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AMD Athlon Kabinis vs Pentium Baytrail Atoms

A

avtek21

Member
AMD+Desktop+Q1+2014+_VTB_Page_14.jpg

Sweclockers reporting new AMD Athlon Kabinis with four Jaguar cores and GCN 128 SPs will be selling first qtr next year for $35 to $54! Benchmarks and features in several charts.

http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/17995-amd-forbereder-kabini-for-stationara-datorer-med-sockel-fs1b
 
avtek21 said:
Since Toms HW measure 10w J1750 Baytrail Celeron at 20w, then Pentium will be same or higher with Kabini and new Beema Jaguar/Puma APUs.
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Can you link? I've never seen Intel go over TDP. What does an equivalent Kabini measurement look like using the same methodology?

It is completely valid to prefer 25W over 10W CPUs in desktops, but I don't believe for a second these two CPUs are anywhere near each other in power consumption.

Edit: I found the article. The 20W is clearly system power under load. The Kabini SOC alone is 25W TDP.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bay-trail-celeron-j1750-performance,3614-4.html
 
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FwFred said:
Can you link? I've never seen Intel go over TDP. What does an equivalent Kabini measurement look like using the same methodology?

It is completely valid to prefer 25W over 10W CPUs in desktops, but I don't believe for a second these two CPUs are anywhere near each other in power consumption.
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power.png

Clearly shows Celeron Baytrail J1750 at around 20w, with some spike to near 30w.
 
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avtek: the text clealy says its whole system power. You understand the difference between system power measured at the wall and TDP?
 
FwFred said:
The Kabini SOC alone is 25W TDP.
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TDP is not power consumption. Anandtech clearly showed that A4-5000 which is 15W TDP rated never reached 15W for the entire system. A 25W TDP kabini will have lower than 20-15W power usage.
BayTrail may have lower power usage but it will also have lower performance overall.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6981/...ality-of-mainstream-pcs-with-its-latest-apu/2
xm5u.jpg


I also suspect the 15W TDP is perhaps a bit conservative, total platform power consumption with all CPU cores firing never exceeded 12W (meaning SoC power consumption is far lower, likely sub-10W).
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avtek21 said:
Sweclockers reporting new AMD Athlon Kabinis with four Jaguar cores and GCN 128 SPs will be selling first qtr next year for $35 to $54! Benchmarks and features in several charts.
Click to expand...

The slides clearly states that quadcore performance starts at 70$.

AMD+Desktop+Q1+2014+_VTB_Page_11.jpg


We already had a thread about it.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2356199&page=6

And CPU performance wise, Kabini is a snail. CPU/GPU wise Haswell Celerons also beat it for cheaper price. Its another misfit product on AMDs road to being the new VIA.
 
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Bit of a shame that memory support only goes up to DDR3-1600; I was hoping to see faster speeds supported on the desktop, to make up for that single channel. Still, should make for some nice nettops.
 
Apparently these cpus will be socketable in a new socket (fs1b), so between AM3, FM2(+), and this socket, AMD will have 3 sockets targeting entry-level/mainstream desktops....
 
avtek21 said:
From Toms, AMD Kabini and Pentium and i3 (17w), which one stays closest near TDP spec?
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You can't compare the two together because the tests are not the same.

Also, its very likely the best Bay Trails are in the Tablet parts, and Celeron and Pentium parts are similar to Desktop Atoms that they are not optimized so much for efficiency and size, but for cost.

Why ATOM road is not a way for Intel to become a new VIA but Kabini is for AMD ?? Double standards ?? 🙄
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Not really. Because Atom does very well for its intended(and rapidly growing) market, and Kabini really only fits the value Notebook, something that's increasingly being taken up by Tablets of all sorts, Chromebooks, Androidbooks.
 
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TDP IS NOT MAXIMUM POWER CONSUMPTION.

Understand this. Please read up on what TDP means. All SOCs, even ARM SOCs, go beyond their rated TDP rating in terms of power consumption given the proper CPU/GPU load. TDP is not power consumption.
 
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IntelUser2000 said:
You can't compare the two together because the tests are not the same.

Also, its very likely the best Bay Trails are in the Tablet parts, and Celeron and Pentium parts are similar to Desktop Atoms that they are not optimized so much for efficiency and size, but for cost.
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If i remember correctly, Desktop ATOMs are different dies at different manufacturing process than Tablet ATOMs.

IntelUser2000 said:
Not really. Because Atom does very well for its intended(and rapidly growing) market, and Kabini really only fits the value Notebook, something that's increasingly being taken up by Tablets of all sorts, Chromebooks, Androidbooks.
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Kabini was never meant to be a Tablet oriented product. You could say that Temash was not successful in the tablet market, but the Jaguar family was not designed for Tablets alone. Kabini products can be found in entry level Laptops to high margin Embedded boards and soon to entry level low power desktops.
 
AtenRa said:
TDP is not power consumption. Anandtech clearly showed that A4-5000 which is 15W TDP rated never reached 15W for the entire system. A 25W TDP kabini will have lower than 20-15W power usage.
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The article did show that but it only measured power for CPU-only tests. Unlike a lot of Intel CPUs that have a wide turbo swing where either CPU or GPU can take it A4-5000 has no CPU turbo swing whatsoever and statically allocates a big chunk of its TDP towards GPU. Notebookcheck for instance showed that under GPU heavy tests the power consumption went way up.

That doesn't mean your statement is wrong if we look at GPU-light scenarios only, it just means that AMD hasn't exaggerated TDP as vastly as this alone suggests.

AtenRa said:
If i remember correctly, Desktop ATOMs are different dies at different manufacturing process than Tablet ATOMs.
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That was the case last generation but is probably not the case now. All of the parts called BayTrail are probably the same die.
 
Exophase said:
The article did show that but it only measured power for CPU-only tests. Unlike a lot of Intel CPUs that have a wide turbo swing where either CPU or GPU can take it A4-5000 has no CPU turbo swing whatsoever and statically allocates a big chunk of its TDP towards GPU. Notebookcheck for instance showed that under GPU heavy tests the power consumption went way up.

That doesn't mean your statement is wrong if we look at GPU-light scenarios only, it just means that AMD hasn't exaggerated TDP as vastly as this alone suggests.
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Notebookcheck measures the entire Laptop power consumption including the Monitor. Do you have any links to check out ??



Exophase said:
That was the case last generation but is probably not the case now. All of the parts called BayTrail are probably the same die.
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No PCI-e on the Desktop ATOMs ???
 
AtenRa said:
Notebookcheck measures the entire Laptop power consumption including the Monitor. Do you have any links to check out ??
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http://www.notebookcheck.net/Short-Review-AMD-A4-5000-APU-Kabini.93173.0.html

The point here isn't absolute power but the jump you get going from Cinebench to FurMark, then Prime95 + FurMark - it's that last one that gives you the best picture of the difference between a heavy CPU-only load and what would push the limits of TDP.

AtenRa said:
No PCI-e on the Desktop ATOMs ???
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Or I/O fused off on different packages, I don't really know, could be either I guess.. we'd need to see die shots..
 
Exophase said:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Short-Review-AMD-A4-5000-APU-Kabini.93173.0.html

The point here isn't absolute power but the jump you get going from Cinebench to FurMark, then Prime95 + FurMark - it's that last one that gives you the best picture of the difference between a heavy CPU-only load and what would push the limits of TDP.
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Yes but now give me a link to Pentium 2020m for the same workloads to check the power consumption difference between the two.



Exophase said:
Or I/O fused off on different packages, I don't really know, could be either I guess.. we'd need to see die shots..
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I will try to find out later on but I believe those two are different dies.
 
Is FS1B the first user-replaceable SoC socket? It'd be interesting to see the longevity of the motherboards considering there's no separate chipset that needs to be upgraded. If the socket supports multi-channel RAM from the start a single motherboard could potentially last 2-3 generations.
 
strata8 said:
Is FS1B the first user-replaceable SoC socket? It'd be interesting to see the longevity of the motherboards considering there's no separate chipset that needs to be upgraded. If the socket supports multi-channel RAM from the start a single motherboard could potentially last 2-3 generations.
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It might be a long wait, since the roadmap shows no updates in the entire 2015 for that platform. Plus I assume its still single DIMM.
 
AtenRa said:
Yes but now give me a link to Pentium 2020m for the same workloads to check the power consumption difference between the two.
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Why does it matter? I'm just saying that AMD wasn't being grossly conservative with their TDP numbers, they're set like this for a reason.

That doesn't mean I think you should use TDP to compare products, you should still look at power consumption when performing some common task.

AtenRa said:
I will try to find out later on but I believe those two are different dies.
Click to expand...

Okay, please let us know if you find out, I'm curious to see it too.
 
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