To reach the low budget "niche" market AMD would need to shrink the profit margin which they'll try to avoid doing as long as the products sell perfectly fine at the current prices and margins.
Also, the "shrinking need" need for N7/N6 will be because they've moved tons of products to N5 but there is wafer capacity available on the previous Node.To reach the low budget "niche" market AMD would need to shrink the profit margin which they'll try to avoid doing as long as the products sell perfectly fine at the current prices and margins.
Once supply beats demand (whenever that may be) lower margin products will reappear.
For comparisson, Renoir R7 Pro 4750G has 156mm2 die size.5700G die is 180 mm2, not sure what need to be shrinked since they can get something like 320 functional dies out of a waffer, dunno the exact waffer cost but seems that it got below 8000$ when Vermeer was released.
AMD Ryzen 5 5600G und Ryzen 7 5700G im Test
AMD entdeckt die Liebe für Desktop-APUs zum Teil neu. Zu Recht, wie die beiden Topmodelle Ryzen 7 5700G und Ryzen 5 5600G im Test zeigen.www.computerbase.de
en.wikichip.org
I though earlier estimates had it at 175mm², but I guess that 180mm² is "rund 180 mm² große Chip".5700G die is 180 mm2, not sure what need to be shrinked since they can get something like 320 functional dies out of a waffer, dunno the exact waffer cost but seems that it got below 8000$ when Vermeer was released.
AMD Ryzen 5 5600G und Ryzen 7 5700G im Test
AMD entdeckt die Liebe für Desktop-APUs zum Teil neu. Zu Recht, wie die beiden Topmodelle Ryzen 7 5700G und Ryzen 5 5600G im Test zeigen.
caly-technologies.com
I think you misunderstand what I was saying. Someday they're gonna move all their high-profit stuff off N7/N6. That's what I meant by "shrinking family of products". I did not imply that anything in particular needed a die shrink.
APUs prices are somewhat unrealistic these days given that they are supposed to cover the low cost segment.To reach the low budget "niche" market AMD would need to shrink the profit margin which they'll try to avoid doing as long as the products sell perfectly fine at the current prices and margins.
Once supply beats demand (whenever that may be) lower margin products will reappear.
Actually i did put the recoverable dies at 90%, and when i said functional dies this include the 6C/7CU parts where either a core or a CU has been disabled due to a defect in the silicon.I though earlier estimates had it at 175mm², but I guess that 180mm² is "rund 180 mm² große Chip".
Anyway, plugging the SqrtRt of 180 (13.4mm) into this:
wafer yield calculator with a defect rate of 0.09 per cm² gives us this (TSMC gave that defect rate a good while back so it should hopefully be a lot better now):Die Per Wafer Calculator - CALY Technologies
Die Per Wafer Calculator Die Yield Calculator Max Die Per Wafer Murphy’s Low model of Die Yield Wafer Map SiC Devices 100mm 200mm Silicon wafer
Your 320 figure was assuming no defects.
The calculator expects 269 good dies per wafer although not all the 47 'defect' dies would be waste as with some of them they could disable a CU or core, etc.
On the other hand, not all good dies will bin at the kind of clocks or voltages they want, but since Cezanne isn't a single SKU console those should be useable somewhere.
$8000 is a bit optimistic, 7nm wafer are meant to be more like $12000+.
Anyway while wafers are scares, I guess the comparison for AMD is how many CCDS could they make instead?
"rund 180 mm²" translates to "around 180 mm²" which means it's a fuzzy rounded number, 175 mm² may still be more correct.
That's your expectation. These APUs are clearly not part of the low cost segment though. Why would they? Honestly it's insane enough that people expect a bigger monolithic chip with iGPU to be cheaper than a similar featured MCM chip without iGPU. The only reason this still makes somewhat sense for these particular chips is the significantly cut L3$ and lack of PCIe 4, and they are cheaper than the X-counterparts as a result.
And they probably cost more to make.
They will continue to crank out 7nm console APUs for years to come, eating up a big chunk of their wafers. And no doubt they will also want to move their IODs from 12/14nm onto a smaller process at some point.
Indeed, and the mobile market clearly is the focus. That very likely ate up supply for the low cost desktop segment to begin with. Like supply of the Dali-based 3000G disappeared right at the point AMD announced the Dali-based Chromebooks. Guess those are selling well. (Supply of 3000G actually has improved in Germany lately, but still far above the price from a year ago.)
I'd be really happy if they include an AV1 capable HW decoder (VCN 3.0) too. That'd be the perfect HTPC chip. But it's perhaps too much to ask for, given the segment.
Imo RDNA2 including VCN3/AV1 is more likely than a high amount of CUs. It's still a low budget part. Modern hardware acceleration is a selling point there, whereas comparably low CPU and GPU performance is to be expected.
Relevant table:I bring some bad news, it seems for some reason RMB lacks AV1 decode.
I don't get why. Van Gogh has the full RDNA2 media block, but RMB has a trimmed one.
他 RDNA 2 GPU とは対応コーディックが異なる Yellow Carp APU と Beige Goby GPU | Coelacanth's Dream
RDNA 2 アーキテクチャ を採用し、マルチメディアエンジンには VCN 3.0 を搭載する Yellow Carp APU 、Beige Goby GPU だが、最近になって Linux Kernel における AMD GPU ドライバーに投稿www.coelacanth-dream.com
Yeah, that's just retarded, if true. Even 14nm Rocket Lake has it!I bring some bad news, it seems for some reason RMB lacks AV1 decode.
I don't get why. Van Gogh has the full RDNA2 media block, but RMB has a trimmed one.
他 RDNA 2 GPU とは対応コーディックが異なる Yellow Carp APU と Beige Goby GPU | Coelacanth's Dream
RDNA 2 アーキテクチャ を採用し、マルチメディアエンジンには VCN 3.0 を搭載する Yellow Carp APU 、Beige Goby GPU だが、最近になって Linux Kernel における AMD GPU ドライバーに投稿
I expect they will be exhaustively reviewed right after they finish the Ampere and RDNA2 GPU family reviews.
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