AMD 7000 Series Desktop Graphics Parts Delayed to Q2 or Q3 2012?

[Madcatatlas]

I pop in to check out one thread, and am hit with a big fat reminder in the face why the VC&G forum sucks so bad. Why are you guys arguing nVidia 5xx series vs. AMD 6xxx series in a thread about AMD 7xxx series?

Someone trolled you guys hard.

Because to right some wrongs, you have to do "some wrongs"....

 

[Grooveriding]

I pop in to check out one thread, and am hit with a big fat reminder in the face why the VC&G forum sucks so bad. Why are you guys arguing nVidia 5xx series vs. AMD 6xxx series in a thread about AMD 7xxx series?

There is a small contingent of posters who can't help but piss on and derail any thread about AMD cards that may be positive or any thread about nvidia cards that may be negative.

You can just go back in any thread like this and see exactly who made the posts that turned it off topic.

Someone trolled you guys hard.

lol

 

[96Firebird]

There is a small contingent of posters who can't help but piss on and derail any thread about AMD cards that may be positive or any thread about nvidia cards that may be negative.

But this is a thread about something negative for AMD (delayed launch), and then it was set off when someone said something positive about Nvidia (performance increase of next gen), no?

 

[Silverforce11]

best
   [best]
–adjective, superl. of good with better as compar.
1.
of the highest quality, excellence, or standing: the best work; the best students.
2.
most advantageous, suitable, or desirable: the best way.
3.
largest; most: the best part of a day.

1. quality and excellence: AMD cards, they dont die or explode when a driver update fail.
2. advantageous, suitable or desireable: these are all subjective as whats desirable or suitable differ for people, therefore, perf/$$ and perf/watt fits here as these two are often the most desirable for most people. Thus, AMD cards are the win.
3. largest and most: NV can have this, their gpu dies are freaken huge and consume the most power.

The fastest card that money can buy is prolly the 6990 or variants of it. Although the ARES 590 from Asus is pretty bad ass, but costs twice as much.

 

[notty22]

But this is a thread about something negative for AMD (delayed launch), and then it was set off when someone said something positive about Nvidia (performance increase of next gen), no?

Exactly, it's possibly design related. They announced public goals and are now missing them ?

 

[tviceman]

1. quality and excellence: AMD cards, they dont die or explode when a driver update fail.
2. advantageous, suitable or desireable: these are all subjective as whats desirable or suitable differ for people, therefore, perf/$$ and perf/watt fits here as these two are often the most desirable for most people. Thus, AMD cards are the win.
3. largest and most: NV can have this, their gpu dies are freaken huge and consume the most power.

The fastest card that money can buy is prolly the 6990 or variants of it. Although the ARES 590 from Asus is pretty bad ass, but costs twice as much.

If AMD isn't paying you, then I really truly feel sorry for you.

If you keep this up and get banned, I won't really feel sorry for you
-ViRGE

 

[badb0y]

If AMD isn't paying you, then I really truly feel sorry for you.

Same could be said for any fanboy of any product. Get off your high horse .

 

[7earitup]

This thread has officially let me down.

 

[tviceman]

Same could be said for any fanboy of any product. Get off your high horse .

What he said sounds more like a mission statement delivered by an employee trying to justify why he feels a particular product or brand name is better than another. I mean, it's actually quite amusing. Reading between the lines really makes me think he is actually offended by other people who present data that goes against his GPU beliefs.

No where in this thread have I said anything negative about AMD as a company or about their products. But yet Silverforce is jumping all over opportunities to try to discredit Nvidia employees and/or their products. It's like when two kids have an argument over who's dad is better, the kid that ends up losing the argument resorts to calling the other kid names.

 

[Grooveriding]

 

[SocalMark]

LMAO to the post above.

 

[badb0y]

lol'd

What he said sounds more like a mission statement delivered by an employee trying to justify why he feels a particular product or brand name is better than another. I mean, it's actually quite amusing. Reading between the lines really makes me think he is actually offended by other people who present data that goes against his GPU beliefs.

No where in this thread have I said anything negative about AMD as a company or about their products. But yet Silverforce is jumping all over opportunities to try to discredit Nvidia employees and/or their products. It's like when two kids have an argument over who's dad is better, the kid that ends up losing the argument resorts to calling the other kid names.

You both are actually doing the same thing just in different ways. He is much more provocative in his approach and yours is more subtle.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just thought it was funny when you said that you hope he was on AMD's payroll. Thread is amusing me though please continue.

 

[Eugene86]

1. quality and excellence: AMD cards, they dont die or explode when a driver update fail.
2. advantageous, suitable or desireable: these are all subjective as whats desirable or suitable differ for people, therefore, perf/$$ and perf/watt fits here as these two are often the most desirable for most people. Thus, AMD cards are the win.
3. largest and most: NV can have this, their gpu dies are freaken huge and consume the most power.

The fastest card that money can buy is prolly the 6990 or variants of it. Although the ARES 590 from Asus is pretty bad ass, but costs twice as much.

the [heck]?

Did I miss something or is this guy just trolling hardcore?

No profanity please
-ViRGE

 

[Shape_of_Grey]

the [heck]?

Did I miss something or is this guy just trolling hardcore?

LOL, I'm usually for AMD...but, damn, the guy is on some good [stuff].

Anyway, suck they got delayed. But on the bright side, I'm glad I picked up a 2nd 5850 to CF, should hold me over nicely. :thumbsup:

No profanity please
-ViRGE

 

[RussianSensation]

Unfortunately, I do believe that was in reference to GPGPU (double-precision floating point) and therefore is not directly related to graphics performance (although I'm sure they will still dramatically improve performance per watt).

.

You are right, but I have little doubt that Kepler will be impressive. For starters, NV likely revamped the way their teams are managed. If you remember, JHH sighted that one of the main issues on the Fermi project was that 2 teams were working separately on Fermi and there was little communication between them which resulted in a design flaw that needed 6 months to fix. Secondly, NV has a better DX11 base to start with. Even if they increased SPs and TMUs inside GTX580 by 50%, and increased clocks by 10-15% and made 0 changes to Tessellation, that already would be a very fast GPU. But from comments of NV's GPU engineers, they are hinting at introducing virtual memory, pre-emption, etc.

The HD 5850 and 5870 were better for the money than the GTX 470, and the GTX 480 was simply horrible.
Overall ever since 2008 AMD has consistently won against NVIDIA overall, just like Intel has consistently won against AMD since 2006, but seeing the others win has been an exception to the rule. I don't think we'll see that change.

Ok and this is where we take the AnandTech Forum Opinion and put it against facts. Winning is relative since it automatically implies 2 sides: (1) business side and (2) consumer side.

From the business side, HD5000 and HD6000 series didn't win anything outside of fanboi noise on forums.
- Without going into detail on a per card basis, just look at the discrete GPU market share where NV stands at 59%. There probably isn't even a point of comparing NV's vs. AMD's profitability.

AMD has not been able to make a dent in desktop discrete GPU market share since Q2 2010 despite the 6 months Fermi slip. Although this time because Bulldozer is such a [big] flop, if there is not a clear winner between NV and AMD, it may be best for us to give our $$ to AMD if we want them to survive.

HD7000 series is going to need to be spectacular imho to have any chance against Kepler. Let's hope it is since GCN is a brand new architecture. Imho "Winning" doesn't mean squat unless it translates into more market shares, which then translates into more profits - and so far NV has been killing AMD on both of those fronts.

Sure, it's very easy to please enthusiasts when you sell a $350 GPU for $270, or a $450 GPU for $300 because it won't sell for $450. I am not complaining about a $199 HD4850 or a $299 HD4870 or a $269 HD5850 or a $230 HD6950 2GB, etc. as a consumer. But from a corporate perspective, AMD's GPU division has been losing the war since 2008 pretty badly. Care to guess how much $$ NV makes off a $450-500 GTX580?

What if BMW was selling its cars for 20-30% less than Audi or Mercedes. Apparently, NV is in the business of making $$ and keeping market share, while AMD struggles to gain market share by undercutting each and new generation just to appeal to the consumer. I remember when X850XT cost $499. That's the winning ATI I remember.

No profanity please
-ViRGE

 

[Rifter]

1. quality and excellence: AMD cards, they dont die or explode when a driver update fail.

Its posts like this that destroy any cred you could have had and place you firmly in the fanboy to be ignored catagory.

As for this thread's original purpose i didnt really expect new cards this year or even early next year. I mean sure AMD keeps saying they will be out this year but remember what AMD had said over the past few years here. BD will work with AM3, lie # 1. BD will be out in Q2 2011, lie # 2. BD will have improved IPC, lie # 3.

So i have zero faith in AMD keeping there word/release dates and it will take them 2-3 years of hitting every goal and release date for any faith in them to be restored IMO.

Sure ATI WAS a good company but they got bought by AMD and it was the worst thing that could have happened to them. Because AMD at this stage in the game couldnt manage themselves out of a paper bag.

 

[tviceman]

You are right, but I have little doubt that Kepler will be impressive. For starters, NV likely revamped the way their teams are managed. If you remember, JHH sighted that one of the main issues on the Fermi project was that 2 teams were working separately on Fermi and there was little communication between them which resulted in a design flaw that needed 6 months to fix. Secondly, NV has a better DX11 base to start with. Even if they increased SPs and TMUs inside GTX580 by 50%, and increased clocks by 10-15% and made 0 changes to Tessellation, that already would be a very fast GPU. But from comments of NV's GPU engineers, they are hinting at introducing virtual memory, pre-emption, etc.

Agreed with all of this. In general, I am looking forward to next gen cards from both camps. I ended up getting the gtx560ti this time around, but I wish I would have bit the bullet and got the gtx570 instead. Oh wells. I can wait until next year.

 

[Silverforce11]

If AMD isn't paying you, then I really truly feel sorry for you.

I was merely responding to a user who claimed NV had the "best" cards by taking that definition.

It's just to show "best" is purely subjective.

Feel free to have your own interpretations of best.

 

[Silverforce11]

Its posts like this that destroy any cred you could have had and place you firmly in the fanboy to be ignored catagory.

Are you inflicted with a terrible short term memory or do i need to remind you all the fiasco NV endured with their cards dying due to driver updates over the years.

Just the most recent example, reference gtx590 on release, without the proper drivers, a slight OC (or some not OC at all) will cause them to die.

So how is my original statement false and completely biased? Care to provide examples to prove my statement wrong or because you can't, you claim i'm a fanboy.

 

[Rifter]

Are you inflicted with a terrible short term memory or do i need to remind you all the fiasco NV endured with their cards dying due to driver updates over the years.

Just the most recent example, reference gtx590 on release, without the proper drivers, a slight OC (or some not OC at all) will cause them to die.

So how is my original statement false and completely biased? Care to provide examples to prove my statement wrong or because you can't, you claim i'm a fanboy.

I've yet to see one legit claim of a 590 dieing on stock clocks. Overclocking you are always taking a risk, i myself have fried components(mostly motherboards) overclocking and its no fault of the hardware maker the fault lies on the person doing the overclocking. I take full responsability for anything i have fried overcloking and 590 users should do the same. I know they didnt overclock well and most users expected more but not all GPU's/CPU's are overclocking kings.

I know they had the one driver release a few years ago that turned off the fan and fried certain cards but it was fixed the same day, everyone makes mistakes. Intel a much larger company screwed up with the SB mobo chipset bug, AMD screwed up Phenom with the TLB bug. Everyone makes mistakes, it happens.

But to say "AMD cards, they dont die or explode when a driver update fail."

Is a obviously misleading/trolling point to post.

 

[utahraptor]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the hybrid liquid cooling solution mentioned in the article in the first post of this thread?

 

[Silverforce11]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the hybrid liquid cooling solution mentioned in the article in the first post of this thread?

It probably points towards pretty high TDP gpus again, so i doubt we will see a reduction in power use.. once you pass "acceptable power use" limits, its hard to go back i guess.

 

[lehtv]

Or perhaps AMD wants to offer their own cooling solution for the enthusiast market. It doesn't mean every reference 7900 will have a liquid cooler, the basic ones could have the same blower type cooler.

 

[SirPauly]

Are you inflicted with a terrible short term memory or do i need to remind you all the fiasco NV endured with their cards dying due to driver updates over the years.

Just the most recent example, reference gtx590 on release, without the proper drivers, a slight OC (or some not OC at all) will cause them to die.

So how is my original statement false and completely biased? Care to provide examples to prove my statement wrong or because you can't, you claim i'm a fanboy.

It wasn't specifically over-clocking but over-volting because one can over-clock a GTX 590.

 

[SirPauly]

You are right, but I have little doubt that Kepler will be impressive. For starters, NV likely revamped the way their teams are managed. If you remember, JHH sighted that one of the main issues on the Fermi project was that 2 teams were working separately on Fermi and there was little communication between them which resulted in a design flaw that needed 6 months to fix. Secondly, NV has a better DX11 base to start with. Even if they increased SPs and TMUs inside GTX580 by 50%, and increased clocks by 10-15% and made 0 changes to Tessellation, that already would be a very fast GPU. But from comments of NV's GPU engineers, they are hinting at introducing virtual memory, pre-emption, etc.



Ok and this is where we take the AnandTech Forum Opinion and put it against facts. Winning is relative since it automatically implies 2 sides: (1) business side and (2) consumer side.

From the business side, HD5000 and HD6000 series didn't win anything outside of fanboi noise on forums.
- Without going into detail on a per card basis, just look at the discrete GPU market share where NV stands at 59%. There probably isn't even a point of comparing NV's vs. AMD's profitability.

AMD has not been able to make a dent in desktop discrete GPU market share since Q2 2010 despite the 6 months Fermi slip. Although this time because Bulldozer is such a f8ck8n flop, if there is not a clear winner between NV and AMD, it may be best for us to give our $$ to AMD if we want them to survive.

HD7000 series is going to need to be spectacular imho to have any chance against Kepler. Let's hope it is since GCN is a brand new architecture. Imho "Winning" doesn't mean squat unless it translates into more market shares, which then translates into more profits - and so far NV has been killing AMD on both of those fronts.

Sure, it's very easy to please enthusiasts when you sell a $350 GPU for $270, or a $450 GPU for $300 because it won't sell for $450. I am not complaining about a $199 HD4850 or a $299 HD4870 or a $269 HD5850 or a $230 HD6950 2GB, etc. as a consumer. But from a corporate perspective, AMD's GPU division has been losing the war since 2008 pretty badly. Care to guess how much $$ NV makes off a $450-500 GTX580?

What if BMW was selling its cars for 20-30% less than Audi or Mercedes. Apparently, NV is in the business of making $$ and keeping market share, while AMD struggles to gain market share by undercutting each and new generation just to appeal to the consumer. I remember when X850XT cost $499. That's the winning ATI I remember.

AMD did make some noise with the HD5XXX family and their execution advantage and the fruits of this translated into over-all market share leadership not too long ago. It's just that nVidia has some differentiation and a complete, mature fermi family and shows how potent this family has been because it did take share away from AMD, even with AMD offering a newer 6XXX generation.