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AMD Athlon XP 2100+ (1.73GHz) to be Released Next Week?

johnm,

The Thoroughbred is an Athlon XP. There won't be a change in the name, as there are no real changes aside from the die shrink to .13um.


AGodSpeed,

The newest Athlon XP's selling at Newegg (at least, the 2000+ model) are AGOIA's, as reported by two people on Hardforum that received them a few days ago. It looks like AMD has begun a new stepping for the 2100+.
 
Nice catch on the .13um typo. The Tbreds will have the passive components on the top of the package like the T-birds, and as you've said, at .13um it will be a tiny 80mm^2. This doesn't really mean anything to me, although I really do like the green color of the organic packaging!! 😀
 
If you don't care don't read the thread

I care, but I'd rather see the Thoroughbred... 😀

The Thoroughbred is an Athlon XP. There won't be a change in the name, as there are no real changes aside from the die shrink to .13um.

Where have you seen this? It's not on the AMD website. Any other news is pure gossip unless AMD announces it. There are changes besides the die shrink, it's supposed to feature 512K L2 cache as well.

But who knows until it actually comes out?
 
There are changes besides the die shrink, it's supposed to feature 512K L2 cache as well.

I would be surprised if this happens. Not that AMD doesn't have the room for it, but I just don't think they'll bother. They're too busy ramping up for SOI and Hammer. The Tbred is just to fend off the Northwood until it becomes....."Hammer time...can't touch this!
 


<< Where have you seen this? It's not on the AMD website. Any other news is pure gossip unless AMD announces it. There are changes besides the die shrink, it's supposed to feature 512K L2 cache as well. But who knows until it actually comes out >>

AMD has already provided all sorts of details on the Thoroughbred at their analyst presentations. During their last presentation in January, they frequently referred to the current cache setup. Moreover, the indicated die size for Thoroughbred makes 512Kb theoretically impossible.

To top it all off, Johan over at Aceshardware actually has one, and while he confirmed there were two very slight design changes to the Thoroughbred (but is under NDA with AMD, so can't disclose them), it still has the same amount of cache and 266FSB.
 
News recently seems to indicate that AMD is having a helluva time getting their .13m process working well. I wouldn't expect large volumes of .13m parts for a while.

Also, is there any word on whether there will be any kind of protection for the core on the tbred's? Because without it, i'm sure people will be crushing that tiny core pretty easily. Imagine trying to mount some of these HSF's on an exposed core 80mm^2!

Kramer
 
The Tbred is just to fend off the Northwood

I've never heard of AMD trying to "fend off" Intel.

AMD has already provided all sorts of details on the Thoroughbred at their analyst presentations. During their last presentation in January, they frequently referred to the current cache setup. Moreover, the indicated die size for Thoroughbred makes 512Kb theoretically impossible.

We'll see when it comes out, I don't believe anything unless I see it in front of me.
 


<< Where have you seen this? It's not on the AMD website. Any other news is pure gossip unless AMD announces it. There are changes besides the die shrink, it's supposed to feature 512K L2 cache as well. >>

Really, all the evidence from AMD has shown that T-Bred is just a die shrink, nothing new.

<< Also, is there any word on whether there will be any kind of protection for the core on the tbred's? Because without it, i'm sure people will be crushing that tiny core pretty easily. Imagine trying to mount some of these HSF's on an exposed core 80mm^2! >>

Well, I haven't heard anything except something said (I think it was Xbitlabs) that Hammer would feature a IHS but nothing about T-Bred.

<< The Tbred is just to fend off the Northwood

I've never heard of AMD trying to "fend off" Intel. >>

Well, it depends on how you look at it. AMD if they wanted to could make T-Bred a much more significant release that would really be agressivley fighting Northwood by adding like the 512k L2 Cache and a 333fsb but all indication says that won't happen, so really T-Bred is for 2 things:

1. Giving the K7 Core one last boost in speed to reach 2GHz and to compete with the Northwood CPU's that will be released between now and Hammer's release
2. To help mature the .13 micron process.
 


<< Really, all the evidence from AMD has shown that T-Bred is just a die shrink, nothing new. >>

And that leads me to believe the packaging will remain the same (no extra core protection). Plus such a cool feature would surely have been announced by now.

It looks like AMD and Intel will slow the pace of new products this year. Can't say I blame them. The current pace is way ahead of what most consumers can use anyway.
 
Interesting, I didn't notice this before, but this ZDNET Germany article reveals some of the specs of Tbred such as a 1.65 core voltage, wattage figures, and other temperature measurements. However, I'm not sure I believe them. Those figures look a lot higher than I expected.
 
can you imagine trying to unlock a .13 micron chip? man. it's small enough as it is. i know my hands won't be steady enough to try and unlock the smaller ones. shoot, i had a hard enough time w/ the 1.0 axia ghz chip i had and that was cake compared to today's xp. i don't even wanna think about unlocking the thoroughbreds.
 
These figures don't surprise me. The Thunderbird already has the benefit of copper interconnects, and the large number of execution units in the K7 architecture make any K7 a bit predisposed towards high temperatures.

The only thing that concerns me is the heat dissapation/die size ratio. At 80 mm square, the chip is less than 66% the size of Palomino, yet it dissapates ~83.5% watts as Palomino. Cooling this thing is thus probably a bit harder.
 
Heres what I'm thinking about...

The change from .18 to .13 will mean that the t-breds produce less heat. Could they produce enough less heat for a 25% overclock? With all the 333fsb boards out there right now, maybe those CPUs would be cool enough to take the FSB from 133 to 166 (much like people are doing with the new northwoods). That would be a SIGNIFIGANT performance bump, as well as a clock speed increase. If a 25% OC was possible, then I think this would take AMD back as the performance leader.

Also, I saw that AMD will be doing the XPPCentral thing again this year, with more giveaways. I don't expect it til the tbreds, but I bet that will sure get people hyped again.

D.C.
 
I am just guessing, but I would think that a .13 micron 2100+ could reach 2158 MHz (13*166). Right now I have an unlocked TBird running at 175 MHz FSB and wouldn't be willing to ugrade until the AthlonXP could reach a 166 MHz FSB w/ a locked multiplier.
 


<< I am just guessing, but I would think that a .13 micron 2100+ could reach 2158 MHz (13*166). Right now I have an unlocked TBird running at 175 MHz FSB and wouldn't be willing to ugrade until the AthlonXP could reach a 166 MHz FSB w/ a locked multiplier. >>



I' bet you could get a pally to 175 fsb if you unlocked it. I just don't know if the tbreds will go that high. I'd like to believe they will, but I haven't been impressed with any AMD as far as overclocking in quite a while. It's almost as if AMD won't let them go that high.

D.C.
 
I don't believe anything unless I see it in front of me

Thats a little closed minded man

AGodspeed

Those temps look more like max temps that the chips can handle, there is no way those are actual temp readings.
 
Here's the data on the max temps for the current Palominos from AMD's web site:

1500+ 1.75V 60W
1600+ 1.75V 62.8W
1700+ 1.75V 64W
1800+ 1.75V 66W
1900+ 1.75V 68W
2000+ 1.75V 70W
2100+ 1.75V 72W (projected)
2200+ 1.75V 74W (projected)

That given, the numbers listed for Thoroughbred seem reasonable:

1900+ 1.65V 61.8W
2000+ 1.65V 63.8W
2100+ 1.65V 65.9W
2200+ 1.65V 67.9W
2300+ 1.65V 70.0W
2400+ 1.65V 72.0W
2500+ 1.65V 74.1W

The temperatures are about what most of us expected, I think, given AMD's existing use of an advanced process with copper interconnects. The Thoroughbred 2100+ dissipates about the same amount of heat as the Palomino 1800+, the Thoroughbred 2400+ dissipates about as much heat as the new Palomino 2100+, etc.

In a whitepaper, AMD quoted 70W for a 2GHz (2500+) XP with SOI (Barton). Thus, at identical speed, it looks like Thoroughbred will reduce heat by 6W to 7W, and Barton will reduce heat another 4W. Clearly, that's how AMD expects to reach 2600+ and 2800+ on the .13um process. The figures, which PC Magazine says are from AMD (and we have no reason to doubt them), pretty much eliminate the possibility of the Athlon ever exceeding the 3000+ rating on the .13um process, even with SOI. Of course...that's why they have Clawhammer.

As far as overclocking goes, the current Palomino AGOGA core will run stable aircooled at up to ~73W (1.76GHz). The new AIOGA core used in the 2100+ looks like it should run stable with air cooling at up to 75W. The Thoroughbred 2500+ @ 2.0GHz dissipates 74.1W over a much smaller 80mm^2 surface area. Personally, I doubt Thoroughbred will go higher than 2.1GHz with air cooling and perhaps 2.2GHz with water cooling.

One thing is for sure, though, assuming these numbers from PC Magazine are correct; there is no way in hell the Thoroughbred is going to overclock to 2500MHz. At 2500MHz, the Thoroughbred would dissipate 90W of heat over the space of an 80mm^2 core. I haven't done the math, but I think it may be theoretically impossible to dissipate that much heat over that sized space.

 
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