Discussion AMD confirms its Radeon RX 5000, 6000 series cards are not receiving new features

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DAPUNISHER

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Which game in the last 2 years did you need to download a launch day driver for a 5000/6000 series card?
I always install the latest drivers for all of my cards. On some of my systems I do betas too. They already look like they are failing to optimize for one of their most popular series at times, requiring a fix -
  • Corruption may appear while playing Mafia: The Old Country on Radeon™ RX 6600 series graphics products.
Let's see how they handle issues like that moving forward. And how prevalent they are.
I wouldn't expect FSR4 to be more than a permanent beta for RDNA2, regardless of driver status.
Your expectations may let them off the hook, mine don't. I read comments like yours about supporting Zen 3 on older chipsets. Enough drama got that resolved. Meaning there is precedence for making AMD do the most consumer friendly thing when they don't want to.

Some seem okay with what AMD is doing, I am not. I've read everything that has happened so far, and if they stick to their latest policy, I will be buying Nvidia and/or Intel instead next time around.
 

bba-tcg

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Really, they just said the quiet part out loud. Just because a card is included in a driver release does not mean it has any optimizations. Nvidia has supported the GTX 970 for years, but I'm sure it's also been years since it received any optimizations.
 

GaiaHunter

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I always install the latest drivers for all of my cards. On some of my systems I do betas too. They already look like they are failing to optimize for one of their most popular series at times, requiring a fix -
  • Corruption may appear while playing Mafia: The Old Country on Radeon™ RX 6600 series graphics products.
Let's see how they handle issues like that moving forward. And how prevalent they are.

Your expectations may let them off the hook, mine don't. I read comments like yours about supporting Zen 3 on older chipsets. Enough drama got that resolved. Meaning there is precedence for making AMD do the most consumer friendly thing when they don't want to.

Some seem okay with what AMD is doing, I am not. I've read everything that has happened so far, and if they stick to their latest policy, I will be buying Nvidia and/or Intel instead next time around.
That is a bug fix, not game optimization. Maintenance mode includes bug fixes and security flaw fixes.

With the motherboard you getting a potential upgrade.

With the driver moving from active development to maintenance, what are you losing?
When was the last time you saw a driver saying the 6800xt performance increased by up to 5% in game X? 2021? 2022?
What you think you are losing has already been gone for a long time, as it should. Graphic cards should know how to use their resources properly.
 
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bba-tcg

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why does it need to move to maintennce mode when the cards with RDNA2 were still selling brand new in 2022?



its standard practice to notify customers when support is decreasing. Nvidia and Intel do the same
Support isn't really decreasing. It's getting the same level of support it's been getting for a while. If there's nothing new for a card but it's still included in the drivers, such as the GTX 970 has been, it just gives a different impression. AMD should've worded it differently from the start.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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If it's the quiet part out loud, they should have STFU but kept the cards in the full support drivers. The way Nvidia does. This is a PR disaster. The optics were bad for Vega still being sold as mobile when it went out of full support. The is even uglier.

I've spent over 90% of my money with AMD both for myself and numerous clients since the late 90s. I have expectations as a result. I walked away from them as a GPU maker over my preorder RX 5700XT. Perhaps the worst experience I've ever had with a graphics card; an absolute disaster. Bought RTX for 2 generations before giving them another chance.

Another problem I have is it hurts resale value. I hope one of you cats that think this is perfectly fine, buy my card when I sell it. :p

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
 

bba-tcg

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If it's the quiet part out loud, they should have STFU but kept the cards in the full support drivers. The way Nvidia does. This is a PR disaster. The optics were bad for Vega still being sold as mobile when it went out of full support. The is even uglier.

I've spent over 90% of my money with AMD both for myself and numerous clients since the late 90s. I have expectations as a result. I walked away from them as a GPU maker over my preorder RX 5700XT. Perhaps the worst experience I've ever had with a graphics card; an absolute disaster. Bought RTX for 2 generations before giving them another chance.

Another problem I have is it hurts resale value. I hope one of you cats that think this is perfectly fine, buy my card when I sell it. :p

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that they put their foot in their mouth by moving it to maintenance when they could've done it the way nvidia does it instead.
 
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poke01

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Support isn't really decreasing. It's getting the same level of support it's been getting for a while. If there's nothing new for a card but it's still included in the drivers, such as the GTX 970 has been, it just gives a different impression. AMD should've worded it differently from the start.
I disagree as drivers are just more than just game optimisations. Nvidia has updated the GTX 970 with Vulkan 1.4 meanwhile AMDs RX 580 is still stuck on 1.3 while other recent RDNA cards are 1.4.

Now ones might argue does it matter to 99% of users and the answer is no but its clear that one company offers better support for older hardware on windows.

1762052272968.pngJust take a look at this post.
 

bba-tcg

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I disagree as drivers are just more than just game optimisations. Nvidia has updated the GTX 970 with Vulkan 1.4 meanwhile AMDs RX 580 is still stuck on 1.3 while other recent RDNA cards are 1.4.

Now ones might argue does it matter to 99% of users and the answer is no but its clear that one company offers better support for older hardware on windows.

View attachment 133026Just take a look at this post.
I've already stated several times that I think it was a poor, not well thought out, decision. But it didn't really change the support so much as give bad optics. Of course, I say this while owning mainly recent AMD cards. I have more nvidia cards than AMD and have nothing against nvidia other than that they're misers as to giving vram.
 

mikeymikec

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I wonder what nvidia's support is like for GeForce 700 series cards now, considering *they're still selling them*.
 

GaiaHunter

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I walked away from them as a GPU maker over my preorder RX 5700XT. Perhaps the worst experience I've ever had with a graphics card; an absolute disaster. Bought RTX for 2 generations before giving them another chance.

Another problem I have is it hurts resale value. I hope one of you cats that think this is perfectly fine, buy my card when I sell it. :p
I had some problems with the 5700xt with multi monitor setups. It got fixed after a while.
9070xt on the other hand has been working flawlessly.

6800xts are still going for £300+ on the used market. Way too expensive to drop on the systems that are very occasionally used for gaming and too close in price to new 9060xt 16gb.
 

DAPUNISHER

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Full disclosure: I get spicy about anti consumer corpo BS. Which this is. It may not be super cereal, but it isn't pro consumer either.

I think we have to hold their feet to the fire, and force better decisions when we can. That said; None of this will directly impact me. Red Devil 9070XT is my main gamer. I can always stop dual booting and make the 6800 a fully dedicated Linux gamer.
 

Hans Gruber

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Full disclosure: I get spicy about anti consumer corpo BS. Which this is. It may not be super cereal, but it isn't pro consumer either.

I think we have to hold their feet to the fire, and force better decisions when we can. That said; None of this will directly impact me. Red Devil 9070XT is my main gamer. I can always stop dual booting and make the 6800 a fully dedicated Linux gamer.
Can you under volt your 9070XT to get 200-225w while gaming? I know the standard 9070 is a the power saver and the 9070XT is juiced for performance.
 

GaiaHunter

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Full disclosure: I get spicy about anti consumer corpo BS. Which this is. It may not be super cereal, but it isn't pro consumer either.

I think we have to hold their feet to the fire, and force better decisions when we can. That said; None of this will directly impact me. Red Devil 9070XT is my main gamer. I can always stop dual booting and make the 6800 a fully dedicated Linux gamer.
Except this is a misunderstanding of how this process work rather than be a crazy anti consumer bullshit.

The ability to install the drivers that are optimizing new games for RDNA4 doesn't mean RDNA1 and RDNA2 are actually benefitting from them.

At some points it actually breaks older cards.
If you want to play with FSR4 with your 6800xt you need an older driver. How can that be if these drivers were being optimized for RDNA2?

And the new features being pushed by developers these days are ray tracing and AI stuff, which RDNA1 lacks and RDNA2 is anemic on a hardware level. Even RDNA3 is quite gimped in that field compared to RDNA4.

When a game relies on raster performance the 6800xt slaps the 9060xt around and it isn't because AMD driver team is spending more time optimizing for RDNA2 than RDNA4.
 

DAPUNISHER

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DAPUNISHER

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Aussie Steve with a more matter of fact response.

 

Bigos

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The guy that writes release notes used the internal language without the filter. Enough to generate drama. Sure, they worded it... poorly. But talking about "backtracking" and "bullshit response" now is actually stupid. This reminds me not to watch tech YouTubers at all because they have no morals. They cannot bestow information without playing with the viewer feelings.

The ability to keep an older branch for some GPUs is actually allowed by more software devs. On the other hand, some optional features might not come to the legacy branch. We will need to see how they tackle that.
 
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DAPUNISHER

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Shooting the messenger, what a surprise.
 

Shmee

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On the subject of the RX 5000 series, I am hoping that they will be at least somewhat supported for a while. Granted, I have a 7900XTX in my main comp, and my 5700XT is an older card now, but it checks out. xD

IMO the 5700XT is still a great card for it's time. I have it in my mATX travel/LAN computer. I bring the comp to Quakecon in a Pelican case just about every year of recent, and since I am borrowing a basic monitor and often playing older games as well, I don't need the latest and fastest of GPUs for it.

Also this particular model, the Sapphire Nitro, was a very good, efficient ETH miner, back when that mattered. I settled on 50MH/s at around 90W. That was pretty darn good for a while.
 

GaiaHunter

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What is the value of a day 0 game ready driver for a 3+ year old architecture.

Until that is measured you can either believe AMD that it doesn't really impact gamers or you can believe those that say it is the single most important thing in the world.

Because one thing is for sure - none of what AMD said since is a reversal.
So either AMD believes that those older cards don't really need optimisations or they don't care.
 
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mikeymikec

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The guy that writes release notes used the internal language without the filter. Enough to generate drama. Sure, they worded it... poorly. But talking about "backtracking" and "bullshit response" now is actually stupid. This reminds me not to watch tech YouTubers at all because they have no morals. They cannot bestow information without playing with the viewer feelings.

I haven't watched the GN video, but judging by the thumbnail the author was thinking exactly what I was thinking when I read the press release. It *is* utter bullshit and gaslighting behaviour for AMD to talk about "confusion".

The only time a company should be talking about "confusion" is when the company's communications have been ambiguous *and* the company is apologising for not presenting a specific and consistent message. What AMD did here however was to use specific wording in the hope that they could get away with their attempt to lower users' expectations for product support, then when they realised they weren't going to get away with it, they backtracked and claimed that the users were "confused".

Specific wording, such as the word "maintenance": From the word "maintain", it means to keep something in a consistent state, to protect it from failure. Maintenance does not involve upgrading the product in any way, it's a necessary job that is not enjoyed in a capitalistic setting but an unfortunately necessary duty until it is deemed unnecessary, because capitalists want people to buy new products rather than use old ones forever.

In the context of graphics driver design, maintenance *could* be construed to mean that if a new game comes along during the "maintenance" phase of a product and that game won't even run, then that would be considered to be a fault that needs correcting and so qualify as "maintenance", but there are plenty of potential scenarios that result in suboptimal performance and so not qualify as "maintenance" because that would be improving a product rather than just maintaining it. Such decisions could then come down to how much the decision-makers are thinking about "the bottom line" rather than customer service, and the consistency of the decisions could change depending on how the key decision maker is feeling that day.

So while the word "maintenance" has a lot of potential wiggle room, I highly doubt that even the most optimistic and naive AMD fan is going to construe:

"In order to focus on optimizing and delivering new and improved technologies for the latest GPUs, AMD Software Adrenalin Edition 25.10.2 places Radeon RX 5000 series and RX 6000 series graphics cards (RDNA 1 and RDNA 2) in maintenance mode,"

to mean:

"Your Radeon RX 5000 and RX 6000 series GPUs will continue to receive:

Game support for new releases
Stability and game optimizations
Security and bug fixes"

Because the difference between those two statements is virtually night and day.

Yeah, the release note writer :)
If you want to believe that some random person in the driver dev department has sole responsibility to determine the support phases for a billion-dollar company's products, that's entirely on you.
 

GaiaHunter

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Facts:
1. AMD put RDNA1 & 2 are in maintenence mode.
2. Most people don't understand how GPU drivers work.
3. People are hoping FSR4 comes to RDNA2 & 3 in an official capacity.

Conclusions:
Because of 1 and 2, people surmised that the next new game that comes out their 5000 and/or 6000 series won't be able to play it or their performance is going to be crippled compared to NVIDIA equivalents.

Because of 1 and 3, people surmised the likelihood of FSR4 being officially supported by 6000 series cards is close to nil.

Reality:
First conclusion is wrong (and if a game doesn't work because of non-hardware requirements, it will be a bug and maintenence deals with bugs).
Second conclusion is almost certainly right. (only hope is it being bundled within FSR Redstone)