AMD Confirms, Zen On Track For Q4 2016 Availability On High-End Desktops

[ElFenix]

They did. It was a time where you paid out the nose for performance CPUs.

I remember what that was like. But prices would have gone even higher if Intel wasn't illegally paying several vendors to buy up Pentium 4s. What did it turn out to be, all of dell's profits for several years were those kickbacks, which dell had to restate on its books?

 

[Vortex6700]

AMD did have the best CPUs in the past, and they still didn't get the server market. A monopoly can easily keep superior products off the market.

It's not a monopoly, it's a company with a dominant market position. Otherwise, you are correct.

It's like firearm legislation in the US, in that there are plenty of laws but none are enforced. Intel can and has broken anticompetition laws in the u and eu, and has proven they can do so for no more than a nominal fine any time they want.

In such an environment, no company would benefit from spending $$ to make the better product.

I am with most of the others on this board in thinking AMD BOD are incompetent, but pretending Intel has ever competed fairly is assinine.

 

[mrmt]

If anything it has been Intel forcing down prices. Last time AMD were in front even their basic dual core A64 X2 was really expensive, and the high end athlons were silly expensive - amazing for gaming but out of my price range. It's why I only owned a pentium 4 C - the 2.4C o/c to 3.2 and was at the time the best value for decent performance (nothing like as fast as the athlons however in games).

People confuse AMD inability to raise prices with AMD having natural cost advantages over Intel. In reality Intel has much better scale than Globalfoundries will ever have and Intel can spread their R&D costs in one or two orders of magnitude more chips than AMD. If Intel wanted, or needed, Intel could push market prices to levels way below AMD capacity to survive and still wouldn't be broken.

In fact, Intel has been doing that since Conroe, meaning bleeding AMD dry in a price war AMD cannot afford to wage. AMD just made their life worse with Bulldozer and the rest of the CMT chips, but even if AMD had fielded a competent architecture they wouldn't have had an easy time against Intel, just like Conroe wiped out Barcelona from OEMs and Bay Trail wiped out the cat family.

The current low prices on the CPU market are Intel's making and strategy, were AMD in a position to shape the prices on the market, prices would be higher, far higher in fact.

 

[frozentundra123456]

It's not a monopoly, it's a company with a dominant market position. Otherwise, you are correct.

It's like firearm legislation in the US, in that there are plenty of laws but none are enforced. Intel can and has broken anticompetition laws in the u and eu, and has proven they can do so for no more than a nominal fine any time they want.

In such an environment, no company would benefit from spending $$ to make the better product.

I am with most of the others on this board in thinking AMD BOD are incompetent, but pretending Intel has ever competed fairly is assinine.

Documentation of these allegations?????

 

[stuff_me_good]

Remember Lisa Su with a straight face, telling people Fury was an overclockers dream?

I'm sorry but Su didn't say anything about fury overclocking. Get your facts straight or shut up.

 

[NTMBK]

People confuse AMD inability to raise prices with AMD having natural cost advantages over Intel. In reality Intel has much better scale than Globalfoundries will ever have and Intel can spread their R&D costs in one or two orders of magnitude more chips than AMD. If Intel wanted, or needed, Intel could push market prices to levels way below AMD capacity to survive and still wouldn't be broken.

In fact, Intel has been doing that since Conroe, meaning bleeding AMD dry in a price war AMD cannot afford to wage. AMD just made their life worse with Bulldozer and the rest of the CMT chips, but even if AMD had fielded a competent architecture they wouldn't have had an easy time against Intel, just like Conroe wiped out Barcelona from OEMs and Bay Trail wiped out the cat family.

The current low prices on the CPU market are Intel's making and strategy, were AMD in a position to shape the prices on the market, prices would be higher, far higher in fact.

Yup, that's one reason they had to spin off their foundries- they didn't have the volume to compete as an IDM. Supposedly an independent GloFo could drum up enough custom to compete with Intel's fab R&D, but that's not exactly panned out so far...

 

[Vortex6700]

Documentation of these allegations?????

Here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc._v._Intel_Corp.

Contents:
1991 antitrust lawsuit AMD vs INTEL: Court ruled against INTEL
2009 Korea Fair Trade Commission Fined Intel et. al for forming a cartel
2009 AMD sued intel for paying customers not to buy AMD : Court Ruled for AMD

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-intel-court-eu-idUSKBN0EN0M120140612

Contents:
2009 EU Fines Intel 1.06 Billion euro ($1.44B) for offering rebates to those refusing to do business with AMD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#Lawsuits

Contents:
2005 JAP forces intel to cease rebates for businesses refusing to work with AMD
2008 South Korea fines Intel $25M for the rebate scam (same as above)
2010 Dell settles with the SEC for $100M for hiding the agreement with intel to receive rebates for not doing business with AMD


Trust, noun: a large company that has or attempts to gain monopolistic control of a market.

 

[sm625]

Same with Skylake, guess what these 2 have in common that the SB/IB doesn't 🙂

Besides instructions they got this:

That L1 cache bandwidth! This is the metric that Zen has to beat. If Zen cannot hit 600 GB/sec L1 cache write and twice that number for L1 cache read, then it is going to be a flop. I can only assume that AMD has known this very clearly since 2011 when bulldozer was released. You cannot make a modular design and expect to have the highest cache performance. The core has to be designed from the bottom up with cache performance in mind.

 

[Burpo]

I'm sorry but Su didn't say anything about fury overclocking. Get your facts straight or shut up.

Indeed, it was AMD CTO Joe Macri..
" You’ll be able to overclock this thing like no tomorrow,” AMD CTO Joe Macri says. “This is an overclocker’s dream.”

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2936...fury-graphics-cards-new-r300-series-gpus.html

He says it here, starting at 1:02.43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MEgJLvoP2U

 

[Dresdenboy]

Indeed, it was AMD CTO Joe Macri..
" You’ll be able to overclock this thing like no tomorrow,” AMD CTO Joe Macri says. “This is an overclocker’s dream.”

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2936...fury-graphics-cards-new-r300-series-gpus.html

Wasn't there some initial driver issue?

That L1 cache bandwidth! This is the metric that Zen has to beat. If Zen cannot hit 600 GB/sec L1 cache write and twice that number for L1 cache read, then it is going to be a flop. I can only assume that AMD has known this very clearly since 2011 when bulldozer was released. You cannot make a modular design and expect to have the highest cache performance. The core has to be designed from the bottom up with cache performance in mind.

Zen won't beat that L1 B/W at half the interface width. Small core and many well clocked of them in a power envelope might be the plan for any HPC/high throughput stuff.

 

[Unoid]

It's not a monopoly, it's a company with a dominant market position. Otherwise, you are correct.

It's like firearm legislation in the US, in that there are plenty of laws but none are enforced. Intel can and has broken anticompetition laws in the u and eu, and has proven they can do so for no more than a nominal fine any time they want.

In such an environment, no company would benefit from spending $$ to make the better product.

I am with most of the others on this board in thinking AMD BOD are incompetent, but pretending Intel has ever competed fairly is assinine.

As an Economics Ph.D student I'd disagree that Intel is not an x86 CPU monopoly.

It's not even close to an oligopoly because in the Desktop/laptop market is 80%+ Intel and has only gotten more dominant.

The US Gov won't dare try to break Intel up however, not when our supercomputers utilize their CPU's

 

[ShintaiDK]

Wasn't there some initial driver issue.

Feel free to prove its an overclockers dream that will overclock like no tormorrow. Or drop the driver excuse and whatever else excuse that may follow 🙂

No it was nothing more than the usual blatant lie from a Corporate VP. CTO as well in this case.

 

[Unoid]

Indeed, it was AMD CTO Joe Macri..
" You’ll be able to overclock this thing like no tomorrow,” AMD CTO Joe Macri says. “This is an overclocker’s dream.”

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2936...fury-graphics-cards-new-r300-series-gpus.html

He says it here, starting at 1:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MEgJLvoP2U

He was still 1/2 right. in a memory bandwidth viewpoint, you can really get huge numbers just from small OC incrememnts. Not that it helps it much.

 

[Vortex6700]

As an Economics Ph.D student I'd disagree that Intel is not an x86 CPU monopoly.

It's not even close to an oligopoly because in the Desktop/laptop market is 80%+ Intel and has only gotten more dominant.

The US Gov won't dare try to break Intel up however, not when our supercomputers utilize their CPU's

You would know better than I, but I still call it a trust, since everyone's argument is that AMD's existence makes Intel not a monopoly.

Considering their cyrix boondoggle, their decades of AMD tomfoolery, their ME and ProV hooliganisms, and their compiler shenanigans, I would also say they are one of the shadiest trusts that exists today.

This is why many of us are AMD "diehards"

 

[The Stilt]

He was still 1/2 right. in a memory bandwidth viewpoint, you can really get huge numbers just from small OC incrememnts. Not that it helps it much.

Memory overclocking on Fury was blocked since day one. It is possible only with 3rd party tools 😉

 

[MrTeal]

Memory overclocking on Fury was blocked since day one. It is possible only with 3rd party tools 😉

Fury X is an overclocker's dream, much as my torrid tryst with Scarlett Johansson remains naught but a dream.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Feel free to prove its an overclockers dream that will overclock like no tormorrow. Or drop the driver excuse and whatever else excuse that may follow 🙂

No it was nothing more than the usual blatant lie from a Corporate VP. CTO as well in this case.

Sorry, just forgot the question mark. Fixed. 🙂

And why am I responsible to find excuses?

 

[monstercameron]

Sorry, just forgot the question mark. Fixed. 🙂

And why am I responsible to find excuses?

An overclockers dream. On ln2 it clocks pretty high.

 

[raghu78]

The error being a loyal fan to a company. Only a fool would do that.

so says the biggest Intel worshipper on anandtech forums. 😀

 

[Arachnotronic]

so says the biggest Intel worshipper on anandtech forums. 😀

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You used to promote AMD quite aggressively all across the Internet 😉

 

[maddie]

Actually the Fury X CARD is an overclockers dream for a stock item. Water cooling, stout power circuitry. He just failed to mention that you couldn't access to GPU to actually overclock to any significant degree.

A big failure in communication.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc._v._Intel_Corp.

Contents:
1991 antitrust lawsuit AMD vs INTEL: Court ruled against INTEL
2009 Korea Fair Trade Commission Fined Intel et. al for forming a cartel
2009 AMD sued intel for paying customers not to buy AMD : Court Ruled for AMD

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-intel-court-eu-idUSKBN0EN0M120140612

Contents:
2009 EU Fines Intel 1.06 Billion euro ($1.44B) for offering rebates to those refusing to do business with AMD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel#Lawsuits

Contents:
2005 JAP forces intel to cease rebates for businesses refusing to work with AMD
2008 South Korea fines Intel $25M for the rebate scam (same as above)
2010 Dell settles with the SEC for $100M for hiding the agreement with intel to receive rebates for not doing business with AMD


Trust, noun: a large company that has or attempts to gain monopolistic control of a market.

The point i was making is that according to you intel is still doing this. Your links are at least 5 years or more old.

 

[Vortex6700]

The point i was making is that according to you intel is still doing this. Your links are at least 5 years or more old.

There are plenty of credible allegations against them, but they haven't been proven yet.

These cases regarding actions taken as early as 2003 closed in 2009-10, and No one actually got Intel for the amount of money they intended.

Therefore:

1. If these actions are happening, it could be as many as 6 years afterwards that we even heard about them.

2. No one is going to go after them anymore (except maybe the EU), as there is no way to win enough to cover the costs of the suit.

What a fraudulent attempt at defending a company that has caused more quantifiable harm to the industry than they have made from it.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

The hideous, Joker-grinning irony of all this is that if some people had been less greedy, we could all have much more. Otellini, Ruiz, all sorts of corruption at the top. If they weren't so interested in lining their own pockets, if they didn't keep screwing with the markets (Intel) and their own internal finances (AMD under Ruiz), just imagine where we'd be now.

Everything is a slave to Mammon 🙁 I am getting so tired of this world.

 

[Vortex6700]

The hideous, Joker-grinning irony of all this is that if some people had been less greedy, we could all have much more. Otellini, Ruiz, all sorts of corruption at the top. If they weren't so interested in lining their own pockets, if they didn't keep screwing with the markets (Intel) and their own internal finances (AMD under Ruiz), just imagine where we'd be now.

Everything is a slave to Mammon 🙁 I am getting so tired of this world.

That was dark, and a little too nihilistic for my tastes.

The absolute failure of the modern customer to be a responsible consumer and consider the the ethics of a company before purchasing from them is far worse than a greedy few.

Apple didn't pay millions to legal teams to keep patent holders from successfully suing for them genuinely stealing ideas, the apple fanboy did.

The fault for the current situation we find ourselves in rests solely on the shoulders of people like ShintaiDK.

Edit- Conjecture on my part in assuming why ShintaiDK is a fanboy.