AMD blog comment on TWIMTBP

[thilanliyan]

http://blogs.amd.com/play/2009...d-why-you-should-care/

Read comment #26.

Part of it (talking about Batman):
"The advantage of in-game AA is that the engine can run AA selectively on scenes whereas Forced AA in CCC is required to use brute force to apply AA on every scene and object, requiring much more work.

Additionally, the in-game AA option was removed when ATI cards are detected. We were able to confirm this by changing the ids of ATI graphics cards in the Batman demo. By tricking the application, we were able to get in-game AA option where our performance was significantly enhanced. This option is not available for the retail game as there is a secure rom."

That's just not right...I can understand the PhysX working only on nV hardware and I figured the AA thing was actually only able to run on nV cards (lol I was suckered in by nV marketing!!!) but now even AA is being artificially limited?? Not good. :|

ATI definitely needs better dev relations..too bad they're not better off financially otherwise they could MAYBE have better dev relations. I think the dev (Rocksteady?) should take part of the blame for this Batman thing as well and receive a crapload of bad publicity to maybe straighten them out for the next time they release a game.

 

[alyarb]

seems like nvidia is a likely culprit for other issues the radeons are having with TWIMTBP titles.

 

[Wreckage]

It seems pretty lame for AMD to blame its problems on NVIDIA. Especially in a blog post with no proof.

 

[MarcVenice]

Oh oh, it's that time again! Proof for the naysayers: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=24

I've also confirmed myself that when NO AA is applied at all with either Nvidia or ATI cards, the ATI cards suddenly perform a lot closer to the Nvidia cards. Also, Nvidia shouldn't be blamed, the developers should be blamed. They should have stood firm and said, why would we disable an option that works just fine on ati-cards?

 

[thilanliyan]

FUGGER at XS posted something on the Eidos forums and also emailed nV and Eidos...see what reaction they get.

Here's a statement from Rocksteady BEFORE that AMD blog thing came up:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/show...p=1320273&postcount=38

"The form of anti-aliasing implemented in Batman: Arkham Asylum uses features specific to NVIDIA cards. However, we are aware some users have managed to hack AA into the demo on ATI cards. We are speaking with ATI/AMD now to make sure it?s easier to enable some form of AA in the final game."

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: thilan29
FUGGER at XS posted something on the Eidos forums and also emailed nV and Eidos...see what reaction they get.

Here's a statement from Rocksteady BEFORE that AMD blog thing came up:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/show...p=1320273&postcount=38

"The form of anti-aliasing implemented in Batman: Arkham Asylum uses features specific to NVIDIA cards. However, we are aware some users have managed to hack AA into the demo on ATI cards. We are speaking with ATI/AMD now to make sure it?s easier to enable some form of AA in the final game."

I like this quote from that thread.

"This is what I'm talking about. Such a high profile game and ATI/AMD has had no communication with them already? It has to come to the enthusiasts showing the game developer that it does work just the same, then the developer liaising with ATI? Nvidia were already way ahead and managed to get an Nv "only" (to most of the consumers it will be Nv only) AA path in there, and it happens so much nowadays. ATI are only reactive, Nv are proactive with devrel to the consumers knowledge."

AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

 

[bryanW1995]

how stupid can you be? "...uses features specific to NVIDIA cards." What? It's a TWIMTBP title for a reason; they took lots of money from nvidia to put the logo on there. Nvidia is probably pissed off that many TWIMTBP titles in the past have worked just as well on ati cards, so they obviously asked the dev to stack the deck in nvidia's favor. This is disgusting behavior, it has nothing to do with "developer relations" and everything to do with "anti-competitive behavior". I'm not swearing off nvidia or anything stupid like that, but shit like this will definitely make me think twice in the future before going green.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

There's probably some truth in that but disabling AA(!!)...that's just wrong...it's not a proprietary tech like PhysX (I think)...why should ATI's dev relations have to help a dev put AA of all things into their game when it's running an ATI card. If true...the fact that changing the hardware tag enables the AA (and assuming it runs fine) just reeks of the devs being paid off (which is the devs' fault as much an nVidia's).

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

It's completely Nvidia fault. They asked to lock out ingame AA and got caught red handed.

We are speaking with ATI/AMD now to make sure it?s easier to enable some form of AA in the final game.

Why would they need to talk to ATI when it's their launcher that's locking out AA support on ATI cards?

Originally posted by: thilan29
If true...the fact that changing the hardware tag enables the AA (and assuming it runs fine) just reeks of the devs being paid off (which is the devs' fault as much an nVidia's).

I can confirm it's true and have tested it. Heck even the Xbox 360 has 2xAA support with this title.

It makes me wonder what Nvidia will try next.

 

[alyarb]

yeah, there is no need to discuss anything with AMD; AMD's response is not required for a fix. their excuse/resolution has so many holes in it.

 

[Wreckage]

Occam's razor....

AA has never worked well on AMD cards using the Unreal 3 engine. So the developers probably disable it because of these issues.

These conspiracy theories of nefarious deeds are rather amusing though.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
how stupid can you be? "...uses features specific to NVIDIA cards." What? It's a TWIMTBP title for a reason; they took lots of money from nvidia to put the logo on there. Nvidia is probably pissed off that many TWIMTBP titles in the past have worked just as well on ati cards, so they obviously asked the dev to stack the deck in nvidia's favor. This is disgusting behavior, it has nothing to do with "developer relations" and everything to do with "anti-competitive behavior". I'm not swearing off nvidia or anything stupid like that, but shit like this will definitely make me think twice in the future before going green.

Sigh, it's a TWIMTBP title because they accepted Nvidia's help to actually get AA working. In exchange, they put a stupid vendor logo in front of their game with the 11 other video clips. You guys are nuts.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

There's probably some truth in that but disabling AA(!!)...that's just wrong...it's not a proprietary tech like PhysX (I think)...why should ATI's dev relations have to help a dev put AA of all things into their game when it's running an ATI card. If true...the fact that changing the hardware tag enables the AA (and assuming it runs fine) just reeks of the devs being paid off (which is the devs' fault as much an nVidia's).

They didn't disable it, they enabled AA if you had NV hardware. That's completely different and it's a misrepresentation to claim the reverse.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Occam's razor....

AA has never worked well on AMD cards using the Unreal 3 engine. So the developers probably disable it because of these issues.

These conspiracy theories of nefarious deeds are rather amusing though.

Speaking of Occam's razor - are you trying to start a new rumor about "AA has never worked well on AMD cards using the Unreal 3 engine"?
Just because it's like a typical BS rumor, y'know: there's was something originally about the subject but this statement is just completely FALSE.:frown:

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

There's probably some truth in that but disabling AA(!!)...that's just wrong...it's not a proprietary tech like PhysX (I think)...why should ATI's dev relations have to help a dev put AA of all things into their game when it's running an ATI card. If true...the fact that changing the hardware tag enables the AA (and assuming it runs fine) just reeks of the devs being paid off (which is the devs' fault as much an nVidia's).

They didn't disable it, they enabled AA if you had NV hardware. That's completely different and it's a misrepresentation to claim the reverse.

Yeah, except aparently it's enabled by default as soon as you change the Vendor ID.

Stop BSing about Nvidia's another disgusting trick.

 

[T2k]

Let me guess: this was one of the last mines laid by this PoS life form called Derek Perez? Nice goodbye-gift, loser - glad to see you're gone from this industry for good. (Feel sorry for the clueless sports team that hired you.)

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

There's probably some truth in that but disabling AA(!!)...that's just wrong...it's not a proprietary tech like PhysX (I think)...why should ATI's dev relations have to help a dev put AA of all things into their game when it's running an ATI card. If true...the fact that changing the hardware tag enables the AA (and assuming it runs fine) just reeks of the devs being paid off (which is the devs' fault as much an nVidia's).

They didn't disable it, they enabled AA if you had NV hardware. That's completely different and it's a misrepresentation to claim the reverse.

Yeah, except aparently it's enabled by default as soon as you change the Vendor ID.

Stop BSing about Nvidia's another disgusting trick.

It's not enabled by default. They changed the Vendor ID to Nvidia.

 

[Ben90]

Check the config file for it, there is stuff that is disabled when the game is run on an ATI card.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

There's probably some truth in that but disabling AA(!!)...that's just wrong...it's not a proprietary tech like PhysX (I think)...why should ATI's dev relations have to help a dev put AA of all things into their game when it's running an ATI card. If true...the fact that changing the hardware tag enables the AA (and assuming it runs fine) just reeks of the devs being paid off (which is the devs' fault as much an nVidia's).

They didn't disable it, they enabled AA if you had NV hardware. That's completely different and it's a misrepresentation to claim the reverse.

Yeah, except aparently it's enabled by default as soon as you change the Vendor ID.

Stop BSing about Nvidia's another disgusting trick.

It's not enabled by default. They changed the Vendor ID to Nvidia.

Right. Because that enables AA - even on an ATI card, as it's been proved.

Again: games comes with disabled AA, you claim because they "worked" with NV it only works with NV cards - then changing vendor ID suddenly enables it on ATIs.

Which part of this ridiculous BS story is still unclear for you?

 

[Shmee]

while this is kinda messed up, the game doesn't sound that great anyways. I am not much of a superhero game player. I'll probably just stick with quake wars and a few other FPS's until SC2 comes out. Though that is a whole other can of worms. I am really looking forward to doom 4 though.

 

[T2k]

BTW I never thought of this title as AAA game - based on shots it looks 'meh'. I bet we won't even remember a year from now so I can imagine ATI didn't really care - however it does not mean this kind of cheap tricks should go without PR blowback.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: T2k
BTW I never thought of this title as AAA game - based on shots it looks 'meh'. I bet we won't even remember a year from now so I can imagine ATI didn't really care - however it does not mean this kind of cheap tricks should go without PR blowback.

It is selling well at least on the consoles.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

LOL Nvidia getting caught red-handed again.

 

[T2k]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: T2k
BTW I never thought of this title as AAA game - based on shots it looks 'meh'. I bet we won't even remember a year from now so I can imagine ATI didn't really care - however it does not mean this kind of cheap tricks should go without PR blowback.

It is selling well at least on the consoles.

Sure. It's just my personal opinion - few titles achieve long-lasting fame, especially on PC, if you think about it.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: T2k

Originally posted by: aka1nas

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Wreckage
AMD has poor developer relations. That's not NVIDIA's fault.

There's probably some truth in that but disabling AA(!!)...that's just wrong...it's not a proprietary tech like PhysX (I think)...why should ATI's dev relations have to help a dev put AA of all things into their game when it's running an ATI card. If true...the fact that changing the hardware tag enables the AA (and assuming it runs fine) just reeks of the devs being paid off (which is the devs' fault as much an nVidia's).

They didn't disable it, they enabled AA if you had NV hardware. That's completely different and it's a misrepresentation to claim the reverse.

Yeah, except aparently it's enabled by default as soon as you change the Vendor ID.

Stop BSing about Nvidia's another disgusting trick.

It's not enabled by default. They changed the Vendor ID to Nvidia.

Right. Because that enables AA - even on an ATI card, as it's been proved.

Again: games comes with disabled AA, you claim because they "worked" with NV it only works with NV cards - then changing vendor ID suddenly enables it on ATIs.

Which part of this ridiculous BS story is still unclear for you?

I'm not sure which part is unclear to you. Have you actually played the whole game through on an ATI card to make sure it actually works properly with AA enabled?

You're knee-jerking based on an corporate blog entry by an AMD employee. I'm going to take the word of the actual developer of the game over that unless there's direct proof of the contrary. Simply getting AA to enable and running through a single level of the game isn't sufficient.