until maybe 2 and a half years ago.

AMD is at the mercy of 3rd party chipset manufacturers and also their reletive small size compared to Intel. We all need to remember that AMD had almost zero server offerings until Opteron, and before nvidia picked up the slack, Via and SiS were never as reliable or feature packed as an Intel chipset on an Intel processor.

AMD = great reputation since K-6 for enthusiasts and the home, but before Opteron they were the black sheep of the industry and with good reason for the most part. It was partly a case of "you wont get fired buying Intel" but its also very true that AMD has been spotty in the past with reliability and the "total package" something that is very important for big business.

AMD hasn't had a reliable AND performance platform until the Opteron. Before that, you got one or the other plus cheapness. Well, nforce2 was reliable and fast and cheap, but it was only a single processor system and still not business oriented.

Yep, they did try the Athlon MP for servers, but it was usually tied to a 3rd party chipset. AMD did have its own chipset, the first to support DDR on the socket A platform, but AMD never inteded it to be a permanent solution.

Athlon MP was little more than response to the Pentium 3-S, didnt scale or really compete with Xeon. Opteron on the other hand is where AMD has been excelling. Its a server architecture they scale down for desktops in the form of A64, not like Intel who develops desktop chips and then mixes them up and relables as Xeon.

Athlon MP had horrible performance.
It was limited to a 133mhz fsb (maybe the very final ones got 166mhz?).
It was tied down to archaic chipsets. Last I recall, the most commonly used multi cpu athlon platform (and the only one I know of actually) was AMD's chipset, which just didn't have performance on par with even VIA's platforms, let alone nforce2.

my dad has an AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ with a GeForce 440MX SE AGP with one GB of ram and the CAD apps he runs on it run better then the pentium 4 3.6 GHz ATI 9600XT dell he has at work. amd produces better and cheaper cpu's then intel. Fight the tyranny!

It shouldn't, unless the drivers on the work computer are way out of date or it has a pitiful amount of ram. (or is bogged down by crap software)
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,596
2
71
AMD has been around for as long as Intel (well, one year less) and has historically been a secondary supplier which allowed Intel to secure contracts where such was a preference if not requirement. Thus AMD profited in step with Intel. Once Intel had the volume capacity, AMD was no longer necessary -which was pretty much solidified with the split in compatible sockets. AMD still cannot match Intel for capacity so are less likely to be selected for volume contracts and even more so since they cannot supply all the core parts.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
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Originally posted by: Auric
AMD has been around for as long as Intel (well, one year less) and has historically been a secondary supplier which allowed Intel to secure contracts where such was a preference if not requirement. Thus AMD profited in step with Intel. Once Intel had the volume capacity, AMD was no longer necessary -which was pretty much solidified with the split in compatible sockets. AMD still cannot match Intel for capacity so are less likely to be selected for volume contracts and even more so since they cannot supply all the core parts.

AMD supplies around 20% of the x86 market by volume, certainly not an insignificant amount and it would be considered an extremely large percentage in just about any other market.

BTW, why don't we see more PC competitors? Surely it's not that hard to make hardware sufficient for what most people use, especially with Linux and Open Source to provide the software?
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Originally posted by: ND40oz
Originally posted by: WackyDan
TPM= Trusted Platform Module, something I've yet to see offered as a integrated offering in a mainstream AMD system.

nVidia trying to change that though, we'll see if it pans out. This is the problem when your processor manufacture doesn't produce it's own chipsets, you have to get several companies together to put together a TPM.

TPM isn't part of the chipset though - least not yet.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Originally posted by: Fox5
Originally posted by: Auric

AMD supplies around 20% of the x86 market by volume, certainly not an insignificant amount and it would be considered an extremely large percentage in just about any other market.

BTW, why don't we see more PC competitors? Surely it's not that hard to make hardware sufficient for what most people use, especially with Linux and Open Source to provide the software?

PC's are essentially a commodity, especially in the corporate environment, but also in the home as well. This includes both desktop and laptop. Any time you have a commodity product, there's very little to differentiate one manufacturer from the next besides price. PC's have also become a low margin product due to that comodity play, so it's very risky to be in the PC business, unless you can move the volumes of product neccessary to be profitable.