AMD chipset + AHCI => No SMART?

[coolVariable]

I recently put together a new AMD build.
This included a new motherboard (AMD 790GMH + 750SB).
Having gotten a bunch of new HDDs (including 2 1.5TB Seagates) I obviously want to monitor the SMART (S.M.A.R.T.) info for all the HDDs.

BUT WHAT THE F****?!?!

AMD's soutbridge doesn't allow any programs to read SMART info from the harddrives when AHCI is enable, i.e. when the AMD AHCI drivers are installed.

Googling the issues there seems to be NO SOLUTION!
And this is a persistent issue since the 600SB?!?

What kind of unbelievable f-up is that?

I like AMD (even have some stock) but this seems to me as if they are hell-bent on DRIVING CUSTOMERS AWAY!!!!

 

[lopri]

Use native Windows AHCI drivers? I didn't know AMD AHCI drivers disables SMART readings. But I know Windows drivers work just fine w/ AHCI & SMART.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: lopri
Use native Windows AHCI drivers? I didn't know AMD AHCI drivers disables SMART readings. But I know Windows drivers work just fine w/ AHCI & SMART.

The performance under the windows drivers is really, really bad.

 

[tcsenter]

Certainly not limited to AMD:

Workaround for missing SMART info for nVIDIA chipsets under Vista

Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H Thread (NVIDIA 9400) (scroll down to post #112 by Klaus_1250)

AHCI and SMART (Intel P965)

Intel Matrix Storage Manager FAQ - Can't view S.M.A.R.T. values of hard drive after setting up RAID


Looks like the developer of SpeedFan acquired an AMD SB750 board to investigate: No SMART monitoring for SATA drives on SB750 in AHCI mode


Have you tried SMART Monitoring Tools for Windows?

 

[soccerballtux]

I am running AHCI mode on my 790X and smartctl (a program) works fine...

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Certainly not limited to AMD:

Workaround for missing SMART info for nVIDIA chipsets under Vista

Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H Thread (NVIDIA 9400) (scroll down to post #112 by Klaus_1250)

AHCI and SMART (Intel P965)

Intel Matrix Storage Manager FAQ - Can't view S.M.A.R.T. values of hard drive after setting up RAID


Looks like the developer of SpeedFan acquired an AMD SB750 board to investigate: No SMART monitoring for SATA drives on SB750 in AHCI mode


Have you tried SMART Monitoring Tools for Windows?

I will try SMART Monitoring Tools, although I don't see how that program can pull the info if it is disabled by the driver.

FYI - it is (almost) always impossible to view SMART for RAID arrays ... so it seems the intel chipsets are NOT affected. It's only AMD and that NVIDIA chipset.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I am running AHCI mode on my 790X and smartctl (a program) works fine...

Windows AHCI drivers? Take a look at your CPU performance - the Windows AMD AHCI drivers are pretty bad.

 

[coolVariable]

From ASRock support (very quick turnaround), when I asked about enabling SMART with AHCI and whether they would assume liability for dataloss if it is not possible to enable.

Dear ASRock
AMD's southbridge doesn't allow any programs to read SMART info from the harddrives when AHCI is enable, i.e. when the AMD AHCI drivers are installed.
If you considered you need someone assume liability ,please refer yourself to AMD and summit your issue.
You have only one option either enabled AHCI or SMART function.

ASRock America Support

I wonder if I can force them to accept a return of the CPU/mobo at newegg, since that is not acceptable in my opinion?
Should have definitely gone with an intel CPU + mobo.
AMD svcks big time.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
I am running AHCI mode on my 790X and smartctl (a program) works fine...

no smart info with AMD AHCI drivers.
This does not work for me - see below.
AMD's RAIDExpert does not allow me to turn SMART info on or off under settings (I only can turn write caching and NCQ on/off) - it just says healthy under info.

C:\Program Files\smartmontools\bin>smartctl -a /dev/hda
smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-nt6.1] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Momentus 7200.2
Device Model: ST9100821AS
Serial Number: [No Information Found]
Firmware Version: 3.CM
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 3
ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is: Mon Jul 13 19:35:58 2009 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Disabled

SMART Disabled. Use option -s with argument 'on' to enable it.

C:\Program Files\smartmontools\bin>smartctl --smart=on --offlineauto=on --saveau
to=on /dev/hda
smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-nt6.1] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF ENABLE/DISABLE COMMANDS SECTION ===
SMART Enabled.
SMART Disabled. Use option -s with argument 'on' to enable it.

C:\Program Files\smartmontools\bin>smartctl -a /dev/hda
smartctl version 5.38 [i686-mingw32-nt6.1] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen
Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Momentus 7200.2
Device Model: ST9100821AS
Serial Number: [No Information Found]
Firmware Version: 3.CM
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 3
ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is: Mon Jul 13 19:35:58 2009 PDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
Enabled status cached by OS, trying SMART RETURN STATUS cmd.
SMART support is: Disabled

SMART Disabled. Use option -s with argument 'on' to enable it.

Also tried the latest Beta of Speedfan - no dice.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
The performance under the windows drivers is really, really bad.

How much better the performance is, using AMD's drivers? Does it just 'feel' better or is it reproducible? I have been using Windows AHCI drivers under Windows 7 and it feels alright. I checked the driver version in Win 7, and it's the same one as in Vista. (dated 6/21/2006)

 

[tcsenter]

Have you tried single-disk RAID mode? How is the performance of AMD's RAID driver?

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: coolVariable
The performance under the windows drivers is really, really bad.

How much better the performance is, using AMD's drivers? Does it just 'feel' better or is it reproducible? I have been using Windows AHCI drivers under Windows 7 and it feels alright. I checked the driver version in Win 7, and it's the same one as in Vista. (dated 6/21/2006)

For one - the AMD drivers don't hit the CPU. the win7 drivers do.
if you google it, you will find a nice overview of the performance for the various drivers.
disk performance might be ok, but I don't find it acceptable to need 15%-20% of the CPU for 'disk access'.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Have you tried single-disk RAID mode? How is the performance of AMD's RAID driver?

It's not a RAID setup!
Just plain AHCI!

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: coolVariable

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: coolVariable
The performance under the windows drivers is really, really bad.

How much better the performance is, using AMD's drivers? Does it just 'feel' better or is it reproducible? I have been using Windows AHCI drivers under Windows 7 and it feels alright. I checked the driver version in Win 7, and it's the same one as in Vista. (dated 6/21/2006)

For one - the AMD drivers don't hit the CPU. the win7 drivers do.
if you google it, you will find a nice overview of the performance for the various drivers.
disk performance might be ok, but I don't find it acceptable to need 15%-20% of the CPU for 'disk access'.

Holy smokes. If I wanted to raid something is this what the cost is going to be?

I guess I haven't been using the AHCI drivers. I'm using AHCI, but I don't have a raid or anything.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
if you google it, you will find a nice overview of the performance for the various drivers.
disk performance might be ok, but I don't find it acceptable to need 15%-20% of the CPU for 'disk access'.

If AHCI causes high CPU usage, then who needs it. I use IDE mode, although if I wanted to enable RAID on my ICH9R I would have to use AHCI mode too, I guess.

 

[wiak]

use windows ahci drivers, they preform better than amds own, regardless of cpu usage

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
It's not a RAID setup!
Just plain AHCI!

I realize that, but drives can be setup as single disks in RAID mode. Intel even recommends RAID mode over AHCI:

"If you are using a SATA hard drive, the best option is to set your BIOS to RAID mode. RAID mode provides the greatest overall flexibility and upgradeability because it allows your system to be RAID-Ready and also enables AHCI."

 

[lopri]

As tcsenter mentioned above this issue doesn't look like chipset specific in that 1) Windows AHCI works with SMART, and 2) There are other chipsets with similar issues. For the record I have not observed irregular CPU usage w/ Windows AHCI drivers, either, though admittedly with a quad-core CPU it's probably not noticeable.

No offense but you have been changing the goal posts in this thread: Your first subject was AHCI not working with SMART, which was only partially true since Windows AHCI and SMART get along fine. Then you brought up bad performance using Windows AHCI drivers, which is also not substantiated. Finally you changed the subject to high CPU usage under Windows drivers instead of bad performance, and I honestly can't attest to that either. Personally I prefer Windows AHCI drivers to AMD's drivers for compatibility reasons, and while I didn't compare them directly, the performance under Windows AHCI was within my expectation. Have you actually tried using Windows AHCI drivers? It's one thing someone says this or that, and another you see for yourself.

Although SB750 is not as sophisticated as ICH10R, but there is no practical difference on vast majority of usage scenarios. (and ICHR has its own list of issues as well) Only thing that's noticeable to end-users is its USB performance, which is quite slow compared to that of Intel's or NV's. I think that is a big deal, and AMD should fix it ASAP. But I'm digressing..

In any case, I noticed that AMD had released new drivers recently. (dated 6/15/2009) Maybe you can give it a go unless you have done already?

http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: lopri
As tcsenter mentioned above this issue doesn't look like chipset specific in that 1) Windows AHCI works with SMART, and 2) There are other chipsets with similar issues. For the record I have not observed irregular CPU usage w/ Windows AHCI drivers, either, though admittedly with a quad-core CPU it's probably not noticeable.

No offense but you have been changing the goal posts in this thread: Your first subject was AHCI not working with SMART, which was only partially true since Windows AHCI and SMART get along fine. Then you brought up bad performance using Windows AHCI drivers, which is also not substantiated. Finally you changed the subject to high CPU usage under Windows drivers instead of bad performance, and I honestly can't attest to that either. Personally I prefer Windows AHCI drivers to AMD's drivers for compatibility reasons, and while I didn't compare them directly, the performance under Windows AHCI was within my expectation. Have you actually tried using Windows AHCI drivers? It's one thing someone says this or that, and another you see for yourself.

Although SB750 is not as sophisticated as ICH10R, but there is no practical difference on vast majority of usage scenarios. (and ICHR has its own list of issues as well) Only thing that's noticeable to end-users is its USB performance, which is quite slow compared to that of Intel's or NV's. I think that is a big deal, and AMD should fix it ASAP. But I'm digressing..

In any case, I noticed that AMD had released new drivers recently. (dated 6/15/2009) Maybe you can give it a go unless you have done already?

http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx

No - I am actually looking for someone to be helpful which so far few people have been in this thread.
Instead everybody seems to in a mood to argue that this is not an issue.

Are you honestly telling me that I should use the Vista/Win7 AHCI drivers, despite those providing HORRIBLE performance??
REALLY THAT IS YOUR SOLUTION!?!?!?!

PLEASE STOP POSTING IN THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE NOT HELPING

I came looking for help because the AMD AHCI/RAID drivers seem to be the only drivers offering decent performance BUT THEY BLOCK/DISABLE SMART.

Option #1: BAD performance but SMART enabled.
Option #2: GOOD performance but SMART disabled!

I would like GOOD performance with SMART enabled.

 

[lopri]

Let me remind you of your original post.

Originally posted by: coolVariable
I recently put together a new AMD build.
This included a new motherboard (AMD 790GMH + 750SB).
Having gotten a bunch of new HDDs (including 2 1.5TB Seagates) I obviously want to monitor the SMART (S.M.A.R.T.) info for all the HDDs.

BUT WHAT THE F****?!?!

AMD's soutbridge doesn't allow any programs to read SMART info from the harddrives when AHCI is enable, i.e. when the AMD AHCI drivers are installed.

Googling the issues there seems to be NO SOLUTION!
And this is a persistent issue since the 600SB?!?

What kind of unbelievable f-up is that?

I like AMD (even have some stock) but this seems to me as if they are hell-bent on DRIVING CUSTOMERS AWAY!!!!

I don't see anywhere your statement regarding seeking help. Despite that, all participants in this thread have been trying to help you from what I can see.

Obviously the AMD AHCI drivers + SMART is an unworkable combination and you knew it before you had posted, and thus your post was really nothing more than whining. Now, I believe there is nothing wrong about whining (I do it all the time), especially the cause is a justifiable one - such as the one we're discussing here. When enough people agree on a certain issue, the collective voice can/will make a difference.

However, it seems like this particular issue doesn't seem to attract enough support here, at least so far. Folks found a workaround, and some prefer it over the 'ideal' solution which you're seeking. (including myself)

Good luck.

 

[asuranii]

funny thing is that this thread is First on google search keyword for "amd ahci smart"

he's not whining, he's asking if someone has an answer to his problem,
which this forum is for, right..?


..Right..

 

[Fox5]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2083024

According to this, MS's AHCI drivers perform BETTER than AMD's, at least in disk performance. Similar threads on the Internet seem to confirm that for disk performance, MS's drivers are at least close in performance to AMD's.
CPU usage is higher but... unless you're running software that hits all 4 cores hard AND has heavy disk usage at the same time (ie, a production level server), there doesn't seem to be a practical reason not to use Microsoft's drivers. You've got plenty of cpu capacity, disk I/O is inherently single threaded, and very few applications will have much need for the cpu while waiting on the disk anyway.

 

[IonusX]

personnaly TC id hold out till amd's 1090fx chipset on am3+. their primary focus is data storage on it with a better south-bridge than anything on the amd or intel table atm (socket 1155 and 2011 included).
assuming they dont forget to revise their drivers then it should be a jolly good show. you will also get alot more SATA and USB 2.0/3.0 ports to play with that way.
its supposed to launch sometimes this year. as to when is unclear but it is going to be this year and it will be am3+ so your welcome to carry over an existing cpu due to backward compatibility
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXNmNRb5X0M&feature=related

 

[notposting]

A little outdated, but here's some of my experience with the same issues:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=54238
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=261&threadid=115133

The AMD forums appear to be down though.
BTW...my desktop and laptop are now Intel based