- Jul 23, 2004
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What AMD cpu and motherboard could I use in a gaming-oriented system that will hold me over until the improved phenoms come along? Thanks for any help.
AMD chip for the time being?
- Thread starter Dorkenstein
- Start date
First off, what would be your budget for this system; and second, will you be wanting to keep this motherboard for the phenom-based system as well? Also, are you interested in overclocking at all, and why go AMD if building a ground-up system? The Intel chips perform so much better for not that much more money.
- Jul 23, 2004
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I guess I am curious about AMDs' newer chips, I know the intel ones trounce them but I used Athlons for several generations of my home pc and wanted to try AMD again. I have an intel system but I wanted to see hypothetically if it was worth getting an AMD system started in case their chips improve dramatically. No real budget in mind, but I appreciate any help.
I can't even recommend AMD. EVen if shanghai is good, how long to hit 4ghz like you can with Intel today? It's just a no brainer to buy Intel until AMD shows at least 3.6ghz something in my mind. And this coming from an admitted AMD fanboy. I held out as long as possible for decent phenom info, but it was a dud with no recovery in site. I converted the whole family now (sis, dad, me). Couldn't hold out any more. I'd love to help them out if they were near Intel, but it isn't even close as soon as the word overclocking comes out of your mouth. Which it has too...It's so easy.
CPU at this point to go with is the X2 5000+ Black Edition if you are gaming. Unless B3 Phenoms clock well, then they are an option as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103194
Motherboard depends on what you are looking for. You'll definately want an AMD 700 series board if you plan on upgrading to a Phenom CPU one day.
If you want a high-end motherboard with Crossfire, firewire, etc, then the MSI K9A2 Platinum 790FX is a good choice for $149: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813130136
There's plenty of 770 boards that are good options for <$100 prices, I don't really know much about them. Ask in the AMD section @ xtremsystems forums and see what they think if you decide to go that route.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103194
Motherboard depends on what you are looking for. You'll definately want an AMD 700 series board if you plan on upgrading to a Phenom CPU one day.
If you want a high-end motherboard with Crossfire, firewire, etc, then the MSI K9A2 Platinum 790FX is a good choice for $149: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813130136
There's plenty of 770 boards that are good options for <$100 prices, I don't really know much about them. Ask in the AMD section @ xtremsystems forums and see what they think if you decide to go that route.
I don't think anyone believes that AMD will "win" the CPU race, but AMD's 45nm CPUs are looking pretty good at this point as they should be 10-20% faster than current Phenoms. That should make them equal to or slightly faster than Intel's Penryn CPUs, but of course they will get trashed by Nehalem.
There's nothing wrong with an X2 5000+ @ 3.3GHz for a gaming system... will it be as fast as an E8400, no, but if he wants to support AMD then there is nothing wrong with it.
Personally I'd recommend he wait and consider Intel's 45nm E7200 and also in early April AMD will be cutting prices on all CPUs including Phenoms.
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Brisbane 65W $85 with Promo Code EMCADCAAH (thru 3-26)
BIOSTAR A770 A2+ AMD 770 $68
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16
BIOSTAR TA770 A2+ AMD 770 $80
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC888, 2 eSATA (6 total)
GIGABYTE GA-MA770-S3 AMD 770 $85
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC888, 2 x IEEE 1394a, DDR2 1066
ASUS M3A AMD 770 $90
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16, DDR2 1066
CrossFire Mobo
MSI K9A2 CF-F AMD 790X $100
HT 3.0, 2 x PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC888, DDR2 1066
(Crossfire in PCIe 2.0 'x8-x8' - effective 'x16-x16' under PCIe1 standard)
CrossFireX Quad "Spyder"
MSI K9A2 Platinum AMD 790FX $150 AR
HT 3.0, 4 x PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC888, 1 x IEEE 1394a, DDR2 1066, 2 eSATA (8 total)
(Crossfire in PCIe 2.0 'x8-x8-x8-x8' - effective 'x16-x16-x16-x16' under PCIe1 standard)
HTPC / IGP / mATX
GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AMD 780G HDMI $100
HT 3.0, PCIe 2.0 x16, Realtek ALC889A, 1 x IEEE 1394a, 1 eSATA (6 total), DDR2 1066
Says who? Fudzilla? AMD fanboys? I think its pretty wishful thinking that a die shrink will bring Phenom up to Penryn levels of performance. Even if the IPC is increased significantly to match Penryn, will it scale as high as Penryn? I doubt it. Think about it - 65nm Phenom is 10% down in IPC and 30% down in clockspeed compared to Intels own 65nm C2Q. Compared to 45nm C2Qs its down 15% IPC and 39% clockspeed (with Intel sandbagging too). Thats some pretty serious ground to make up from a die shrink.
Agreed, for people that prefer AMD, an X2 5000+ BE overclocked is probably the best value proposition at this point.
Yeah, the E7x00 chips should be awesome value. I've heard of the AMD pricecuts too, I can't imagine them being very steep as AMD chips are so cheap already.
nerp
Diamond Member
- Dec 31, 2005
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A lot of people never need all that much CPU, most games aren't bottlenecked by higher end AMD chips if paired with good video card, the 780G chipset looks amazingly awesome for HTPC setups and AMD chips are generally cheaper than Intel ones. Plenty of reasons to build an AMD box, if someone wants to. A lot of people might be hitting 4ghz on some intel chips but just as many if not more people never go past 2ghz or so with C1E and Speedstep enabled. Poking around windows, sending emails and watching movies doesn't require a 4ghz processor.
I don't think 10-20% is too hard to believe; for one, AMD is increasing the L3 cache from 2MB to 6MB, which should yield some performance increases. Games tend to benefit from cache, so that might be an area where you see a big improvement going from 65nm Agena -> 45nm Deneb. In certain situations, that could be an easy 5-10% improvement.
Also, it is likely (I would hope) that AMD has increased the NB/L3 frequency in relation to the core frequency. If the NB/L3 was able to run at core clock, or even above it, like was originally planned with the Phenom design, that right there is an easy 5% improvement.
Then you factor in some minor core tweaks, and I don't think 10-20% is too far fetched. The bigger question is how well 45nm Phenom will clock, and that's something I can't answer.
" guess I am curious about AMDs' newer chips"
Its a processor, not a car. They crunch numbers at a given speed. Not like a car which has a lot of variables like comfort, storage, acceleration, top speed, breaking power (towing capacity for trucks), etc etc. It's a processor that is easily compared to other processors to let you know what you're getting. If clock for clock AMD and Intel were the same, then it wouldn't matter. As is, all you get w/ an AMD in your box is a warm fuzzy in your heart.
Its a processor, not a car. They crunch numbers at a given speed. Not like a car which has a lot of variables like comfort, storage, acceleration, top speed, breaking power (towing capacity for trucks), etc etc. It's a processor that is easily compared to other processors to let you know what you're getting. If clock for clock AMD and Intel were the same, then it wouldn't matter. As is, all you get w/ an AMD in your box is a warm fuzzy in your heart.
I agree with the 5000+ as a good stop gap, but I read that the MSI board has trouble with the Phenoms (although it does very well with X2 chips.) The GIGABYTE GA-MA790FX has had better luck with the Phenom chips. If you want to read more on the MSI board that Extelleron suggested, here is a LONG forum post on it over at xtremesystems.
Demonstrably false. Plenty of today's games are CPU limited on a low clock speed single or dual core. Your core2 at 3.2 ghz is 30-50% faster than the fastest possible overclock on any AMD dual core, and even it would hold back even a single 8800GT in the likes of Flight Sim X and WiC.
For 'poking around in windows' all you need is the cheapest dual core out today -- so the X3600 or one of the celeron dualies. Low end boards are comprable for both -- $50ish for a decent one with on-board video. It's possible to build an AMD or Intel low end box for under $100 for cpu/ram/board. And it only makes sense to go AMD at that price point.
batmang
Diamond Member
- Jul 16, 2003
- 3,020
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Theres nothing wrong with the MSI K9A2 Platinum board. Its actually one of the better boards for the Phenoms right now. The problem with that board is overclocking the Phenom, that however is an issue with ANY Phenom compatible board. The Gigabyte boards have random memory imcompatiblity issues, read up on them. If you get a Phenom, don't expect much on the overclocking side. For out of the box performance they are awesome for how much your paying. And no I'm not saying this because I have a Phenom setup. They really are a great value IMO. The only downside to the Phenom's are the pricey AM2+ motherboards and lack of overclockability. If you want four cores, get a Phenom, if you want a overclocking beast get a Brisbane.
For overclocking, I would agree as well...but keep in mind that overclockers are about 1% or less of the computer owners out there. It has nothing to do with how hard or easy it is, it has to do with the individual's comfort level on anything like overclocking...most users start with a large dose of technophobia anyway, and something like overclocking is just too much for them.
superstition
Platinum Member
- Feb 2, 2008
- 2,219
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It seems like there has been a lot of pro-AMD posting here lately, but no products to support it. I used to be an AMD fan myself, because like many people I'm fond of competition because it keeps improvements coming and prices reasonable. However, AMD's current product line is a turkey. Even if you don't need much CPU power you can get an e2140/60 and overclock it easily for peanuts. I have my $50 e2140 running at 3 GHz on an $85 DS3L motherboard. It also runs the vanilla OS X kernel, which is something AMD can't do.
formulav8
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2000
- 7,004
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I don't remember him asking anything about buying a Intel system? Yet everyone is telling him to even though he said he wants a AMD setup for tweaking purposes.
The 5000+ BE is definitely one of the most cost effective chips out there. Bank for the buck is nearly unriveled when oced to 3-3.4 ghz. For $8x it would be very hard to beat that deal. Especially since you can get very cheap AMD boards that does just fine at ocing.
Just my shiney little pennys worth
Jason
The 5000+ BE is definitely one of the most cost effective chips out there. Bank for the buck is nearly unriveled when oced to 3-3.4 ghz. For $8x it would be very hard to beat that deal. Especially since you can get very cheap AMD boards that does just fine at ocing.
Just my shiney little pennys worth
Jason
lopri
Elite Member
- Jul 27, 2002
- 13,329
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How is it false? What he said is only as much false as what you said. He said "Most of games aren't.." and you said "Plenty of games are..". First of all you will need to do a survey of how many folks (percentage-wise) are playing Flight Sim X. And if I am being honest, this "flight sims being CPU-bound" is probably exaggerated. I haven't really seen benches of Flight Simulation X showing how CPU matters in a sensible setting. (We can make any game bound by either CPU or GPU, you know)
I have tried Flight Simulation X when I first got a 8800 GTX, and my impression was the game was GPU bound for my taste (that includes my monitor's native resolution). There are so many graphical options you can choose, and any time you want some decent scenary - which I assume is what matters - the FPS dropped like flies. Lowering resolution helped, indicating a better GPU will improve the situation.
And I think we can safely put aside single-core CPUs to history now. Lowest dual-core price hovering around $50~60, single-core is officially dead. Not something to factor in when comparing CPU and GPU.
Oh no... AMD can't run OS X, there goes that .01% of the market.
v8envy, if we all gamed at 1024x768 I'd agree with you more, but even at what is a pretty moddest resolution of 1680x1050 I doubt I'd see much improvement with an Intel CPU over my current Opteron with my current video card. Hell, I couldn't tell -that- much of a difference between my Opteron at 1.8ghz and at 2.55ghz... one of these days I should get around to running FRAPS on a few games with my CPU at stock and overclocked speeds to see what the difference is at my native res.
The one advantage I see in going the AMD route is to get a cheap SLI motherboard and grab a pair of 9600GTs.
In terms of the CPU, I think I would go with the 4200+ and call it a day. The Phenom will probably give you a great upgrade path at some point.
Just keep in mind that this rig will in all likelihood never be even close to cutting-edge in terms of CPU performance. What it will be is an incredibly affordable gaming powerhouse.
Also keep in mind that there is a pretty cheap NV 680i motherboard that will work with the C2Ds and SLI.
In terms of the CPU, I think I would go with the 4200+ and call it a day. The Phenom will probably give you a great upgrade path at some point.
Just keep in mind that this rig will in all likelihood never be even close to cutting-edge in terms of CPU performance. What it will be is an incredibly affordable gaming powerhouse.
Also keep in mind that there is a pretty cheap NV 680i motherboard that will work with the C2Ds and SLI.
Server workloads != desktop workloads.
I'm sure there would be some improvement going to 45nm, but to suggest it'll match or beat Penryn? I'll be surprised if it even beats a higher clocked Kentsfield, but hey, time will tell.
It is widely known amongst the FS-X community that it is predominantly CPU bound, but if its benches you want... here is an in depth look at FS-X performance
Here are benchmarks of other flight sim games.
A few examples of other (non flight sim) games that are also CPU bound:
Call of Duty 4
Supreme Commander
World in Conflict
Neverwinter Nights 2
Oblivion
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