AMD Boards....

[urbantechie]

I've always asked my self this question, why doesn't AMD make their own boards? That would eliminate a whole bunch on incompatibility problems. Same with Intel, their boards are the best stuff, but no bios tweaking/options. So why not AMD?

 

[Rent]

Yah lets stifle competition.

Thats why we let the chip manufacturers make the chipsets and the companys make the boards...

 

[urbantechie]

Well, There are a whole bunch of Intel boards out there so don't tell me there is no competition out there.

 

[Rent]

AMD does make their own boards. The first gen MSI and Gigabyte boards were basically stock Fester reference boards from AMD with the companys name on them. They were rock stable. Its companies like FIC and Biostar that really deviate from the reference that give AMD a bad name.

I see what your saying, but you have to realize where AMD is coming from. They're just now starting to get the stability in the market. Remember that AMD was on shaky financial ground before Athlon. We may see some AMD boards but I don't really think it will do anyone any good.

 

[Modus]

urbantechie,

<<That would eliminate a whole bunch on incompatibility problems.>>

A &quot;whole bunch&quot;? Actually, the amount of unresolved compatibility problems with Athlon motherboards amounts to one (1): nVidia's Detonator3 drivers are unreliable on KT133 motherboards. And since this is not manifest in the Detonator2 series, it is obviously a bug in nVidia's Detonator3 drivers and not AMD or VIA's fault at all.

For AMD to branch into the mainstream motherboard market would mean a significant shift of their limitted resources to a field which is already covered well by their partners. I'm sure AMD plans to enter the high end server market at some point, and at that time I could see them making limitted edition motherboads customized for various high paying customers, but that's all.

Modus

 

[urbantechie]

Well, in my experience, whenever using Intel boards I have almost no problems what so ever. And with AMD boards, I would expect maybe I could skimp and get real cheap RAM and still work? I think you know what I mean.

 

[Instigator]

Radeon,
I'm assuming you did not have one of the first Gigabyte AMD 750 Irongate motherboards, because I have one now and it was absolutely the most unstable board I've ever worked with.
And ALL AMD 750 Irongate motherboards were notorious for poor stability. Why, because you needed to use VERY good power supplies and memory of which I have both. And that did not guarantee stability. In order to get my Gigabyte GA-7IX motherboard to run stable I had to slow down the memory settings in the bois, which is a bummer because I'm using Micron PC100 CAS2. The reason I'm writing about this is because I've been building PCs for 6-7 years and this system was the worst I've ever dealt with. Now the KT133 motherboards are much much much much much much better Athlon motherboards. Did I say that they are much better? That being said, I still love my system:

Athlon Classic 500@700
Gigabyte GA-7IX (I'd love to set this thing on fire)
256mb Micron PC100 CAS2
SB Live Value
Boston Acoustics MicroMedia Speakers
Acer 50x CD-rom
V5 5500 AGP
Sportster ISDN T/A
KDS AV-21TF 21 in monitor

I certainly hope the AMD 760 DDR motherboards are better, because I plan on getting the Abit KG7 Raid motherboard when it comes out in December. Anyways, I just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Later.

 

[XMan]

Gee, my K7M has been pretty stable. That's an AMD750 chipset board, Instigator.

Guess that depends on your definition of stability though . . . I was mildly disappointed when I had to reboot it the other day. It was the first time in a month.

Putting a blanket statement out that AMD boards are finicky about power supplies and memory is somewhat misleading. Sure, the original Athlon sucked up a lot of power, which explains the power supply, but at least they could still use standard ATX supplies, unlike say, that new P4 chip - some company named Intel makes it? - that needs an entire new ATX standard to function.

And my BH6 - and Intel BX chipset board - absolutely refused to work with cheap SDRAM. I returned it, ordered some Micron Crucial, and didn't have a problem with the board. The same memory works flawlessly in my AMD setup.

IMHO, don't b!tch about system instability if you're going to use crappy components.

 

[Factor5]

<< ...I plan on getting the Abit KG7 Raid motherboard... >>



I believe the correct spelling is Abit KT7

 

[urbantechie]

I've been building computers since I was 8 and now i'm 15, IMHO the more recent K7 compatibility issues were so much more mind boggling and sorry to say but stupid. AMD should of solved some of these problems. Such ass PS and RAM issues. I can truthfully say that I can put a cheapo PS and some really really cheap ass RAM in with a P3 and it'll run fine. So, I am positive that if AMD produced their own boards, many problems would be resolved.

my $0.02


Edit: Even though I have never owned a K7 computer myself, i've had enough headaches building them at work.

 

[Modus]

Instigator,

<<And ALL AMD 750 Irongate motherboards were notorious for poor stability.>>

Absolutely false. You are taking your own personal negative experience with one (1) single Irongate motherboard to be indicative of the entire range of Irongate motherboards ever made. Right from the beginning, the Athlon platforms have been exceptionally stable. Read some of Anand's reviews of early production boards to refresh your memory. The few problems with nVidia cards were quickly addressed by BIOS and driver updates.

A blanket statement like the one you just made only confirms the sentiment behind your screen name.

urbantechie,

<<IMHO the more recent K7 compatibility issues were so much more mind boggling and sorry to say but stupid. AMD should of solved some of these problems. Such ass PS and RAM issues.>>

Your HO is wrong.

Having to install a VIA driver set for your motherboard's chipset is NOT a compatibility problem. Having to buy an AMD aproved power supply is NOT a compatibility problem. Having to supply adequate cooling for your CPU is NOT a compatibility problem. And AMD systems do NOT, and never have, required special memory.

There is currently ONE unresolved compatibility problem with K7 chips: the nVidia Detonator3 drivers. Since the Detonator2 drivers don't exhibit this problem, it's obviously nVidia's fault, and they will certainly address their bug at some point.

Modus

 

[Shudder]

Why doesn't Goodyear build an entire car?
...Valvoline build engines?
... blah blah

Specialization. Why build a mediocre mobo when you can just make a pretty good chip for the people who DO know how to make them. Intel doesn't really make their own, do they? I thought they only supplied the chips. At any rate, stay within your lines of business or expect to spend way too much money on R&amp;D and still lose out to a company who has been doing the same product for a long time. Sometimes partnerships/alliances are much more profitable (and better quality for the consumers)

 

[urbantechie]

<< Having to install a VIA driver set for your motherboard's chipset is NOT a compatibility problem >>



I never said that. I'm running a VIA board and I had to install those and i'm not complaining.

How many people can get the cheapest ram and get it to work with a classic Athlon?




I can use real real cheap RAM with a P3 and it will run stable.

 

[Noriaki]

Instigator, my system ran perfectly fine on a AMD750 chipset with cheapo generic RAM and a cheapo generic 250Watt power supply (i've since uppped the RAM because I wanted better performance, but I still have el cheapo powersupply) My roommate is also running a K7M with cheapo generic RAM and PSU. I put together Chris's athlon system from scratch and he's had no problems at all, he's got a 250Watt PSU, i think it's athlon certified but it's still only 250Watt, that's pretty normal.

I don't think it's fair to say that all AMD750 motherboards were unstable. The only major problem was the AGP strobe thing, and someone or another Asus's GeForces didn't have that problem, they added a few extra capacitors to smooth the signal...tough stuff.

The AMD750 is quite fine in my experience. I hadn't rebooted since the beginning of September until last week when I bought my CDRW and wanted to install it, and I decided that would be safer with the power OFF.

I won't make a broad sweeping statement about the AMD750 but in my experience (5 or 6 systems based on asus K7M) it's been a perfectly acceptable board.

 

[Remedy]

<< How many people can get the cheapest ram and get it to work with a classic Athlon? >>



You get what you pay for in computers...IF you bought cheap memory then you get cheap performance and its no one elses fault but your own not amd, not via, JUST YOU. AMD has a list of specific parts recomended for use with there cpu's and motherboards. If you don't do your homework before hand, then you end up paying the price in the end.

Secondly why would you buy cheap components for your high power system such as an athlon anyways?

I've seen many ppl argue and debate about how Geforce's and athlons are a bad combo. If 3dfx,ATi,Matrox and so on didn't have any problems with the athlon. Then why is it that nvidia is the only with a problem? Truth is bad engineering in the build of drivers and zealots hate to admit it.

 

[hominid skull]

I run my classic Athlon 500@730 on a k7m with a 235W power supply with no problems whatsoever..

 

[urbantechie]

I don't see why someone would have to buy good RAM. With a P3 I get cheap RAM. Works fine. Cheap RAM with a Classic Athlon, ususally means trouble.

 

[Templeton]

The question shouldn't be why you should have to get good ram, it should be why would you want to use cheap ram. At the time of the Athlons launch, it was never intended to be put into cheap &quot;value&quot; systems, and still isn't. It's made to be a highend platform, and using high end components with it is just common sense. If I were building a p3 system right now, I would use name brand ram, and a high quality powersupply to compliment the other components. If I wanted a value system, I would use a celeron and i810 board along with the cheapest parts I could find. If you went out and bought a ferrari today, would you put the cheapest gas you could find in in it?

 

[urbantechie]

Well, why can I get cheapo parts with a Intel system and it'll work. But with Athlons, you are told and recomended to get good RAM. But why should you? It might be the right thing to do but what if you can't afford it?

 

[NesuD]

Instigator,

I am using a rev1.0 Gigabyte Ga-7IX and have experienced few problems with it. Only major problem was updated bios for faster Athlons. I have used only generic micron 8e memory and a generic 250 watt p.s. which had to be replaced with a 300 watt Deer supply when i upgraded the cpu to an 800. Other than that it has always been a very stable board. The only quirk and I am sure it is specific to the board itself is it's inability to detect a usb mouse about half the time on bootup. Simply unplugging the mouse and plugging it back in cures it though. I have built a lot of Athlon systems in the past year with several different boards and until recently preferred the amd 750 based boards for their stability. Maybe I just got lucky but roughly 60 systems with no major problems is a fairly good run of luck I would say.

 

[Modus]

urbantechie,

<<How many people can get the cheapest ram and get it to work with a classic Athlon?>>

Um. . . me? Every single customer requesting an AMD system for the past two years has received generic PC100 or PC133 unless otherwise specified. That's from elcheapo integrated boards running K6-2's through Gigabyte 7IX and Microstar K7 Pro running classic Athlons all the way up to generic Matsonic KT133 boards running Durons.

I have never, ever, had to replace generic RAM with something more expensive.

Modus

 

[Rent]

I have 3 AMD Boards sitting at my house:

1) MSI 6167 Mainboard, what I'm currently using. Rock stable. Haven't had a problem with it since I updated the bios.

2) Asus K7M, Got it running my Win2k Serv at the house. Doesn't crash.

3) Dead Gigabyte GA-71x. After a bios update this board was MUCH better. Out of the box, it sucked. I accidentally scracted the PCB right across the interconnectors from the Northgate to the rest of the board. RIP.

I suggest you think before you flame me Instigator. I've been building computers since I was 10, now I'm 19. Age does not matter here. Your ability to comprehend the situation of other people, however, does.

 

[Noriaki]

<< Well, why can I get cheapo parts with a Intel system and it'll work. But with Athlons, you are told and recomended to get good RAM. But why should you? It might be the right thing to do but what if you can't afford it? >>



Do you have another argument? You've made this one several times and had several answers. Well here's another one:

What if you can't afford it? If you can't afford the $40 difference between cheap RAM and good RAM what are you doing with a high end CPU? The Athlons are not marketted at people who care about a $40 difference in RAM price. Besides, you've had lots of people answer that they've had Athlon systems running fine with cheap RAM. Are you just too much of a zealot and read what you want in their posts? Or do you just not take the time to read them at all?

The Athlon is a high end desktop processor. If you &quot;can't afford&quot; it, then don't use an Athlon. If you are so strapped for cash you can't afford that little difference in RAM price, shoudln't you be saving that money for groceries or something? There are processors for people that care about $40, the Athlon ins't one of them.

 

[urbantechie]

<< Um. . . me? >>


Maybe thats just you. How many rants did you see on this board about how this didn't work, why it won't boot with this KB pluggged in, etc? (When the Athlon first came out) Just read some post and you will see, &quot;Well, everyone said I have to get good RAM with my Athlon&quot;.....

 

[Rent]

Your not looking at the timeframe in which the Athlon platform was released. The &quot;classic&quot; Athlon was originally fighting the Katami core P3's. If destroyed them. Mhz per mhz the Athlon took it and beat it silly. Athlons were high end systems and you do not put crap ram in high end systems.

I was able to use my Generic 64mb dimms in all of my Athlon based systems. From all my experience working with Athlons, I've yet to see a classic AMD system crash SOLELY due to bad ram. I think the P3 is a whore when it comes to accepting components.