AMD/ATI in Trouble?

[DJSfurry]

Article

Yes its from the Inquirer, i know, however they do seem to make some valid points.

Thoughts?

 

[sodcha0s]

It's rubbish. The article is taking the view that a niche market (xfire, sli) is the driving force behind GPU sales, when in reality it accounts for a very very small slice of the overall picture. The rest is pure speculation, nobody knows what lies ahead in the GPU market beyond G80/R600.

 

[Xcobra]

sounds like a bunch of guessing crap they did there....

 

[mwmorph]

the top line, espically sli/xfire are very small portions of the market for either company. the real money makers are integrated and low end discrete solutions. Nvidia could sell 0 7900gtx and they would be fine. The only people taht actualyl buy flagship. or sli/xfire flagship are a select few on atot video and another very very select few ranndom people with mroe money than knowledge/common sense that like bragging about the new sli moster rig they got from voodoo pc for $21k all tricked out.

There is no more profitable section for video card manufacturers than integrated and integrated mobile devices. Just ask Intel.

 

[Drayvn]

Do they even know what they are talking about?

They said Fanboys drive the GPU industry... WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?!?!?

And they said mobile phones and laptops and stuff like that is only a resonable area of the industry. If i remember correctly ATi have the biggest market share in mobile phones which gives them the biggest revenues!

Its like Crossfire and SLI are the only solutions that make any money, did they forget the other hundreds of cheaper alternatives that make up much more of the market? They could have easily looked at the Valve surveys and found out that there arent millions of SLI users, but there are quite a few who still have 6600GTs, X800, and what not and the even lower end market.

Did they forget that Intel still dominates the market for the whole of the GPU industry.... and what do they call it... yes an onboard GPU...

 

[fierydemise]

I just lost all remaining respect for the inq, or at least I would have if I had any to begin with.

 

[Lonyo]

Umm.
They forgot one part.

Their premise is right, "The problem is not so much what ATI has but what it doesn't have."

ATi doesn't have as big a slice of the integrated market as Intel does. Teaming up with AMD means an AMD chipset + AMD integrated graphics + AMD processor (since AMD now own ATi).
The market is not driven by integrated graphics, but it is certainly pushed by them, from the rear, as it is the largest section of the market. And ATi have already been ,aking chipset inroads.
Add in a total package from AMD and those inroads could grow to be highways, like Intel already has.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Fewer fanboys means fewer column inches means fewer sales. And that means ATI is worth less.

I think what the guy is trying to say here is - "Average Joe 6-Pack doesn't know how X1600 Pro, X1600XT, 7600GS, 7600GT etc. compare against each other. He might go on the web for a few minutes, find out X1900XTX beats 7900GTX...and buy the X1600XT over the 7600GT or the X1600Pro over the 7600GS. Or he might stumble across an article that declares SLI a winner over Crossfire. So in Joe 6-Pack's mind, nVidia > ATi. All depends on whom he asks/where he looks. And nVidia has (arguably) better street-rep than ATi."

I think this is the point the writer was trying to make in his typically crude Inquirer-like manner. This article must be viewed as someone's personal opinion. And a silly and stupid one at that. The Headline is simply to attract hits and pageviews. And the dude said dual when he meant duel. And the word is worthless, not worth less. And no, ATi is not worthless just because of Crossfire woes.

 

[akugami]

If anything, both ATI and nVidia have to be worried about the R&D Intel is pouring into real time ray tracing solutions. If they get something that is half-way decent that works on Intel chipsets then I think nVidia and ATI are toing to have a LOT to be worried about.

 

[AmdInside]

This article is a perfect example of why The Inq is a stupid online website for people who want real news. Move along. Nothing to see...read here.

 

[apoppin]

And then the Author goes and contradicts EVERYTHING he has just written:

There's only one way that springs to mind as a potential escape route towards profit: releasing graphics chips that fit into the same sockets as AMD's processors and use HyperTransport instead of PCIe. It would mean convincing memory manufacturers to release GDDR4 memory modules, would lead to huge motherboards (barring some radical form factor changes), incredible cooling requirements, etc. But it would be enormously risky as, once again, it could incur the wrath of Nvidia.

i am sure ati/amd "cares" about incurring nvidia's wrath . . . nvidia needs amd . . . at least for a few years . . . and amd loves - and "needs" risk

i say good move, amd

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: apoppin
And then the Author goes and contradicts EVERYTHING he has just written:

There's only one way that springs to mind as a potential escape route towards profit: releasing graphics chips that fit into the same sockets as AMD's processors and use HyperTransport instead of PCIe. It would mean convincing memory manufacturers to release GDDR4 memory modules, would lead to huge motherboards (barring some radical form factor changes), incredible cooling requirements, etc. But it would be enormously risky as, once again, it could incur the wrath of Nvidia.

i am sure ati/amd "cares" about incurring nvidia's wrath . . . nvidia needs amd . . . at least for a few years . . . and amd loves - and "needs" risk

i say good move, amd

except that dosent make sense at all.

the aforementinoed paragraph completely contradicts what is possible and profitable in thne market.

To make the motherboards like that, you would need a entirely new chip design, an entirely new form factor case, an entriely new paradigim shift of all amd motherboard manufacturers along with their manufacturing lines/factories, an overhaul of all motherboard, processor designs, an entirely new chipset, new power supplies and power sockets, and all the companies,(ATI/AMD, ASUS, ANTEC, Samsung, OCZ, ECs, Gigabyte, Lian Li,etc , etc x 11ty billion) working together at once on this.

It would cost the industry hundreds of billions of $$$ for no real benefits(hey look guys my new gpu plugs in this nifty slot!!!)

Not gonna happen. The author dosent know jack about computers or the industry and is jsut throwing out dream scenarios. This is like that 8 year old doodling a "uber 1337" 8000hp jet car. No roots in reality at all and that paragrtaph summarizes it. He might as well scream out I dont know anything about what I'm writing about and this is all bs I'm pulling out of my arse.

 

[Fox5]

I really doubt that AMD will drop ATI's chipset division after acquiring them, it'd be a really stupid move.
Anyhow, AMD probably should just license SLI though, it'd be much easier than fighting an up-hill battle with Crossfire.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: apoppin. . .
i say good move, amd

except that dosent make sense at all.

the aforementinoed paragraph completely contradicts what is possible and profitable in thne market.

To make the motherboards like that, you would need a entirely new chip design, an entirely new form factor case, an entriely new paradigim shift of all amd motherboard manufacturers along with their manufacturing lines/factories, an overhaul of all motherboard, processor designs, an entirely new chipset, new power supplies and power sockets, and all the companies,(ATI/AMD, ASUS, ANTEC, Samsung, OCZ, ECs, Gigabyte, Lian Li,etc , etc x 11ty billion) working together at once on this.

It would cost the industry hundreds of billions of $$$ for no real benefits(hey look guys my new gpu plugs in this nifty slot!!!)

Not gonna happen. The author dosent know jack about computers or the industry and is jsut throwing out dream scenarios. This is like that 8 year old doodling a "uber 1337" 8000hp jet car. No roots in reality at all and that paragrtaph summarizes it. He might as well scream out I dont know anything about what I'm writing about and this is all bs I'm pulling out of my arse.

we are agreed that the author makes no sense.

However, AND is planning a "change" and ATi fits well in their plans. Here is a much better article.

AMD & ATI: The Acquisition from all Points of View by Anand Lal Shimpi

# According to AMD's Hector Ruiz, AMD is partnering with ATI to develop "integrated silicon where it makes sense".

much more

On the investor call where AMD officially announced its plans to acquire ATI, a common theme discussed was AMD's Torrenza strategy. As AMD announced at its analyst day back in June, AMD plans on openly licensing its coherent HyperTransport bus allowing for companies like ATI or NVIDIA to develop GPUs and other co-processors that would plug into a Hyper Transport slot on a motherboard. The benefit is a very low latency, cache coherent interface between the CPU and any other device that it needs to feed large amounts of data to. With ATI operating under AMD's wing, AMD effectively guarantees that we'll see GPUs take advantage of Torrenza.

 

[Wreckage]

I would say AMD was in trouble because they spent so much on ATI. It won't be easy making up that debt. However I personally don't think AMD cares for (or even wants) ATI's high end market. If it was worth while Intel would have been in it by now.

AMD wants ATI for low end GPU's, mobile and integrated tech and maybe chipsets. Not to mention engineers to help in their CPU fight with Intel. ATI can help AMD but the cost may have been too high.

I would have rather ATI not have been bought out killing the competition for us high end buyers. AMD should have bought a smaller (cheaper) company or just entered into a tech sharing agreement (like Intel did with NVIDIA).

I hope it works though. If we lose AMD, we are screwed all around.

*Maybe NVIDIA will buy AMD in a few years.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Fox5
I really doubt that AMD will drop ATI's chipset division after acquiring them, it'd be a really stupid move.
Anyhow, AMD probably should just license SLI though, it'd be much easier than fighting an up-hill battle with Crossfire.

Crossfire and Chipsets were a very small part of ATI's income. In fact if you remove their chipset sales for Intel from the total it's almost nothing. AMD would lose very little by dropping them.

 

[CrystalBay]

Inq readers strike back

 

[Xcobra]

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
Inq readers strike back

PWNAGE!!!!

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
Inq readers strike back

The guys letter where he describes his "hardcore" gamer friend thinking that road debris while driving was mines in BF2 is hilarious. He is real "hardcore"

 

[hans030390]

All I can say is that I think it's too early to really say anything about this situation.

He has some slightly valid points (about crossfire) but makes it sound like SLI and Crossfire are what sell the cards, which isn't true.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
Inq readers strike back

The guys letter where he describes his "hardcore" gamer friend thinking that road debris while driving was mines in BF2 is hilarious. He is real "hardcore"

we're all happy in the pants about Conroe.

is that a British thing...? I like my PC hardware, but it's never made me "happy in the pants" before...

 

[Canterwood]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

we're all happy in the pants about Conroe.

is that a British thing...? I like my PC hardware, but it's never made me "happy in the pants" before...

No it not a British thing.
Just some geek getting all over-excited at Codsroe by the looks.

 

[tcsenter]

If i remember correctly ATi have the biggest market share in mobile phones which gives them the biggest revenues!

ImgTec/PowerVR dwarfs ATI's market share in mobiles and hand-helds (including phones); partners and customers include ARM, Freescale, Fujitsu, Hitachi, Intel, Mitsubishi, Motorola, NEC, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony-Ericsson, Sharp, Texas Instruments, and SKY.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Canterwood

Originally posted by: nitromullet

we're all happy in the pants about Conroe.

is that a British thing...? I like my PC hardware, but it's never made me "happy in the pants" before...

No it not a British thing.
Just some geek getting all over-excited at Codsroe by the looks.

gotcha... I've just heard British people refer to something as being "pants" before

example

...so, I thought it might be a British thing to be "happy in the pants" for a new cpu, but apparently this guy is just a dumbass...

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Fox5
I really doubt that AMD will drop ATI's chipset division after acquiring them, it'd be a really stupid move.
Anyhow, AMD probably should just license SLI though, it'd be much easier than fighting an up-hill battle with Crossfire.

Crossfire and Chipsets were a very small part of ATI's income. In fact if you remove their chipset sales for Intel from the total it's almost nothing. AMD would lose very little by dropping them.

I thought ATI's Intel sales were abyssmal as well? Where ATI has been selling well though, is that nearly every AMD laptop has an ATI chipset.

BTW, AMD merged with ATI, not bought, so wouldn't the combined ATI-AMD have the combined assets of both companies, including the majority of the stock issued and money paid to acquire ATI?