AMD 2500+/2600+ or P4 2.6c

[JonnyStarks]

Hey all,
I'm building a computer for the first time and and I'm looking for a little advice.
I'm going to shcool next fall and want something to use for that, but mainly it will be for gaming.
I've priced out a machine with an AMD 2500+ and a P4c at 2.6GHz.
I am a little new to all of the technical stuff (FSB.. L2 cache) and I've asked 4 different people who have given me 4 different answers as to which way to go ("oh, but the 800FSB isnt truly an 800FSB... and so forth)
Bottom line: I can save about about 150-200 bucks (Canadian) by getting the AMD processor, so I would really like to know if it's worth going to the P4.
Basically right now the one thing I'm wondering is if I would see a big improvement with the P4's 800FSB using dual-channel DDR400 memory.
Everything else I've pretty well decided on goes as follows:
Radeon 9600 AGP8x video card
2x256 DDR RAM
A motherboard with 400(AMD) or 800(P4) FSB with dual-channel support
(is anything else crucial to game preformance?)
all opinions are welcome,
Jonny Starks

 

[MDE]

If you're on a budget, get the AMD. If you do go AMD get one stick of RAM (dual channel doesn't do much for Athlons) and If possible get a better video card with the savings from the processor. I'd recommend just about any motherboard with the nForce2 chipset.

Almost forgot, Welcome to AT!

 

[stingeragent]

Ok. So its a toss up between the 2800+ and 2500+ . I am gonna have to get a new mobo as my current one supports only 266fsb. So I'll probably just get a mb/cpu combo. If I decide to get the 2500 and o/c, what will be the best mobo to get w/out breaking the bank.

 

[MDE]

Originally posted by: stingeragent
Ok. So its a toss up between the 2800+ and 2500+ . I am gonna have to get a new mobo as my current one supports only 266fsb. So I'll probably just get a mb/cpu combo. If I decide to get the 2500 and o/c, what will be the best mobo to get w/out breaking the bank.

You came out of nowhere . If you're on an ultra light budget, there's a Shuttle board at Newegg for some ridiculous price (like $50 or something) that overclocks with the best of them. If you can pony up around $100, the Abit NF7-S is $90 until 9AM Pacific time today (goes up $10 after that).

 

[stingeragent]

LOL. Whoops, I replied in the wrong thread. hehe.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: stingeragent
Ok. So its a toss up between the 2800+ and 2500+ . I am gonna have to get a new mobo as my current one supports only 266fsb. So I'll probably just get a mb/cpu combo. If I decide to get the 2500 and o/c, what will be the best mobo to get w/out breaking the bank.

It's not a toss up at all...GET THE 2500+!

I just got one here in Toronto at a store called Filtech Computers (best computer store in the city IMO) and it runs nicely at 2.31ghz (3400+ speed) with a moderate voltage increase.

I always reccomend Athlons to students as they save money and they do the things that students need to do really well (office apps, gaming, CAD, internet). Make sure you get a board with an Nforce2 chipset as others have mentionned. A great board for someone on a budget is the Asus A7N8X-X. It's basically a single-channel Nforce2 board with great performance. You don't really need dual-channel with the Athlon XP. It only provides a ~5% performance boost.

 

[stingeragent]

Well since I'm getting replies anyways. I gots like a couple more questions. First off, which 2500+ are we talking about? The one with barton core or thoroughbred core that is good for o/c? Secondly, how much cooling am I gonna need to o/c to 3200+ speeds?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: stingeragent
Well since I'm getting replies anyways. I gots like a couple more questions. First off, which 2500+ are we talking about? The one with barton core or thoroughbred core that is good for o/c? Secondly, how much cooling am I gonna need to o/c to 3200+ speeds?

AFAIK all 2500+ chips are Bartons.

You should be able to hit 3200+ speeds with the stock cooler that comes bundled with the chip, possibly at stock voltage (I needed 1.7v for 100% stability). Get the Barton. If you want a tbred-b, get an 1800+.

My 2500+ was $127CDN (retail package, came with HSF and 3 year warranty). They had 1800+ chips for $80, and rumor has it they are God's gift to overclocking.

 

[stingeragent]

lol, well seeing as how i already have an 1800+, I don't really want another one.

Ok, so I'm about set on the 2500+. Would this mobo be ok? Biostar Motherboard for AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/ Duron Processor, Model# M7NCD

Btw..I'm planning on getting all this from new egg, so if anyone thinks I should get it someplace else for some reason, let me know. Thanks.

 

[JonnyStarks]

Wow, that just about settles things.
Now at first, I wasn't interested in overclocking at all, but now you all have me very intrigued. My first and only attempt to overclock was when I tried to get my 486DX from 66MHz to 80MHz. It involved switching jumpers that I think I found and changing the BIOS setup... and then doing it again faster...
I failed miserably in this attempt, and that was what kind of turned me off. You're all making it sound pretty easy. Is there much to it now? Maybe somebody has a link to a good guide?

 

[stingeragent]

Actually it is fairly simple now provided you have ample cooling (btw I'm no expert). Your motherboard is key in o/c because most of the time its done in the BIOS.

 

[CarpeDiem99]

stinger, the 1800 u have is probably a palomino and ur motherboard wont allow for overclocking
get a nf2 motherboard like mine abit nf7-s and a 1800 tbred b dlt3c which will allow for good overclocking
my jixib can go all the way to 2.61 ghz but 1.9V with good cooling of course

 

[CraigRT]

yeah don't get a biostar mainboard if you want to OC

get Abit, Soltek, Asus, Albatron

something along those lines

 

[stingeragent]

Out of curiousity, why don't you like the biostar for o/c? It provides all the options, voltages, memory timings, fsb adjustment, multiplier adjustment (if the cpu is unlocked).
I just re-read a mssg, and that biostar I want does have an nf2 chipset.
Ok, so I'll cave and get the asus or abit. Nf7s or the A7N8X-X. But which one should I get. I know they both can o/c good but 1 doesn't let u increase voltage past 1.75.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: stingeragent
Out of curiousity, why don't you like the biostar for o/c? It provides all the options, voltages, memory timings, fsb adjustment, multiplier adjustment (if the cpu is unlocked).
I just re-read a mssg, and that biostar I want does have an nf2 chipset.
Ok, so I'll cave and get the asus or abit. Nf7s or the A7N8X-X. But which one should I get. I know they both can o/c good but 1 doesn't let u increase voltage past 1.75.

Both let you increase voltage to 1.85v. The A7N8X-X doesn't allow you to modify the chipset voltage, which is only important if you're going for an insanely high FSB overclock. Both are great manufacturers...just take your pick. As someone who's used both ASUS and ABIT boards, I prefer ASUS.

 

[RussianSensation]

If you are gonna buy a computer for gaming for next fall when you go to school, thats when you should consider buying it not now.

 

[JonnyStarks]

Yeah that was the plan Sensation... I'm really looking to get the best preformance for as little as possible, and I'll either get the same stuff for cheaper, or better stuff at the same price (right now I figure I'll be in at about $1000 CDN)


But it looks like theres still a lot to learn about overclocking so I'll take that time to learn.

 

[stingeragent]

I got another question. Some guy in a different thread said the new bartons have their multiplier locked and so you have to increase fsb to o/c. Well I'm wondering, will it run stable with a higher fsb at around 3200+ speeds? Also, does anyone know if the bartons from newegg are locked? thanks.

 

[JimRaynor]

Most likely, the barton you receive from newegg is going to be locked. The stability of your machine will depend on whether your motherboard and ram can handle a 200mhz fsb (assuming you want to run your mem synched with fsb). You could always run async but then you take a performance hit.

 

[RussianSensation]

stingeragent I know what you mean but it depends on you if you are willing to wait until next fall and buy then and from now until then not take advantage of the fast cpu (if you really need it though for games/applications? etc.)

I live in Canada myself and bought my computer on June 17th, 2003

P4 2.6cpu "C" for @229 retail
Abit IS7 motherboard @105
2x256 Geil PC3500 ultra platinum @63 each = 126
Aspire Turbo Case + 350 Watt power supply @69
54x24x54 liteon cd-writer @40
liteon dvd rom @40
80gb western digital 8mb HDD @83
Floppy @12

So that cost me with shipping around $750US at the time and exchange rate was 1.35 so about 1020 Cdn

I've ran my p4 at 3055 mhz from day one and i never turn my computer off i have seti i play games no problems.
Before had an amd and i'll tell you p4 is more stable and is faster in all applications (no doubt 3.0ghz p4 with HT > 3200+ amd even)

but now prices have dropped even more.....so i had my old radeon 8500 from my old computer....but you'll probably be able to get all this cheaper and squeeze in a better card in there too

so imagine if you wait till the fall when doom 3 and half-life 2 come out and call of duty and need for speed underground and max payne drop in prices (unless you burn games and wanna play them now) then you'll get a computer that much better

If i you were gonna go p4 route get the Abit AI7 it has Prescott compatibility and mofsets are cooled on it which aids in overclocking

i'd probably not go AMD route at all since once you overclock p4 amd is left in the dust just check 3dmark2001/pcmark 2001/pcmark 2004 or any gaming benchmarks, encoding, or multithreaded applications

 

[stingeragent]

I'm not very knowledgeable about P4's so whats that "c" stand for? Is that your core. And also, are you o/c w/ multiplier or fsb? Thanks.
Also, since I'm heading to fry's today, if I see a 2500 unlocked I'm gonna go ahead and buy it.

 

[lxie123]

I would not get the barton 2500+ at this time.

1) its locked ( that's a disadvantage compared to those guys who bought the exact processor for similar price and got an unlocked chip).

2)according to most reviews i read.. even the 2.6c does better than 3200+ bartons, so you dont' even need to oc.

anand
hdzone
Sharky

These are all reputable sources.
Most show 2.6c > 3200 in overall performance.
Then if you oc a 2.6c you're going to kill the 3200+ barton.


The only amd processor I'd recomemd at this time is athlon 64.. but only if you are building high end.

 

[SpeedFreak03]

Originally posted by: stingeragent
I'm not very knowledgeable about P4's so whats that "c" stand for? Is that your core. And also, are you o/c w/ multiplier or fsb? Thanks.
Also, since I'm heading to fry's today, if I see a 2500 unlocked I'm gonna go ahead and buy it.

I think the C is the revision. "A" was 400FSB and no HyperThreading. "B" was 533FSB and no HyperThreading. "C" is 800FSB and HyperThreading. If I'm not right then someone correct me lol, but I'm pretty sure about this. Since P4's have always been multiplier locked, you overclock with FSB. Most people hit 3.25GHz (1000FSB) with their 2.6C's, with the help of extra cooling.

 

[stingeragent]

AHHH, all these new opinions. I'm at a loss of what to do now.

Instead of buying a new cpu right now, would I be better off getting say a GF Fx5900 nu?
I currently have an athlon xp 1800+ , gf3 ti 200. I just don't know what to do.

 

[Boyne7]

p4a = 400mhz fsb
p4b = 533mhz fsb
p4c = 800mhz fsb w/ hyperthreading

almost every C can overclock to 3ghz on stock voltage with the retail hs/f

the only way to overclock p4s are by fsb

if you get a p4 they benefit greatly from a dual channel ram configuration

as stated above a 2.6C will perform better than a 3200+ at stock speed
and at 3ghz it will absolutely trounce a 3200+

no i am not an intel fanboy, i have 2 amds myself just between a 2500+ and a 2.6C there is no comparison which will perform better.