AMD CEO talks of long-term turnaround

[ShintaiDK]

Huh? So Nvidia can lie about hardware specs and it's okay with you as long as it sells well?

Wow... I'm not sure you should be chiding other people for blind support of a company. Kinda screams "double standards".

There are 2 sides of the coin. Moral/ethics and business. While we all want the first one, the companies need the second to stay alive. Its no different than when asked, we all want organic and free range. But when we stand in the supermarket, we may change our mind due to price.

And from the looks of it, Fiji may have its own "4GB" issue.

This thread is about the business, not the ethics/morality.

 

[nemesismk2]

So in short you will buy AMD nomatter how it performs or anything else. Just because it got an AMD logo on it.

I hope you can see the issue yourself.

all of my amd cpu were selected mostly for other people and myself to use over the years.

 

[mrmt]

Still 3 Fiji SKU's coming. All this doom and gloom is ridiculous.

Look at the product stack. Look at where these three SKUs will sit and look at what price AMD will be able to sell them. Now tell us how these three Fiji SKUs will be a game changer, especially in face of the higher ASP of the 300 series rebrands.

 

[turtile]

Look at the product stack. Look at where these three SKUs will sit and look at what price AMD will be able to sell them. Now tell us how these three Fiji SKUs will be a game changer, especially in face of the higher ASP of the 300 series rebrands.

It doesn't really matter. The initial offerings are selling fine and AMD knows this. Why not make a high margin initially when your finances aren't great? They only need to lower the price when sales slow. If they make half the profit at a lower price, they need to sell twice as many products. If they keep the price where it is and only sell 20% less, they still make a lot more money.

 

[mrmt]

It doesn't really matter. The initial offerings are selling fine and AMD knows this. Why not make a high margin initially when your finances aren't great? They only need to lower the price when sales slow. If they make half the profit at a lower price, they need to sell twice as many products. If they keep the price where it is and only sell 20% less, they still make a lot more money.

It does matter, really. Basically once the early adopters frenzy fades AMD will end up with the same uncompetitive line up of the 300 series, coupled with some very expensive (costs) HBM SKUs.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Great post
I don't get the hate. He buys what he thinks suits his needs the best, it's his money.

Not just that, but AMD's CPU offerings may not offer high end performance abilities (they once were performance leaders) -- but they generally offered excellent performance at their respective price point throughout their history.

 

[DownTheSky]

They took ATi destroyed it's name and competitiveness and now they want to burn what's remained of it to the ground. GG AMD.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

They took ATi destroyed it's name and competitiveness and now they want to burn what's remained of it to the ground. GG AMD.

Actually, I believe ATi's drivers had already destroyed it's name and competitiveness before AMD even showed up. Just sayin.....

 

[mrmt]

Actually, I believe ATi's drivers had already destroyed it's name and competitiveness before AMD even showed up. Just sayin.....

AMD BoD respectfully disagrees.

 

[gorion]

So in short you will buy AMD nomatter how it performs or anything else. Just because it got an AMD logo on it.

I hope you can see the issue yourself.

is that any different from people buying Ducati just because it's a Ducati?

 

[Fjodor2001]

So this has now turned into yet another "let's bash AMD in general" thread... yaaawn...

 

[svenge]

is that any different from people buying Ducati just because it's a Ducati?

I'm not a car person but the Ducati must have at least some redeeming qualities vis a vis its competitors, unlike AMD in the post-Conroe era (2006 - present).

 

[Man I Suck]

i agree because i also think all the doom and gloom is ridiculous. i have always used amd cpu and always will.

You seem like the same kinda guy that cried screaming that the WWF was still "real to me, dammit!"

AMD is a sinking ship full of junk.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/a...erested-to-buy-advanced-micro-devices-source/

Check out Microsoft's interest in buying AMD. That's how bad AMD is doing.

 

[Dresdenboy]

The slide from analyst day:

Fiji was a completely flop for the pro segment. So I guess the 3 vectors are server, embedded and semicustom.

I didn't see a Fiji based FirePro yet. Please give me a pointer to these flopping Pro cards.

I'd say the 3 vectors are those, which are green in both categories.

For Fiji they didn't add FL 12_1 nor gaming relevant HDMI 2.0. Didn't they want to implement it and other stuff for 28nm?. FL 12_1 might be good for games using for example a voxel tech as described in the white paper below. They also didn't increase the ROPs (2/3 of top Maxwells). On older leaked slides there were up to 8 GB HBM mentioned for Fiji based cards, while any other specs match those of the launched GPU. So to me it looks a bit like they might have done more to create a truly competing gaming GPU.

Did they opt for the pro market instead? If they still use the 1/2 ratio of single vs. double precision throughput (while Nvidia uses 1/3 for Tesla cards and some earlier models), they might have the highest compute throughput GPU in both SP and DP. HBM does even fit better to these usecases, I think.

FL 12_0 vs. 12_1 (what is missing in Fiji's DX12 implementation:

More details here:
http://international.download.nvidi...nal/pdfs/GeForce_GTX_980_Whitepaper_FINAL.PDF

 

[dark zero]

You seem like the same kinda guy that cried screaming that the WWF was still "real to me, dammit!"

AMD is a sinking ship full of junk.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/a...erested-to-buy-advanced-micro-devices-source/

Check out Microsoft's interest in buying AMD. That's how bad AMD is doing.

Actually anyone would want to buy AMD...
If AMD dies, Intel would get everything (including GPU side since no one would want to buy it) and in short term, nVIDIA would be kicked out the x86 competition and VIA would get a demand because the alliance with the Chinese (XhaoXin).
In resume Intel would win the absolute x86 competition before 2020. And since ARM is strong, Intel would defend their monopoly position on x86. Yeah, something like ElbRUS from Russia.

 

[Jeff007245]

Here's to hoping a successful Zen launch next year. Really looking forward to 2016 for my next build. This year, i'll get a new phone and continue to enjoy my Rig as it is.

 

[showb1z]

Look at the product stack. Look at where these three SKUs will sit and look at what price AMD will be able to sell them. Now tell us how these three Fiji SKUs will be a game changer, especially in face of the higher ASP of the 300 series rebrands.

Fiji is a high-end only part, it was never going to be a game changer.
But since it's only been out for a week and the, likely, two most popular SKU's are still coming calling it a failure is ridiculous.
And the 300 series is priced competitively compared to Nvidia's stack as it is. Not sure what you want AMD to do. They're working with very limited resources. A completely new stack was out of the question. They're in damage control until 14nm and they'll try to make a new push then, let's hope it works.
Because after all, despite what some of the people around here would like, real competition is in all our best interest.

 

[DrMrLordX]

There are 2 sides of the coin. Moral/ethics and business. While we all want the first one, the companies need the second to stay alive. Its no different than when asked, we all want organic and free range. But when we stand in the supermarket, we may change our mind due to price.

Fury X seems to be selling pretty well despite proclamations of its failure. We don't know if that will continue, or how much of that is a result of product shortages; for now - from a "business" perspective - Fury X doesn't look like any more of a failure than the 970.

And from the looks of it, Fiji may have its own "4GB" issue.

I don't know why people keep saying that. Cards with VRAM shortages do not have performance degradation relative to a competing card with more VRAM as resolution decreases. If Fury X really had a VRAM problem, it would win at 1080P vs 980Ti, lose ground at 1440P, and get beat at 4K. In many benchmarks, it seems to be the other way around.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I didn't see a Fiji based FirePro yet. Please give me a pointer to these flopping Pro cards.

I'd say the 3 vectors are those, which are green in both categories.

On older leaked slides there were up to 8 GB HBM mentioned for Fiji based cards, while any other specs match those of the launched GPU.

4GB in the pro segment isnt working (AMD is currently selling up to 16GB cards there). So until HBM2 and a new 14nm card that wont change.

You are not going to see more than 4GB on HBM1. All those older slides was fake like the dual link interposer and what else nonsense people could cook up.

 

[mrmt]

And the 300 series is priced competitively compared to Nvidia's stack as it is. Not sure what you want AMD to do.

200 series was positioned competitively against Nvidia line up, this 300 series rebrand isn't.

 

[el etro]

So this has now turned into yet another "let's bash AMD in general" thread... yaaawn...

Of course. Typical AMD thread.

 

[mrmt]

Of course. Typical AMD thread.

In case you guys haven't noticed AMD situation isn't really any comfortable and isn't really improving in the last few years, but degrading even further.

 

[Dresdenboy]

4GB in the pro segment isnt working (AMD is currently selling up to 16GB cards there). So until HBM2 and a new 14nm card that wont change.

You are not going to see more than 4GB on HBM1. All those older slides was fake like the dual link interposer and what else nonsense people could cook up.

Interesting, you didn't counter my points about Fiji not being more heavily optimized for the gaming market, nor the likely areas of AMD's future focus.

Are you sure, you don't mix the faking of the Zen slides (which I was sceptical of from the beginning) with the leak/possible faking of the GPU slides? What is the sound argumentation about the impossibility of doing such a dual-link interposer for a much higher margin market?

Here are the referred slides:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...ation-rumor-thread.55600/page-29#post-1831601

Further the Pro cards might use two GPUs, which (due to much smaller texture space requirements) would be fine for pro graphics while keeping redundant data. While for compute tasks they could actually store different working sets in the local RAM.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Interesting, you didn't counter my points about Fiji not being more heavily optimized for the gaming market, nor the likely areas of AMD's future focus.

Are you sure, you don't mix the faking of the Zen slides (which I was sceptical of from the beginning) with the leak/possible faking of the GPU slides? What is the sound argumentation about the impossibility of doing such a dual-link interposer for a much higher margin market?

Here are the referred slides:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...ation-rumor-thread.55600/page-29#post-1831601

Further the Pro cards might use two GPUs, which (due to much smaller texture space requirements) would be fine for pro graphics while keeping redundant data. While for compute tasks they could actually store different working sets in the local RAM.

Yes, your slides are fake.

There is no such thing as dual link interposer. And there is no future for Fiji in the pro segment with 4GB limit. But again, Fiji want supposed to be limited to 4GB in the first place. Hynix couldnt deliver and AMD knew that way over a year ago. And there was no GDDR5 backup plan. or they was simply too fixated on being "first". Such economic blunders have been seen with AMD before. Native quadcore comes to mind as an example.

 

[showb1z]

200 series was positioned competitively against Nvidia line up, this 300 series rebrand isn't.

We must have different definitions of what competitive means then.

390X ~ 980 at $80-100 cheaper
390 ~ 970 at same price
380 beats 960 at same price

To me that seems competitive, whether or not these chips are refreshes is completely irrelevant to their performance in the current product stacks.