AMD 64 3700+ socket 754 or AMD 64 3000+ socket 939?

[zp2063]

Tiger Direct has a deal on an Asus K8V deluxe soket 754 for 229.99 after rebate. Before seing this deal I was looking at an Asus A8V socket 939 and Athlon 64 3000+ Venice core. The price for this combo is about $234. I'm looking to upgrade from my dual 1200MP system so either will be a huge improvement. I have an existing AGP AIW 9800 Pro I want to continue using, so I'm not trying to build the best sytem out there. I will probably play with OC'ing a bit, but it is not a priority. I just want a good solid system for the next 2 years.

Can anyone comment on which one is the better value here? Please assume the TD rebates are fine as I've never had any issues with them in the past.

Thanks!
/zp

 

[Zap]

Both are reasonable values, neither is a great value.

A64 3700+ s754
2.4GHz
1MB cache
.13 micron
single channel RAM

A64 3000+ s939
1.8GHz
512K cache
.09 micron
dual channel RAM

With all else being equal, at stock speeds the 3700+ should walk all over the 3000+. The 3000+ may be able to be overclocked to higher than the 3700+ can be overclocked. The 1MB cache probably makes up for lack of dual channel RAM. The 3000+ likely will run cooler at same GHz. Neither of the listed motherboard will overclock very much (VIA K8T800 chipset doesn't have AGP lock) so you'll be stuck at running near stock speeds. As such, the socket 754 setup is a much better deal out of the two you list.

I have a suggestion for you right in your price range that would be definately better than the socket 939 setup you listed, and not as good as the socket 754 setup you listed while running stock speeds. However, this setup should overclock enough to be better than the socket 754 system (even with both overclocked).

Socket 939:
Zalman 7000 HSF $28
Asrock 939DUAL $68
A64 3200+ $132
$228 total

Hmmm, take a look at my choices for a socket 939 setup. That HSF is a nice baseline unit, suitable for reasonable overclocks while being quieter than the retail box unit. The CPU is the 3200+ 2.0GHz model. Ewiz has a killer price on them in OEM flavor. The Asrock motherboard is a hot item these days for budget overclocking. It has some issues such as lack of extreme voltages so don't expect crazy overclocks, but it will overclock to some degree. It also has a PCIe slot along with the AGP for when you want to upgrade your AGP video card. It will support all the current socket 939 CPUs including the x2 models, plus has an upgrade slot for future socket M2 support (Asrock has a history of offering these upgrade daughterboards for around $30-40).

I think the socket 939 setup I listed is a better choice than the two you listed because the motherboard is a better overclocker (you mentioned you may play with overclocking) plus the HSF will be better than the ones included in those other two. Also, the 3200+ doesn't give up as much stock performance to the 3700+ as the 3000+ you mentioned.

 

[Hacp]

Tiger direct and rebate do not belong in the same sentence.

 

[n7]

Zap's recommendation = much better, except for the Zalman.
I have that one, & like many others, i've found it is barely even better than stock cooling, if at all.

I'd say what Zap said, & get an XP-90C, or the TT Big Typhoon if you wanna spend a bit more.
Also, you could shave a bit off that by going with a s939 Venice 3000+, except that with the AsRock mobo, it may be limited by HTT speeds when OCing.

 

[zp2063]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Tiger direct and rebate do not belong in the same sentence.

Everyone's experiences are different, but lately TD has really tried to improve their rebate process becasue (it seems) so many people have a bad opinion of them on this. I have done 6 or so TD rebates over the past 12 months with no problems. Fast and easy right into my pay pal account.

 

[zp2063]

Zap,

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll look at your suggested configuration. Couple of questions: The A64 3700+ s754 setup is single channel, is that a function of that particular MB, or the 754 architecture? How much difference does dual vs. single channel make?

Thanks,
zp

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: n7
Zap's recommendation = much better, except for the Zalman.
I have that one, & like many others, i've found it is barely even better than stock cooling, if at all.

I'd say what Zap said, & get an XP-90C, or the TT Big Typhoon if you wanna spend a bit more.
Also, you could shave a bit off that by going with a s939 Venice 3000+, except that with the AsRock mobo, it may be limited by HTT speeds when OCing.

I choose the Zalman because I wanted to link all at one vendor to save on shipping (Ewiz doesn't stack shipping like Newegg) and Ewiz doesn't carry Thermalright, otherwise I would have choosen the XP-90 with fan (SVC has it for $30 plus shipping, OOS right now).

The Venice 3000+ isn't going to be that much less than the $132 3200+... just checked and it is $9 less. But even better!!! You can get the 3200+ for $128.24 by going to Ewiz through a Froogle link.

Originally posted by: zp2063
The A64 3700+ s754 setup is single channel, is that a function of that particular MB, or the 754 architecture? How much difference does dual vs. single channel make?

Function of the architecture. Difference? In memory intensive applications can be noticeable. In memory intensive benchmarks can be an extreme difference.

In normal applications and benchmarks, the higher true clockspeed will win.

In true gaming benchmarks, should be dependent on the video card and not the CPU/RAM.

Just to confuse you even more, PCClub has the socket 754 A64 3400+ for $130. That CPU is just like the 3700+ except only 512K cache. It has the same cache as the socket 939 Venice core 2000+/3200+/3500+ (1.8/2.0/2.2GHz) and runs at a higher frequency of 2.4GHz, meaning it is capable of outperforming a socket 939 3500+ in anything not memory intensive.

Ultimately, at stock speeds the socket 754 should be a better performance choice with better CPU performance overshadowing lower RAM performance. Overclocked, CPU performance is equalized thus giving the nod to socket 939.

 

[forumposter32]

http://www23.tomshardware.com

This should give you a clearer picture of the difference.

 

[Zap]

That's an interesting link. They forgot to mention the socket used, but that can be figured out... the 3000+ is a Winchester, but close enough. The 3700+ wins on almost everything. Notable exceptions are any benchmark with the word "memory" in it, four benchmarks labeled "Wstream" something or other and "3DMark05 Graphics." My thought on the last item is this: 3DMark05 tried to test graphics card only. Thus, the scores for various CPUs are almost identical, however the socket 939 does beat socket 754 by a whole 8 points. Why? Well, I'm thinking since RAM is faster in socket 939, 3DMark05 may use more textures than fit into the frame buffer, thus using system RAM. In this case, if system RAM is faster, faster graphics performance.

In a real-world game where the CPU is used to do stuff like computer AI control and such, the higher GHz CPU wins - in this case the socket 754 3700+. Then again, why does the 3400+ Newcastle with 512K cache beat the 1MB cache 3700+ Clawhammer in 3DMark05 with 5 points when they both used the same motherboard and video card? Strangeness...

Checking some other numbers... The socket 754 3400+ beats the socket 939 3200+ (as it should according to AMD's rating) in much the same way, winning all the benchmarks except for a near loss in 3DMark05 and losses in the "memory" and "Wstream." These two CPUs are around the same price.

The socket 939 3500+ and socket 754 3400+ was a closer battle. Again, everything "memory" went to socket 939. With this comparison the slower GHz socket 939 manages to take some more wins away from socket 754. It very well should, since AMD rates it higher. AMD also prices it higher. Still, the MUCH cheaper socket 754 CPU takes over half the benchmarks. The cost difference between the two can buy a Sempron 2500+ as a spare CPU. :laugh:

Overclocking/upgrades aside

 

[zp2063]

I've been seriously considering the recomendation for the Asrock 939Dual, A64 3200+ & Zalman 7000 HSF. How hard would it be to overclock it to beat the S754 3700+ setup I'm also considering? Would it be stable at this overclocked speed? I plan on getting decent RAM, but nothing much better than value ram.

Any replies are greatly appreciated. As stated I have a 9800 Pro AGP that I want to use along with a WD 74GB Raptor.

Thanks,
zp

 

[zp2063]

I went with the 3200+, ASRock s939 Dual and a gig (512x2) of OCZ Premier memory (as reviewed by anandtech). I also got the zalman cooler as suggested. I will attempt to OC it past the performance of the s754 3700+.

Thanks to those who helped. This system should be a good steup up from my Dual 1200MP and AGP 4x system.

/zp

 

[blckgrffn]

That 3200+ should hit 2.4 ghz no problem with a memory divider. Just set the ram to 333 speeds, the FSB to 240, the VCORE to 1.45, and finally the HT frequency multiplier to 3x. That should do it, that way you will now have a 3800+, which you can check on the graphs yourself

Good luck! :thumbsup:

Good suggestions as always, Zap

 

[Maluno]

If you're going to be oc'ing, check out the new 939 opterons, they look to be excellent performers for CHEAP!

 

[Lyfer]

Ewiz has the 3700 for under $160 last time I checked. Add the $75 DFI Infinit Nforce 4 board and you got a damn good gaming box (just need to add in a fast PCI-e graphicks card).

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Maluno
If you're going to be oc'ing, check out the new 939 opterons, they look to be excellent performers for CHEAP!

seconded, 3.2 ghz on air from the 144 is phenomenal.

 

[zp2063]

Thanks for the suggestions on the Opteron, but unfortunately I already ordered the 3200+. Had I not, I would have seriously looked at the 144 for a nice overclock.

blckgrffn- Why should I set the ram to 333 instead of the rated 400? Last time I overclocked anything was in the pentium 3 days.

Thanks,
/zp

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: zp2063
Why should I set the ram to 333 instead of the rated 400? Last time I overclocked anything was in the pentium 3 days.

Thanks,
/zp

Because if you got DDR400 RAM & you want to OC, you cannot just raise the HTT (akin to FSB) & expect the RAM to handle that.

Running a 166 (or 333) divider, aka 5/6 divider means the RAM will run at 0.833 of the HTT speed.

So let's say you want to run the CPU @ 2500MHZ (10*250).
If you are using the 5/6 divider, that will put your RAM speed at 208 (DDR416), which it should be able to handle.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Hacp
Tiger direct and rebate do not belong in the same sentence.

agreed it took me a year and a half to finally collect all my rebates. Asked me to send them in twice. (Good thing I made copies) hahaha

 

[zp2063]

Originally posted by: n7

So let's say you want to run the CPU @ 2500MHZ (10*250).
If you are using the 5/6 divider, that will put your RAM speed at 208 (DDR416), which it should be able to handle.

n7,

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation. The whole memory divider thing is new to me. I have a lot to learn

Thanks again,
/zp