AMD 45nm in production now

[Viditor]

"Sunnyvale (CA) - While refusing to speak about previously announced future products like Bobcat and Bulldozer, AMD's CTO Dirk Meyer did indicate during their Q3 conference call that Fab 36 is manufacturing 45nm processors "right now".

He said they're on track for production ramp in the first half of 2008. AMD's "first offense" for 45nm products will be server and desktop spaces, though Meyer said he would provide additional guidance in December. Basic yields are being attained right now at 45nm using existing materials"

TG Daily article

 

[Keysplayr]

That would most likely be July, without any delays. And an exact definition from AMD's PR dept. for "production" is warranted. What does "production" mean to them, or better still, what do they want us to believe it means?

If they are punching out 45nm K10 wafers/processors "right now", why would we need to wait until H1 '08 to see any of it? Notice they didn't say Q1 '08, so we know we won't see a thing til at least April (6 months away, with a legendary silver lining outlook).

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
That would most likely be July, without any delays. And an exact definition from AMD's PR dept. for "production" is warranted. What does "production" mean to them, or better still, what do they want us to believe it means?

If they are punching out 45nm K10 wafers/processors "right now", why would we need to wait until H1 '08 to see any of it? Notice they didn't say Q1 '08, so we know we won't see a thing til at least April (6 months away, with a legendary silver lining outlook).

Well, if history is any guide (and sometimes it isn't)...AMD first began production of 65nm in June of 06. The first major release of 65nm chips wasn't until December 06, so that's about a 6 month period...
By that measurement, we should see 45nm in the April timeframe (depending on how well the ramp goes).

I see we are agreed...

 

[MarcVenice]

The sooner the better, but it's good to know they got a fab running that's producing 45nm cpu's. It at least means they are going in the right direction, no matter what their definition of production is ...

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
The sooner the better, but it's good to know they got a fab running that's producing 45nm cpu's. It at least means they are going in the right direction, no matter what their definition of production is ...

That brings up another interesting tidbit from the CC...

"It was reported Fab 30 has now been shut down and is in the process of conversion to Fab 38"

This means of course that AMD is now 100% 65nm (Fab 30 was their last 90nm Fab) until the transition. So for those of you looking to get those older 90nm chips on the cheap, better do it quick as they no longer make them (i.e. they are selling from inventory only).

 

[Phynaz]

A couple of corrections here.

1H08 is a guesstimate for 45nm. I like how they stated they are feeling better about the statements they made in the past. In other words "whew! we may not get nailed too hard for BS'ing on this one" I'll post the rest of the quote that you left out

"We're building 45 nanometer microprocessors as we speak and those two facts give us increasing confidence in the public statements we've been making for some time around our intent to be starting our production ramp of 45 nanometer processors in the first half of next year.

As far as all 65nm today, again, the quote from the conference call.

"our mainstream processor business will be based on 65 nanometer 300 millimeter technology as we leave this year.

No where did they state they are 100% 65nm, or will they be. Notice the word "mainstream".

Didn't you say the exact same thing three months ago?

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Phynaz
A couple of corrections here.

1H08 is a guesstimate for 45nm. I like how they stated they are feeling better about the statements they made in the past. In other words "whew! we may not get nailed too hard for BS'ing on this one" I'll post the rest of the quote that you left out

"We're building 45 nanometer microprocessors as we speak and those two facts give us increasing confidence in the public statements we've been making for some time around our intent to be starting our production ramp of 45 nanometer processors in the first half of next year.

As far as all 65nm today, nope. Again, the quote from the conference call.

"our mainstream processor business will be based on 65 nanometer 300 millimeter technology as we leave this year.

No where did they state they are 100% 65nm, or will they be. Notice the word "mainstream".

Didn't you say the exact same thing three months ago?

That's quite the spin...it's ALWAYS a guesstimate. Nehalem is a guesstimate with even longer odds (since they aren't producing them yet) if you want to spin it that way.

As to all 65nm, if Fab 30 is shut down for conversion, I don't suppose you could enlighten us as to where the 90nm chips would be coming from...?

From July

"AMD?s Fab 36 Fully Converted to 65nm Process Technology "

BTW...that's 100% of output. AMD went 100% 65nm wafer starts at Fab 36 in March.

 

[Phynaz]

You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

Why do you disagree with the exact statements made by Dirk Meyer?

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips (are you thinking of Chartered?)...
All of their performance chips were 90nm...the point is that the only ones left are the ones in inventory (though that is still a good number of chips).
Their upcoming performance chips in production are K10s.

Edit: Mainstream Processer Business...you are (of course) assuming that this is the business of "mainstream processers" instead of processers being their "mainstream business"...
It's semantics I know, but obviously you've made an error as they no longer have 90nm lines.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips (are you thinking of Chartered?)...
All of their performance chips were 90nm...the point is that the only ones left are the ones in inventory (though that is still a good number of chips).
Their upcoming performance chips in production are K10s.

Edit: Mainstream Processer Business...you are (of course) assuming that this is the business of "mainstream processers" instead of processers being their "mainstream business"...
It's semantics I know, but obviously you've made an error as they no longer have 90nm lines.

Yes, I meant Chartered.

So you are are saying the 2.8Ghz+ K8's are no longer being manufactured? That would include the 5600+, 6000+, and 6400+.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips (are you thinking of Chartered?)...
All of their performance chips were 90nm...the point is that the only ones left are the ones in inventory (though that is still a good number of chips).
Their upcoming performance chips in production are K10s.

Edit: Mainstream Processer Business...you are (of course) assuming that this is the business of "mainstream processers" instead of processers being their "mainstream business"...
It's semantics I know, but obviously you've made an error as they no longer have 90nm lines.

Yes, I meant Chartered.

So you are are saying the 3Ghz+ K8's are no longer being manufactured?

Not on 90nm, no. Is there some reason that they couldn't have 3GHz+ K8s on 65nm?
That should be the mid line processer in the near future after all...

Edit: BTW, vis a vis Chartered...while they certainly can order 90nm chips from them, I believe they are going to be 100% 65nm soon as well (if they aren't already). Also, it's more expensive to get them from Chartered, so I don't think this will be a viable option except as overflow.

 

[Phynaz]

Read here.

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips (are you thinking of Chartered?)...
All of their performance chips were 90nm...the point is that the only ones left are the ones in inventory (though that is still a good number of chips).
Their upcoming performance chips in production are K10s.

Edit: Mainstream Processer Business...you are (of course) assuming that this is the business of "mainstream processers" instead of processers being their "mainstream business"...
It's semantics I know, but obviously you've made an error as they no longer have 90nm lines.

Yes, I meant Chartered.

So you are are saying the 3Ghz+ K8's are no longer being manufactured?

Not on 90nm, no. Is there some reason that they couldn't have 3GHz+ K8s on 65nm?
That should be the mid line processer in the near future after all...

Becuase their own product documentation say they are 90nm? There is not a 65nm sku for the chips you say exist. You also have to account for the "black edition" chips that were just announced, they are also 90nm.

I'll make it easy for you.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Becuase their own product documentation say they are 90nm? There is not a 65nm sku for the chips you say exist.

That's right, but there's a 3 month lag between starting production and delivery...which is plenty of time to put a sku in place (possibly during the Phenom launch). Keep in mind that there should be no changes needed at the OEM level or the channel...changing nodes doesn't always change chip function (i.e. you can only tell the difference from the sku, not from the chip's function).

Edit: thanks for the link...it shows exactly what I mean. Notice there's no sku for Phenom there either, and it's shipping in November!

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Becuase their own product documentation say they are 90nm? There is not a 65nm sku for the chips you say exist.

That's right, but there's a 3 month lag between starting production and delivery...which is plenty of time to put a sku in place (possibly during the Phenom launch). Keep in mind that there should be no changes needed at the OEM level or the channel...changing nodes doesn't always change chip function (i.e. you can only tell the difference from the sku, not from the chip's function).

A node change will ALWAYS result in a new sku.

So first AMD's executives are wrong, and now their own product documentation is wrong.

Wow, you've manageged to surprise me again. Are you sure you're not really Scientia?

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Becuase their own product documentation say they are 90nm? There is not a 65nm sku for the chips you say exist.

That's right, but there's a 3 month lag between starting production and delivery...which is plenty of time to put a sku in place (possibly during the Phenom launch). Keep in mind that there should be no changes needed at the OEM level or the channel...changing nodes doesn't always change chip function (i.e. you can only tell the difference from the sku, not from the chip's function).

A node change will ALWAYS result in a new sku.

So first AMD's executives are wrong, and now their own product documentation is wrong.

Wow, you've manageged to surprise me again. Are you sure you're not really Scientia?

I really wish I could help you more here...I've tried English, is there another language you'd prefer?

1. THEY HAVE 3 MONTHS TO PUT A SKU IN PLACE

2. ADDING A SKU IS VERY QUICK AND THEY DON'T NEED TO MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES EXCEPT THAT

3. EVEN PHENOM WHICH IS DUE NEXT MONTH DOESN'T HAVE A SKU YET

(I thought maybe if I shouted it...)

Edit: BTW, I said nothing about AMD execs...I merely pointed out that you are spinning what they said in a way that can't be correct. QED. You're rather narrow interpretation is obviously in error...

If you can't understand the difference between delivering product (which needs the sku) and beginning production (which does not), then I shall just stop (before Keys kicks some butt in here...)

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Becuase their own product documentation say they are 90nm? There is not a 65nm sku for the chips you say exist.

That's right, but there's a 3 month lag between starting production and delivery...which is plenty of time to put a sku in place (possibly during the Phenom launch). Keep in mind that there should be no changes needed at the OEM level or the channel...changing nodes doesn't always change chip function (i.e. you can only tell the difference from the sku, not from the chip's function).

A node change will ALWAYS result in a new sku.

So first AMD's executives are wrong, and now their own product documentation is wrong.

Wow, you've manageged to surprise me again. Are you sure you're not really Scientia?

I really wish I could help you more here...I've tried English, is there another language you'd prefer?

1. THEY HAVE 3 MONTHS TO PUT A SKU IN PLACE

2. ADDING A SKU IS VERY QUICK AND THEY DON'T NEED TO MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES EXCEPT THAT

3. EVEN PHENOM WHICH IS DUE NEXT MONTH DOESN'T HAVE A SKU YET

(I thought maybe if I shouted it...)

I won't shout.

All their high end Athlons are still 90nm.

Got it yet?

Show me a single link - just one - that shows any evidence of a 6400+ ever being produced on 65nm.

Until then, you are wrong.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips

Are not the ATI branded AMD GPU chips made by TSMC?

 

[HopJokey]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips

Are not the ATI branded AMD GPU chips made by TSMC?

Yes.

 

[Keysplayr]

6 months is a looooong time. AMD really do need to pull their feet out of the molasses. They need a kick in the pants, or dangle some carrots in front of the employees, if they have any carrots left. Might need to use the radishes.

Seriously, I want to see AMD kick some serious butt, but man please get a move on. Intel already demo'd (albeit briefly) a four core Nehalem booting up an OS. Penryn is knocking on the door. Phenom NEEDS to be here now, but it can't. SO frustrating (even though this is just all menial hardware talk, so I'm only as frustrated as I could be about something little like this.)

 

[toslat]

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips

Are not the ATI branded AMD GPU chips made by TSMC?

Yes, TSMC makes the AMD GPU (and believe also Nvidia) but I doubt they will be making 90nm CPU's for AMD cos if IIRC back in july TSMC said they would be joining the processor market in 2008 at 45nm. Already the RV670 is at 55nm. Also I thought TSMC low-cost processes were said not to be suited to high end products.

As for possibility of Charter making them................

but overall, if AMD have gotten the hang of the 65nm, and are producing phenom and Barca, wldnt it be cheaper (if they felt it was worth producing) for them to transition the 5600+, 6000+, 6400+ etc to 65nm and produce in house as against outsourcing at 90nm?

I feel they would stop production of the old cores as soon as they have phenom ramped up, otherwise they would just convert them to 65nm.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: toslat

Originally posted by: Phynaz

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: Phynaz
You'll have to ask AMD where the 90nm chips are coming from. Maybe TSMC?

All their performace dual core chips are 90nm.

TSMC doesn't make AMD chips

Are not the ATI branded AMD GPU chips made by TSMC?

Yes, TSMC makes the AMD GPU (and believe also Nvidia) but I doubt they will be making 90nm CPU's for AMD cos if IIRC back in july TSMC said they would be joining the processor market in 2008 at 45nm. Already the RV670 is at 55nm. Also I thought TSMC low-cost processes were said not to be suited to high end products.

As for possibility of Charter making them................

but overall, if AMD have gotten the hang of the 65nm, and are producing phenom and Barca, wldnt it be cheaper (if they felt it was worth producing) for them to transition the 5600+, 6000+, 6400+ etc to 65nm and produce in house as against outsourcing at 90nm?

I feel they would stop production of the old cores as soon as they have phenom ramped up, otherwise they would just convert them to 65nm.

While it may be cheaper, thetre is the possibility that they can't get those speeds with their 65nm proceess - I beleive it's even likely.

Also, the agreement with Chartered has contracted minimums - these could be the upper end 90mn chips.

 

[jones377]

Originally posted by: Viditor
"Sunnyvale (CA) - While refusing to speak about previously announced future products like Bobcat and Bulldozer, AMD's CTO Dirk Meyer did indicate during their Q3 conference call that Fab 36 is manufacturing 45nm processors "right now".

He said they're on track for production ramp in the first half of 2008. AMD's "first offense" for 45nm products will be server and desktop spaces, though Meyer said he would provide additional guidance in December. Basic yields are being attained right now at 45nm using existing materials"

TG Daily article

Didn't anyone else notice that? No metal gates, no high-k materials. At least initially.

 

[bryanW1995]

that would be a waste to go 45nm without changing to the high k metal gates. unless they just need a little die shrink to up their speed. of course, with all the problems they've had getting 65nm to run over 2.7, it doesn't make a lot of sense that they would magically get a much higher number out of 45nm. The high-k materials are an integral part of the 45 nm process, I think that you're just reading too much into that statement.

phynaz, it doens't make sense for amd to continue making 90nm chips when the 65 nm ones are so much cheaper to make. they've gotten up to 2700 mhz already, it seems entirely likely that they'll be able to run 3.0+ very soon at 65 if they're not there already. As others have said, it takes a few months to get from production to your doorstep. Well, maybe not "your" doorstep as you would clearly rather be paying intel $4,000 for an octal coare nehalem C in 3 yrs than have amd at least keep them honest.

Viditor, this whole topic is based upon statements made by amd execs who are continuing to try to stem the bleeding. They did better than most people expected and only posted an operating loss of $224 million. of course, it was closer to $400 million after one time charges/ati merger were factored in. AMD continues to point to the future because their "right now" is getting its ass whupped by big blue. For many years AMD has had a stranglehold on knowledgeable performance enthusiasts but they've now completely lost it. Just like somebody guying an 8600gt because nvidia dominates the "high end", more and more people are now jumping back to intel even for similarly-priced computers because of their newfound dominance. AMD keeps pointing to a moving future target in hopes that it will get wall street off them RIGHT NOW. Unfortunately, nehalem will be here a full year before fusion, so it's about to get much, much worse.

 

[bryanW1995]

phynaz, didn't you just say that the black edition was 90 nm?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103194

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
phynaz, didn't you just say that the black edition was 90 nm?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103194

I believe there is a 6400+ Black Edition - or something simular.