AMD 762 (MP) Northbridge and VIA 686B Southbridge Incompatibilities

[NFS4]

So much for that "cheap" SMP system. Hopefully they will get things worked out. Here's the info from 2CPU:


<< This paper describes two system-level incompatibilities with the AMD-762 System Controller (northbridge) and the Via Technologies, Inc VT82C686B (southbridge):

1. Inability to support the IOAPIC in the Southbridge due to incompatibilities in the Write Snoop Complete (WSC#) protocol. This prevents compliance with Microsoft's PC-2001 specification.

2. Potential data corruption when switching into the ACPI S3 power management state (Suspend to RAM) in systems that use registered DDR DIMMs due to incompatible sequencing of the PCIRESET# pin. >>


AMD's White Paper on the issue

BRING ON THE NFORCE BABY!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tigerbait]

<< BRING ON THE NFORCE BABY!!!!!!!!!!! >>




I hear that.

 

[Shmorq]

Doesn't AMD have their own southbridge solution? Why must they use VIA's?

 

[NFS4]

<< Doesn't AMD have their own southbridge solution? Why must they use VIA's? >>


The reason is cost. Sure, there are MP boards out there that use AMD Southbridges, but they are EXPENSIVE. Look at Tyan's MP board. It's $500.

It's the same reason why 760 boards use the 686B Southbridge. It's all a matter of cost. And using the 686B with the 762 and an IDE interface allows mobo makers to bring down the cost of an MP board to around $200 - $250 bucks.

Anyway, I won't be buying one...NFORCE BABY!!!!!!

 

[Duvie]

Not overly shocking coming from a via chipset...Via needs to stick to something they know how to build..WAIT..That would be just about nothing!!!

C'mon Nforce...Hopefully they will produce a smp platform or the tyan will fall to mid 300 levels and make it worth it...

This is kinda mucking up my year end plan for upgrade...Via them bastardssss!!

 

[zzzz]

people at viahardware will tell you the problem is in AMD's chipset!

 

[NFS4]

<< people at viahardware will tell you the problem is in AMD's chipset! >>


LOL, these are the same people that say that the nForce isn't worth the money and that a KT266 is better.

 

[NaughtyusMaximus]

<< a KT266 is better >>



Well, till the nforce comes out, the KT266 is better...

 

[NFS4]

<<

<< a KT266 is better >>



Well, till the nforce comes out, the KT266 is better... >>


IMHO, the 760 is better than the KT266. And I won't touch another VIA chipset. I'm fed up with this KT133A.

 

[randomlinh]

when when when. i'm actually looking into a mATX board... if it's onboard lan and sound are good, just need to throw on my scsi and i can have a slimlined lan pc!!

 

[SUOrangeman]

BTW, there are apparently THREE versions of Tyan's Athlon SMP boards now shipping. The cheapest is on PriceWatch for $385 or so (yeah, would like it lower) and it does NOT have onboard SCSI nor the server QM logic(?). THe next model adds the logic and the grandpappy has the works.

Oh yeah, you can configure some of your own boxes from some of these vendors. I got up to $9.8K on one config with 4HS IDE RAID and TWO 18&quot; LCDs. YUM.

-SUO

 

[Pabster]

Whoever made the suggestion that KT266 is superior to AMD-761 needs a wakeup call. AMD-761 is the most stable, reliable, and best performing solution out there right now. No one knows for sure about nForce (it certainly looks promising) and we already know KT266 was/is a total farce. VIA just doesn't make quality, reliable chipsets. I mean, I can't remember the last time I had a board with a VIA chipset that didn't present some form of incompatibility -- and this was WAY before Socket-A. I'm not one of those people who &quot;refuses&quot; to run a VIA-chipset based board, but I'm certainly fed up with the incompatibilities and such that they always present. I will not run a VIA SMP solution, for certain (the very idea that KT266 is SMP-capable sent a chill down my spine.)

Anyways, again, AMD-761 is the only option right now. With DDR prices so cheap, there's just no reason to stick with SDRAM and a KT133-series board. 761 performs better and the reliability is untouchable. I despise the pairing of the AMD-761 with the VIA 686B, but I guess we have to live with it for now. I know I'm not alone when I say that I would pay an extra $50 even for a board with the AMD-766 south bridge.

 

[Pabster]

NFS4 wrote:

&quot;IMHO, the 760 is better than the KT266. And I won't touch another VIA chipset. I'm fed up with this KT133A.&quot;

Agreed 100%. I'm not only fed up with KT133A, I'm fed up with 686B and the very mention of KT266.

 

[ViRGE]

<< people at viahardware will tell you the problem is in AMD's chipset! >>



Actually, it would seem to be that the problem actually is AMD's chipset. Considering that the 686B is older than the 762, and the 761 didn't have any problems; it would seem to be that AMD changed something(probably inadvertantly) in the process of making the 762 that causes the problem.

 

[LXi]

Those who still thinks AMD760 is superior to KT266 really needs a wake up call. Look at the retraced Shuttle AK31. Just like somebody predicted, people will rush to get the nForce just so they can dis VIA more, how funny. Im not trying to put down the nForce tech at all, in fact I think it's going to be great, but the phylosophies of these mindless VIA bashers are obvious flawed.

 

[WetWilly]

I'm curious why, with all the issues with the 686B, that AMD 761 system board manufacturers aren't using the VT8231 southbridge which basically looks like the VT8233 plus Super I/O minus V-Link. It's used with VIA's ProSavage northbridge, works with the AMD 761 northbridge, and apparently doesn't have the 686B issues. Only thing is that it isn't pin-compatible with the 686A/686B.

 

[LXi]

Works with AMD761? You sure about that? 'cause I dont think the AMD761 supports V-link at all.

 

[NFS4]

<< Those who still thinks AMD760 is superior to KT266 really needs a wake up call. Look at the retraced Shuttle AK31. Just like somebody predicted, people will rush to get the nForce just so they can dis VIA more, how funny. Im not trying to put down the nForce tech at all, in fact I think it's going to be great, but the phylosophies of these mindless VIA bashers are obvious flawed. >>


Listen, you bite me once and I learn. I will not be bitten again by VIA. How could anyone let such a seriously flawed motherboard out in the first place (the Shuttle board. That's like Ford delivering a V8 Mustang only working on 6 cylinders)? I'll take my chances with AMD or nVidia on this one. But with my KT133A, I've had to deal with:

1) USB devices dropping out in Win2k
2) The SB Live! problem which had me stumped for MONTHS until it was officially announced that there was something wrong with the combo (after I sent in my CDRW for RMA b/c I thought that it was causing the corruption problems when burning).
3) Random lockups in Win2k here and there.

I'm not the kind of person that likes to be held up by hardware problems. It's funny how my KX133 was a gem, but the KT133A was such a pain in the a$$. But, never again. You won't get me for the third time.

 

[LXi]

Heh... yea, after all you made the decision to go with Abit, I guess they're getting back on you. Im not going to say much, but somebody ought to know how to make a stable and troublefree KT133A, and Abit isnt one of them. It's unfortunate you cannot differentiate whose fault it was.

 

[NFS4]

<< Heh... yea, after all you made the decision to go with Abit, I guess they're getting back on you. Im not going to say much, but somebody ought to know how to make a stable and troublefree KT133A, and Abit isnt one of them. It's unfortunate you cannot differentiate whose fault it was. >>


Well, my KX133 board WAS an Abit board as is my KT133A (I also had a rock solid BH6 from Abit). And we all know that IWill, EPox, and Asus all have their share of problems in the KT133A form-factor.

In case you didn't know **NEWSFLASH** USB problems and the SB Live! issue were NOT just related to Abit.

And it's funny that the same people that complain about people ragging on VIA are the same ones that will rag on Abit to no end

 

[LXi]

<<Well, my KX133 board WAS an Abit board as is my KT133A (I also had a rock solid BH6 from Abit). And we all know that IWill, EPox, and Asus all have their share of problems in the KT133A form-factor.>>

Well, have you had any experience with a non-Abit KT133A board? Didnt think so 'cause you told us you'll always buy Abit unless something goes wrong. Now something does go wrong and you blame it on VIA instead? I just dont think that Abit KT7A is representative of all KT133As.


<<In case you didn't know **NEWSFLASH** USB problems and the SB Live! issue were NOT just related to Abit.>>

No they werent just related to Abit, but some manufacturers know how to deal with that kind of problems. I personally have never had any problems with the KT133A, I tried but I just cant get the thing to malfunction like everybody say they're suppose to. Maybe Im just lucky?


<<And it's funny that the same people that complain about people ragging on VIA are the same ones that will rag on Abit to no end>>

Now please dont mix them up, it isnt VIA's fault Abit make problematic boards. You'll probably never switch out of Abit because you can always find some excuses to blame it on something else like the chipset. But that's your business, I dont wanna be part of it. My point is, some people out there know how to make good motherboards(regardless of chipset) like Iwill, MSI, or Asus; some people dont, so why not give somebody else a shot?

 

[Insane3D]

Oh look..it's the hate VIA bandwagon again...these are getting almost as popular as the ever present AMD vs. Intel threads. No offense NFS4, but you are basing your whole experience with the KT133A chipset on one Abit motherboard. I had the KT7A-R when it first came out, and I had very similar problems. You know how I solved them? I got the Iwill. I have not had one crash at all, and it runs day in and day out with a 165mhz FSB no less. I use a USB printer, USB mouse, USB keyboard and they all work flawlessly. I have not even rebooted in almost 4 months, and that time was just to install a new NIC. The only problem I am aware of with the 686B is an incompatibility with the SB Live! card...why doesn't anyone blame the SB Live? Anyway, once the problem was discovered, a fix was prompty released and it's fine now. Also, what chipset exactly would we have been running a 266mhz Athlon on before the DDR chipsets if there was no KT133A? Would we have people regularly hitting 160mhz (320mhz DDR) FSB speeds without that chipset? Would we be modifying an old AMD 750 Irongate board to take a socket thunderbird? I will not say VIA has not had problems, but you guys really make it sound like we would be better off if they didn't even bother to release any chipsets. Do you think the Athlon would have ever gotten to the point it is at now without Via? Would we still be using PC100 SDRAM? How much are tickets on this hate Via bandwagon?

 

[wasnlos]

LXI and INSANE3D
i second your opinions/posts on this tread.

before the KT133- and KT133A-versions from ABIT that company was the first choice in my eyes because of all the great experiences with their BX-boards. that good feeling about ABIT all of a sudden turned into horror when i tried out their ATHLON-mobos and all the errors and symtoms mentioned above occurred. to be true i thought that VIA-chipsets in general could be the problem but with other brands like ASUS, MSI, EPOX and TYAN there always was a workaround provided by those companies (i.e. BIOS-updates) that solved the problem, at least in conjunction with new 4in1-drivers.

and what can i say about CREATIVE and their SB-LIVE, every other soundcard works, so who's to be blamed ???
i tried GUILLEMOT/HERCULES, TERRATEC and STEINBERG and no problems at all. BTW, thank VIA for the regular releases of new 4in1-drivers, because especially CREATIVE is not able to fix any problem, i actually wonder if they know at all what they re doing.

 

[Sugadaddy]

I agree Via chipsets might have occasional problems, but it's not nearly as bad as people like to think. KX133 was very good, and KT133 was also. (my Asus K7V never crashes, and I've put together a few MSI k7T-Pro2A systems and all run perfectly) It seems KT133A is getting a bad rep, but can you tell me what well known problems it has besides the SB Live issue?

The Abit KT133A boards are by far the worst boards made using that chipset. So many people have problems with these boards it's not funny. I'm amazed people insist on buying Abits... USB problems aren't the chipset manufacturer's problem, they're the board makers'.

If I was going DDR right now, I'd buy an AMD760 board, because I think the boards are better. KT266 boards had problems mostly because the manufacturers were too eager to get them out quickly, Via isn't really to blame. (MSI's board, Soltek having to redesign it's mobo, etc.)

 

[damocles]

So now we know what Ram we want, what about the chipset? The AMD 760 has been out and working now for nearly nine months but we are just now seeing mainstream retail boards using it. Why is that? Well, it seems to me that AMD was counting on VIA to run with the KT266 some months ago, but they could never make it happen. Or maybe they could have made it happen but did not want to seeing as they could sell the hell out of KT133 and KT133A chipsets for good long time. VIA has now gotten a working version of their KT266 chipset, that will not be renamed KT266Pro as they had thought about, but will be called the &quot;enhanced&quot; version. KT266 Enhanced is what is about to be pushed out by VIA. The actual nomenclature might vary a bit, but that is the gist of it. Another rumor running round is that VIA never really could make the KT266 work solidly so they simply took the SiS 735 DDR chipset and reverse-engineered it. Yes, the conspiracy theories abound! What the real question here is if AMD will continue to mass produce the 760 or fall back on VIA to take up that slack so that AMD can worry about things besides chipsets. My take on this is the hell with VIA and stick with the &quot;proven&quot; AMD 760, but that is only going to be an option to us if the supply chain stains filled. Word is AMD Europe is already back behind the enhanced version of the KT266.

HardOCP aren't too Via friendly

Hardocp