AMD Athlon X4 860k throttling

[RWH2]

Hi,

I received this PC as a birthday gift and have been running into CPU throttling ever since I got it; I've not come to any solution yet.

Before I get into the problem, I'll list my specs:

AMD Athlon X4 860k processor @ 3.7GHz
Nvidia Geforce 750Ti 2GB MSI
1600MHz 8GB DDR3 RAM
1TB 7200RPM hard drive
Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit
Motherboard: Gigabyte F2A68HM-HD2 rev 1.1
Cooler: Alpine GT 64 Rev.2

The CPU runs at stock speed with a VID voltage of 1.3875 according to AMD overdrive.
Thermal margin readings sit around 40-50c idle

Now onto the problem:

Under heavy load (all cores maxed or nearing it constantly), the thermal margins will start to drop as time goes on (probably about 3-4mins of a prime95 test) and once they start hitting the single-digits (around 7-8c thermal), the CPU throttles down to 1.7GHz then shoots back up to 3.7GHz and repeats at random intervals. When it throttles, it's not all at the same time (I.e. all cores don't drop to 1.7GHz at the same time, it happens randomly with each core fluctuating between these two speeds however much it wants)

Disabled all power-saving options I could find to no avail. Disabling AMD cool n quiet is a no-go because that permanently drops cores 2 and 3 to 1.7GHz with cores 1 and 2 at 3.7GHz (they throttle the same at high loads but the other two don't obviously).

Turbo core is a BIG NO as well. If the CPU hits 4GHz, throttling occurs much sooner and it doesn't usually take much load to start throttling. VID voltage raises to around 1.45 when this happens.

What is wrong here? No heat is felt when touching around the case. So what's the problem?

 

[Ken g6]

Yikes! Who chose that cooler ("70W of cooling capacity") for that 95W CPU?

You need a better CPU cooler. What's your case? If it doesn't have a model name and number, maybe post pictures? (Post them to a picture-hosting site; link them here.)

 

[RWH2]

CiT 1017 is the case

 

[Ken g6]

Good, it's a normal-sized case. Here's a nice-sized tower cooler that fits FM2.

 

[RWH2]

Oh wow that's cheap. Is this the likely reason, though (that the cooler is insufficient?) It's not my motherboard no? Also, are those voltages fine? I've read that some motherboards can set a high default voltage which would incur higher temps.

Lastly, I've never really done any fan installations before. Is this a straight-forward process? I'm worried that I'll end up breaking it somehow.

 

[Shehriazad]

Try undervolting it first and disabling those pesky boost features.

Just run it at 4 Ghz and see how far you can undervolt. The Athlon 860K is MASSIVELY overvolted just like the 7850K.


There are cases where some people were able to run it 100% stable at 1.19V.
1.21ish is more of a normal matter.

The throttling is rumored to be a thing because FM2/+ has a major chunk of the power pipeline dedicated to the iGPU...so even though the 860K does not even have the iGPU...that stuff still seems to happen.

But yes, disable boost, set manually to 4Ghz, undervolt the crap out of it.

Even the worst chips should run stable at 1.25V(Just try 1.30 first if you're a scaredy cat, undervolting doesn't really have potential to damage the CPU...quite the contrary). Generally if you undervolt you will not see any throttling anymore...at least from personal experience that is the case, and I have had 3 860K in my hands.

 

[RWH2]

Alright - should I do that from the BIOs? And it's the CPU Vcore I should adjust right?

Also I can't disable AMD cool n quiet because that results in cores 2 and 3 to permanently drop to 1.7GHz and remain that way until I enable it. Even if I throw something intensive at both of them, they don't rise. Any idea what causes this?

 

[DrMrLordX]

The A68H chipset would not have been my first choice. But it might not be the source of your problems. Otherwise, the comments here are helpful and are good places to start.

If you have the ability to return that board for another, might I suggest one of the following:

http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-fm2a88mextreme4
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-a88xplus

I'm partial to the Asus, but you may find that particular ASRock board to be an acceptible solution.

edit: I can't account for why disabling CnQ would cause such behavior, but we might be able to get to the bottom of it. Do you know how to find out your processor's p-states? A tool like amdmsrtweaker can tell them to you when run with no parameters (that means, not changing anything, and just looking to see how your CPU is running normally).

 

[Shehriazad]

Alright - should I do that from the BIOs? And it's the CPU Vcore I should adjust right?

Also I can't disable AMD cool n quiet because that results in cores 2 and 3 to permanently drop to 1.7GHz and remain that way until I enable it. Even if I throw something intensive at both of them, they don't rise. Any idea what causes this?

Yea just try Vcore for now, I guess~. NB is usually also a place that is massively overvolted...but not as much on 860K as it is on 7850K. You can fiddle around with that later.


Well and if you undervolt you should be able to disable cool n quiet...and simply set the value manually and don't let it boost, either.

For me it runs throttle free on air and water no matter the cooler. So unless it's getting really hot inside I wouldn't expect that to be the culprit...I mean a friend of mine runs his 860K with the stock cooler! He simply undervolted and was good to go @ perma 4Ghz.

 

[RWH2]

As long as I can't do damage to the CPU by undervolting, I'll give it a try. What vcore would you recommend?

 

[Shehriazad]

This really varies on a per-chip basis.

But basically try 1.35V first...see if it boots. If it does reboot and go for 1.30V.

After that go further down in smaller steps. From 1.30V and downward you will want to run some stresstest to see if your CPU still gets enough juice.

And nah, generally you don't damage your CPU with it, undervolting would do the opposite...extend the lifespan of your CPU.

If you go TOO low then the worst that can happen is that your PC is not stable anymore or if you go WAY too far your PC won't boot up anymore...in which case you'll just have to reset the bios..


Keep your hands off the Northbridge for now I suppose...but that one is super overvolted as well. On some machines it's as high as 1.3-1.4...which is madness, seeing how it can run at like 1.1 . But I've never bothered much with NB Voltage..I just put it at a toasty 1.2 (down from 1.3) and stopped there.

 

[RWH2]

Went into BIOs and tried to adjust the CPU Vcore but all I could do was add more volts rather than decrease.

I.e. Options are: Auto, normal and then it goes something like +0.000v and increases - I don't think that'd undervolt.

Would using AMD Overdrive be better?

 

[LTC8K6]

My AMD board is the same way. Can't undervolt, only overvolt.

 

[RWH2]

Alright, so I used AMD overdrive (with panic mode activated within me) and slowly decreased voltage to 1.25v

Ran a 9min prime95 test (yes not much I know) and didn't see the cores throttle at all. Thermal margin readings were dropping much more slower compared to before. (there were at 24.5c at the 9th min mark)

This same test made cores throttle within 2-3mins @ 1.3875V

Undervolting is definitely compensating for my lack of a good cooler from what I can tell. I tried at 1.3V but it still occasionally throttled (not so heavily but a little bit).

I didn't up the clock speed yet. I've left it at stock speed for now.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yeah...but get a better cooler anyway. :biggrin:

 

[dark zero]

Alright, so I used AMD overdrive (with panic mode activated within me) and slowly decreased voltage to 1.25v

Ran a 9min prime95 test (yes not much I know) and didn't see the cores throttle at all. Thermal margin readings were dropping much more slower compared to before. (there were at 24.5c at the 9th min mark)

This same test made cores throttle within 2-3mins @ 1.3875V

Undervolting is definitely compensating for my lack of a good cooler from what I can tell. I tried at 1.3V but it still occasionally throttled (not so heavily but a little bit).

I didn't up the clock speed yet. I've left it at stock speed for now.

Put at 1.26v to 1.28v. Then Overclock to 4.0 Ghz.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Went into BIOs and tried to adjust the CPU Vcore but all I could do was add more volts rather than decrease.

I.e. Options are: Auto, normal and then it goes something like +0.000v and increases - I don't think that'd undervolt.

Would using AMD Overdrive be better?

I strongly recommend you listen to Ken and get a new cooler. Then you can push it for a good overclock. And extract all the performance you can from it.

Here is a install tutorial on youtube for the Hyper 212 Evo. It is no big deal to do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tIUNh_vEew

There are easier to mount solutions too. Here is a Zalman I use with a 100W APU that is very easy to install. Zalman-CNPS5X-Performa

 

[Justinbaileyman]

+1 on the Hyper 212 Evo.I got one sitting on my 760K overclocked to 4.6Ghz and it keeps it nice and cool.Should do wonders for your 860K and help you get 4.0-4.5Ghz easy peazy..

 

[Shehriazad]

860K is interesting as it sits on both ends of the spectrum.


You can run it at 4Ghz and undervolt like mad all the way to 1.19v if you're lucky...or you can try to overclock (most people hit a wall at 4.5 to 4.7 Ghz) and might even hit 1.5v just to get it stable at that clock.
The scaling is absolutely abyssmal...so as long as you don't NEED the additional mhz (no idea what you're doing with it) I'd recommend trying to just run it undervolted.

A better cooler still won't do you any harm, though! And once you need the performance...feel free to join the other end of the spectrum ^^. (Still...you got a pretty cheap board...I won't recommend going all out)


I put a cheap watercooler on my cube for the novelty of it...but it really just runs at 4.1 Ghz with 1.21v (1.20 with 4.0...I wasn't a lucky one ^^) but I can't get it stable on 4.7 on anything below 1.5v nowadays...insanity I tell you.

 

[zir_blazer]

If you don't want to spend money and aren't interesed in overclocking, you could just undervolt your way. May want to check if you can do so from within the BIOS so you don't have to wait for Windows to load and use a Software that automatically sets the undervolt profile.
A problem that may arise is that you need to know your BIOS. Sometimes the Voltage setting is an offset which is applied to ALL voltage levels, so if you undervolt, it may be stable during Full Load, but may be too little and crash in Idle.

 

[PingSpike]

Because of the voltage scaling issue zir_blazer mentioned I'd probably just put a better cooler on this and call it a day. All that stability testing just takes to much time. It does seem that the cooler just might not be up to the task. But I'm lazy and apathetic about overclocking these days.

Do AMD FM2 quads use different stock coolers than than the dual cores?

 

[RWH2]

Ran a Prime95 stress test on it @ 1.25V (on stock speed) for an hour and it didn't throttle at all, unlike before (where it throttled after 2-3mins running prime95 @ 1.375V). Thermal margins were sitting at around 28-29c as well.

The BIOs itself (at least on mine) only allows overvolting it seems, there's no option I can see to decrease the volts.

I'll definitely look into a better cooling system, though. My main aim was trying to resolve the throttling issues, which I seem to have done.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Bear in mind that if you get a better cooler, you may be able to run a lower voltage without sacrificing stability while maintaining your current clockspeed. My A10-7700k (same 2m chip, just different bin + active iGPU) can do 4 GHz at around 1.22v vcore. You can probably get close to that.

 

[Shehriazad]

Bear in mind that if you get a better cooler, you may be able to run a lower voltage without sacrificing stability while maintaining your current clockspeed. My A10-7700k (same 2m chip, just different bin + active iGPU) can do 4 GHz at around 1.22v vcore. You can probably get close to that.

Also didn't win the undervolt lottery, huh? :[ I want a 1.19v chip so bad...just cause. :/

 

[RWH2]

I tried to increase clock speed to even 3.8GHz but that just resulted in games immediately stuttering heavily. Reverting back to 3.7GHz removed the stutter. Clock speeds weren't even being throttled judging from Overdrive, but the stutter was still there. Increasing voltage didn't seem to have any impact at the increased clock speed (3.8Ghz) - thermal margins were around 40c as well.

I guess I have a bad chip maybe?