AMD 955 vs Intel i7 920 Gaming Value Showdown

[taltamir]

btw... in regards to the op... shouldn't it be a showdown between the core2 and the p2? since those are the ones priced similarly?

 

[LoneNinja]

Originally posted by: v8envy
That's not how I interpret it at all. At lower resolutions where the CPU matters more than the GPU the 920 yields 96 vs 83.4 FPS. That's a 14% speed advantage Intel. Yes, it could be X3 is not a cpu hog (it does run fine on my E2180) -- that doesn't mean the Phenom "overpowers" the i7 at all.

And meh, when you view the total system cost (including OS, case, PSU, hard drive(s), peripherials, monitor) the price difference is hardly 30%. I just picked up a $199 i7 from Microcenter. Yes, I'll be paying $40 more for a board and $50 more for RAM. But unless you can put together a complete, high performance AMD system on a $300 budget you can hardly say the i7 premium is 30-40%. In absolute dollars it's right down there with a price of a tank of gas.

I was going to say I have no micro center any where near me, but it turns out I have one that is about a 90 minute drive from here. (I just checked because I was going to say microcenter isn't an option for me)

Either way, I did get my PII/motherboard/4Gb ram for under $300 thanks to newegg combos.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: fusion238

Originally posted by: aigomorla
u need to look at the overclocking potential of both as well.

PHII wont top a D0 i7 when it comes to overclocking potential.

The PC World review says there are people getting the Phenom II 965 to 4.6+ Ghz!

on LN2 but i highly doubt it unless ur running sub ambient in the negatives..

while i can do that on ambient water on 3 i7's...

:T

U cant compare the two in overclocking unless someone wants to pull out a TWKR. And even then, i'll guess i'll pull out my W3580 and 975 and see how far u can go on the same cooling.

:X

Have u guys even seen a W3580 or a W3570?
There intel's unlocked Xeon's which tear up overclocking.

 

[taltamir]

heh.. LN2 requires you to REFILL THE TANK every few hours... I don't want to "gas up" my computer so to speak to make it work...

 

[Nahsavtoo]

Unfortunately I do not have a Microcenter where I live (North Caorlina). Nothing close enough to balance the cost of the gas and time it would take anyway (closest is 330mi away).

Maybe I need to move to be closer :laugh:

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: Rhoxed
but this trash really needs to stop, quoting newegg reviews is like buying white van speakers and thinking they really are 2000$+ speakers

They often are $2000 speakers. The catch is that they're stolen

no, they are just REALLY CHEAP speakers and they are ripping you off... they always use the same story "we picked it up in the factory, but they gave us 2 pairs instead of 2 speakers... we need to get rid of the extra one and get back to work"...
look it up on wikipedia. I actually had that offered to me on multiple times

I said no because I didn't want stolen goods, but since then I learned its just super crappy speakers being overpriced like hell.

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: taltamir
on the plus side, you could turn off your space heater once you get the P2... 140 watt of heat blowing at your feet... (before overclock)

You know, I can't speak about power consumption because I do not own anything remotely scientific to measure power consumption of a given system (not to mention a CPU), but I can say with a reasonable confidence that PII system is not as hot as i7 system. (I had them side-by-side in front of me) It is not as hot as Kentsfield + X48 combo, either, if my memory serves me right. Yorkfield + P45 combo is probably cooler but I cannot say for sure because I haven't had a full-blown Yorkfield processor.

this goes against every review i ever read...

The difference isn't really a big deal. Seriously, thereotically 125W vs 140W? All chips are going to produce more heat once overclocked, and I'm sure the 965 will be down to a 125W chip sometime in the near future.

 

[taltamir]

120 watt is still too high... look how much power the intels take...

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: taltamir
btw... in regards to the op... shouldn't it be a showdown between the core2 and the p2? since those are the ones priced similarly?

Depends what you're looking at. AM3 and 1366 are competing DDR3 platforms while AM2+ and 775 are competing DDR2 platforms. Phenom II works on both AM3 and AM2+, so it's important to specify which socket you're planning to use. Pricing a DDR2 Phenom against the i7 is not fair and neither is pricing a C2Q against a DDR3 phenom.

heh.. LN2 requires you to REFILL THE TANK every few hours... I don't want to "gas up" my computer so to speak to make it work...

You could always buy a refrigeration system if you wanted. The technology used in a fridge and the technology used to make liquid nitrogen are same. heat pump refrigeration. I'm surprised I haven't seen a computer use something like this, not even on the internet.

The grossly overstated 30-40% price premium on an Intel build shrinks to a much lower percentage very quickly when you view the whole budget. It's very rare a gamer would only upgrade just the CPU. Looking at egg pricing it looks like there's a $80 difference in CPU prices and the most popular MSI phenom board is $180 -- not far off from the large selection of $150-210 X58 boards. Let's call it a $100 price difference. Taken in perspective of a $600 budget for a CPU+board+RAM+video that's a 17% difference. Throw in a faster hard drive and $100 PSU and there's yet more delta shrinkage. In my case the price difference of an i7 vs 955 based build was roughly zero.

Who buys a faster hard drive for games? I'm still using a 120gb IDE drive from probably 7 or 8 years ago and it can still load Fallout 3 in 17 seconds. I even made a video of this for a debate in the games forum, video.

Saying you buy a new video card when you buy a new system is as silly as buying a new system every time you buy a new video card. The upgrade cycles are completely independent. There are lots of people out there who are using oddball matches like an E4400 CPU paired with a GTX 295 video card because this pair still works. When games get CPU bottlenecked (ie Arma 2), would you replace your $500 video card just for the hell of it? Of course not. Nobody does.

Since I like window shopping online, I'll even price out what a new system would cost. This is just what my system would be and it may not be as good as you would pick. I'll price it on the canadian newegg site just so it will also include proper shipping and handling costs which can sometimes be significant.
dvd drive, case, 1tb hard drive, AMD 770 motherboard, video card for the old system, PSU, 4gb DDR3 1600, Phenom II 955 black (why buy a 965 when it's the same thing). Handling is $34, shipping is $44, grand total cost is $736.
The i7 system would be the same thing except it's an i7 920 with X58 motherboard. Total cost of i7 system is $910 after including the shipping and handling.

So there's your answer. The i7 system is 24% more expensive. Ideally it would use either 3gb or 6gb ram but that would mess up the direct comparison.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

If on a tight budget (value gaming) I would go with a q9450 $159 microcenter and a $120 sli mobo 4gb 1066 ram $50 pair it with a couple of gtx 275's. Overclock the piss out of it and it would smoke PII.

Don't give me that crap about a dead socket. I usually do a major overhaul every year or two so screw a dead socket. That means nothing to me.

Fortunately I spend whatever I want on my rig. Oh yeah got my i7 $159 brand new from microcenter (I had ordered a open box i7 and they sold it so I got a new one), $180 new dx58so mobo, $120 barely used corsair dominator ram 6gb. Now get me a PII that will outperform (or even come close) my i7 and in the same price range and I'll buy it.

 

[taltamir]

Depends what you're looking at. AM3 and 1366 are competing DDR3 platforms while AM2+ and 775 are competing DDR2 platforms. Phenom II works on both AM3 and AM2+, so it's important to specify which socket you're planning to use. Pricing a DDR2 Phenom against the i7 is not fair and neither is pricing a C2Q against a DDR3 phenom.

Of course it is fair, you are artificially creating division where none should exist. A platform exists, it has a certain cost and a certain performance level, you compare it... it is as simple as that.

You could always buy a refrigeration system if you wanted. The technology used in a fridge and the technology used to make liquid nitrogen are same. heat pump refrigeration. I'm surprised I haven't seen a computer use something like this, not even on the internet.

My fridge does not get -50 degrees C. LN does. LN is just much cooler than phase change...but yes, you CAN buy a 700$ phase change cooler, it is the size of a mini fridge and sits next to the computer box, and does not require refills.

Who buys a faster hard drive for games? I'm still using a 120gb IDE drive from probably 7 or 8 years ago and it can still load Fallout 3 in 17 seconds. I even made a video of this for a debate in the games forum, video.

Try neverwinter nights 2... some games are just designed badly, they are fun to play, but they are a pain to get to run right.

Saying you buy a new video card when you buy a new system is as silly as buying a new system every time you buy a new video card. The upgrade cycles are completely independent.

I totally agree... the only tied upgrade cycles I have are the holy trinity of ram mobo and CPU... video card, PSU, case, HDD, and optical drive are all on a completely independent upgrade cycle

 

[taltamir]

Don't give me that crap about a dead socket. I usually do a major overhaul every year or two so screw a dead socket. That means nothing to me.

Only very VERY rarely do I find a legitimate CPU upgrade for my existing socket compared to replacing mobo + cpu at the same time... the vast majority of times i just get a mobo + cpu + maybe ram at the same time. half the time it is last gen socket because it is so affordable compared to the performance you get.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: fusion238

AMD Phenom II 955 system is about 30-40% less than the Intel i7 920 but when it comes to games, it proves that it overpowers the Intel in games like COD. What is surprising is that in the newest games like X3: Terran Conflict, the high priced Intel is no match for the AMD Phenom II 955 even at stock clock!

AMD Phenom II 955 vs Intel i7 920 Gaming Showdown

This reviewer only does averages; i wonder what the minimums were in X3:TC

i only compared 720 X3 at 3.5GHz - it's highest stable OC - with Q9550s at 4.0 GHz and the intel CPU had better minimums in X3:TC; but in my case, it appears that a 4th core might be really helpful for that specific game.

Of the 14 game benchmarks i tested, it was pretty damn close between the (stock/OC'd) Ph IIs X2/X3 and (stock/OC'd) Penryn. Only one game - ET-QW - seemed better suited to the AMD architecture than Intel's.

Generally, if you have SUPER-FAST graphics, you want the fastest QuadCore that you can overclock
- However, if you have a GTX275-GTX280-HD4870 class of card, it is not so important; 3.0-3.5GHz seems plenty for most single-GPU graphics .. and your CPU clockspeed just starts to get important with 4870 CrossFire - at least from what i have tested, you do want 3.5 GHz and up.

If a game does not take advantage of quad-core, you need simply the fastest clockspeed your dual can muster; if it does, no amount of core speed will "make up" for not having the 'extra' core(s).

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: OILFIELDTRASH
If on a tight budget (value gaming) I would go with a q9450 $159 microcenter and a $120 sli mobo 4gb 1066 ram $50 pair it with a couple of gtx 275's. Overclock the piss out of it and it would smoke PII.

Don't give me that crap about a dead socket. I usually do a major overhaul every year or two so screw a dead socket. That means nothing to me.

Fortunately I spend whatever I want on my rig. Oh yeah got my i7 $159 brand new from microcenter (I had ordered a open box i7 and they sold it so I got a new one), $180 new dx58so mobo, $120 barely used corsair dominator ram 6gb. Now get me a PII that will outperform (or even come close) my i7 and in the same price range and I'll buy it.

Have you even looked at reviews? For gaming situations, an overclocked Core 2 Quad is going to perform (essentially) the same as an overclocked Phenom II. One is not going to smoke the other. And for that matter, right now, in most games, these two systems will give you a similar gaming experience as a Core i7 platform.

Tada: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3533&p=3 Phenom II @ 3.8 vs. Core 2 Quad @ 4.25 with HD4870 Xfire. Also good luck getting a Q9450 to 4.25 GHz.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: fusion238

Originally posted by: aigomorla
u need to look at the overclocking potential of both as well.

PHII wont top a D0 i7 when it comes to overclocking potential.

The PC World review says there are people getting the Phenom II 965 to 4.6+ Ghz!

on LN2 but i highly doubt it unless ur running sub ambient in the negatives..

while i can do that on ambient water on 3 i7's...

:T

U cant compare the two in overclocking unless someone wants to pull out a TWKR. And even then, i'll guess i'll pull out my W3580 and 975 and see how far u can go on the same cooling.

:X

Have u guys even seen a W3580 or a W3570?
There intel's unlocked Xeon's which tear up overclocking.

Unless I am mistaking I beieve AT said that they got their PhII samples to 4.3GHz on air. I thought I read that one was sent by AMD, one was an off the shelf part. I'll see if I can find the page.

*edit - Not sure if I was wrong about multiple samples, I might be confusing AT with somet other site or just be wrong. At any rate AT says here that their retail chip got to 4.3GHz on Win7 64 bit... I don't see if they mention air or water. Not too shabby. My PhII 940 seems to run out of steam right around 3.7+GHz at 1.5 volts. It looks like the 45nm process is maturing and the 965's may actually have more head room than earlier PhII's, not just come from the factory with some of the overclocking room just used up with a higher multiplier.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
Tada: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3533&p=3 Phenom II @ 3.8 vs. Core 2 Quad @ 4.25 with HD4870 Xfire. Also good luck getting a Q9450 to 4.25 GHz.

Did anyone read the comments?

I have my phenom II 720 overclocked to 3570 Mhz using a Xigmatek cooler. Without the video card and hard drive, I spent $398 plus tax. This is for a gigabyte micro-ATX board, Corsair PSU, Mushkin 1066 DDR2 Ram, Case, Xigmatek CPU cooler and two Xigmatek case fans. Now I am waiting for the 4890 to come out and prospecting some SSDs for a Raid setup.
I love how much money I saved that I can now use towards a video card and two SSDs. So far I love the performance on my new PC.

you spent so little because you went with mATX.

mATX mobos SUCK more than full ATX

troll much?

i know your dad lost his job and your mother to an american, but would it not be more constructive to seek therapy. we didn't do it.
i know you hurt, would you like a hug? some gummy bears perhaps?
a OO buck load to the forehead?

your off to a great start kid. suicide, please consider it...

You're worse than he is.

What an ugly, witless, post. Not that his was much better.

Was yours any better? Maybe we should just continue the trend of garbage not worth reading with my post.

asdfjkl; MmmK? /end all the trash talk

Holy hypocrisy Batman!

Actually, I didn't attack him directly, or tell him to commit suicide, or anything like that, I just attacked his post.

You, on the other hand, did exactly what you criticized. Couldn't you see that?

That's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

 

[Leyawiin]

Originally posted by: v8envy
That's not how I interpret it at all. At lower resolutions where the CPU matters more than the GPU the 920 yields 96 vs 83.4 FPS. That's a 14% speed advantage Intel. Yes, it could be X3 is not a cpu hog (it does run fine on my E2180) -- that doesn't mean the Phenom "overpowers" the i7 at all.

And meh, when you view the total system cost (including OS, case, PSU, hard drive(s), peripherials, monitor) the price difference is hardly 30%. I just picked up a $199 i7 from Microcenter. Yes, I'll be paying $40 more for a board and $50 more for RAM. But unless you can put together a complete, high performance AMD system on a $300 budget you can hardly say the i7 premium is 30-40%. In absolute dollars it's right down there with a price of a tank of gas.

Must be a damn big gas tank you're filling. I could run my little car for two months on what I saved on the CPU and motherboard - and those are the two variables in a build that one should be basing percentage saved on.

I'm not naive - I know an i-7 920 is the better all-around processor (and may become more so as time goes by), but I needed that $100 in my pocket right now and the only thing I do beside surfing the net is game. The AMD system is perfect for my needs.