AMD 10.12 vs 11.1 vs 11.1a tested ... interesting read

[Copenhagen69]

I am still curious why you think the extra two spots on the 8pin are just for ground. that just does not make sense to me power wise.

 

[Skurge]

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html#pciexpress

 

[MrK6]

So the 6970 has an 8 pin connector just for looks?

Anyone can see that the 6970 requires more power than a 6950 and a bios hack won't fix that.

You didn't answer the question. You specifically stated:

A lot of people on various forums have been complaining about artifacting when trying to overclock an unlocked 6950. Probably because a true 6970 has an 8 pin + 6 pin power connector while the 6950 only has 2 6 pin connectors. Buyer beware.

Now either back it up with an engineering proof or stop spreading FUD.

 

[Wreckage]

You didn't answer the question. You specifically stated:

Now either back it up with an engineering proof or stop spreading FUD.

My proof is that AMD put an 8 pin connector on the 6970 and a 6 pin on the 6950.

6970 also uses more power than a 6950 (even more than a 570)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd6970-hd6950_13.html#sect0

Facts is facts.

People have damaged their 6950's
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2163453#post2163453

 

[Wreckage]

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html#pciexpress

Did you actually read the link where it backs up exactly what I said?

The older 6 pin version officially provides a maximum of 75 watts (although unofficially it can usually provide much more) whereas the new 8 pin version provides a maximum of 150 watts.

Thank you Skurge for proving my point.

 

[apoppin]

You didn't answer the question. You specifically stated:

Now either back it up with an engineering proof or stop spreading FUD.

It is actually painful to read some of the comments here. Clearly the 8-pin is designed to carry more voltage to the card than the 6-pin.


Try educating yourself with the basics before spreading nonsense; even Yahoo has it right:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100413200304AA2IDkw

The maximum current used by the card can be estimated as follows: Assuming you are using a PCI-Express slot, the most it is allowed to supply to the graphics card (or any PCI-Express x16 device) is 75W. If you have a graphics card that doesn't have an auxiliary power connection (on the back of the card) that connects using a 6-pin or 8-pin PCI-E power connector, the card must use less than 75W in the worst case.

If the graphics card has a 6-pin PCI-E connector as well, that allows the card to use another 75W (directly from the PSU through the 6-pin PCI-E connector) for a total of 150W in the worst case. Just having a 6-pin auxiliary connector doesn't mean the card will use 150W. It just means that it very likely uses more than 75W or the manufacturer would not have gone through the additional expense of adding a 6-pin PCI-E power connector to the card. The card uses between 75W and 150W when under a full load (such as when playing a demanding game).

If the graphics card has an 8-pin PCI connector, that allows for an additional 150W for a total of 225W (with 75W coming from the PCI-E slot on the motherboard as before). Again, just having an 8-pin auxiliary connector doesn't mean the card will use 225W. It just means that it very likely uses more than 150W (when under a load) or the manufacturer would have used a 6-pin PCI-E power connector.

 

[Copenhagen69]

It is actually painful to read some of the comments here. Clearly the 8-pin is designed to carry more voltage to the card than the 6-pin.


Try educating yourself with the basics before spreading nonsense; even Yahoo has it right:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100413200304AA2IDkw

good link :thumbsup:

 

[bargetrav]

Did you actually read the link where it backs up exactly what I said?

The older 6 pin version officially provides a maximum of 75 watts (although unofficially it can usually provide much more) whereas the new 8 pin version provides a maximum of 150 watts.

Thank you Skurge for proving my point.

They actually can provide the same power, they are just "rated" differently. Ground wires cannot possibly provide more power, those wires carry no current.

 

[bargetrav]

My proof is that AMD put an 8 pin connector on the 6970 and a 6 pin on the 6950.

6970 also uses more power than a 6950 (even more than a 570)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd6970-hd6950_13.html#sect0

Facts is facts.

People have damaged their 6950's
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2163453#post2163453

Actually, almost all of those people turned out to have the artifacts EVERY 6900 SERIES CARD HAD.

If you read their forums, you forgot to mention the separate thread of people with regular 6950/6970's that mentioned very minor artifacting with their cards in BF2 and a few other games, and the artifacts were more like rendering issues, as in driver related.


You would know very quickly after flashing/Overclocking when the card is failing, it wouldn't be some minor issues in a game. You'd see constant BSOD's, heavy tearing, etc.


Flashing this card is no more dangerous than Overclocking your CPU, your system memory, etc. You always have a low risk of completely killing your component, but it's tiny, and if you notice not one of these people has a truly dead card from flashing.

 

[MrK6]

My proof is that AMD put an 8 pin connector on the 6970 and a 6 pin on the 6950.

6970 also uses more power than a 6950 (even more than a 570)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd6970-hd6950_13.html#sect0

Facts is facts.

People have damaged their 6950's
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2163453#post2163453

Kind of like the fact that people who haven't a clue about the technical details of what they're discussing should probably just stay out of said discussions. You still haven't answered my question:

Would you like to explain how adding two extra ground wires allows the connector to magically supply another 75W of power?

Furthermore, would you like to point out where in that link it proves that 6950's were killed because they lacked an 8-pin power connectors, or are you falsifying sources? That is, since you (rather baselessly and through faulty logic) are attributing that as the cause.

It is actually painful to read some of the comments here. Clearly the 8-pin is designed to carry more voltage to the card than the 6-pin.


Try educating yourself with the basics before spreading nonsense; even Yahoo has it right:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100413200304AA2IDkw

Congratulations, you found a Yahoo Answers link that spells out the PCIe specs, how does that aid this discussion? Since you seem to think yourself so informed on this subject, how about you answer the original question since Wreckage seems to be dodging it:

Would you like to explain how adding two extra ground wires allows the connector to magically supply another 75W of power?

People who think themselves "experts" because they can Google an answer look just as ridiculous as the posters and nonsense they are trying to support. Either come up with an actual answer to aid the discussion or get out of the thread.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Amazing this stupid thread is still going...

 

[Wreckage]

People who think themselves "experts" because they can Google an answer look just as ridiculous as the posters and nonsense they are trying to support. Either come up with an actual answer to aid the discussion or get out of the thread.

You should take your own advice.

 

[MrK6]

You should take your own advice.

Stop with the personal attacks. Answer the question or leave the thread.

 

[apoppin]

Kind of like the fact that people who haven't a clue about the technical details of what they're discussing should probably just stay out of said discussions. You still haven't answered my question:

Furthermore, would you like to point out where in that link it proves that 6950's were killed because they lacked an 8-pin power connectors, or are you falsifying sources? That is, since you (rather baselessly and through faulty logic) are attributing that as the cause.

Congratulations, you found a Yahoo Answers link that spells out the PCIe specs, how does that aid this discussion? Since you seem to think yourself so informed on this subject, how about you answer the original question since Wreckage seems to be dodging it:


People who think themselves "experts" because they can Google an answer look just as ridiculous as the posters and nonsense they are trying to support. Either come up with an actual answer to aid the discussion or get out of the thread.

You should take your own advice. Clearly that Yahoo expert understands it and explained it very well. You are clearly arguing for the sake of arguing and are not adding anything useful to the discussion.

Everything we have shown you proves that the two extra ground wires are there to carry more current to the card stably - or they would NOT have engineered it so. Read this:

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

The PCI Express 2.0 specification released in January 2007 added an 8 pin PCI Express power cable. It's just an 8 pin version of the 6 Pin PCI Express power cable. Both are primarily used to provide supplemental power to video cards. The older 6 pin version officially provides a maximum of 75 watts (although unofficially it can usually provide much more) whereas the new 8 pin version provides a maximum of 150 watts.

Fact: The HD 6950 is not engineered to run at the higher spec of the HD 6970. That mine does does not prove that all of them will.

Now let's see some proof from you - besides telling us to "prove it"
google *something* that supports what you are saying.

 

[MrK6]

You should take your own advice. Clearly that Yahoo expert understands it and explained it very well. You are clearly arguing for the sake of arguing and are not adding anything useful to the discussion.

Everything we have shown you proves that the two extra ground wires are there to carry more current to the card stably - or they would NOT have engineered it so. Read this:

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html


Fact: The HD 6950 is not engineered to run at the higher spec of the HD 6970. That mine does does not prove that all of them will.

Now let's see some proof from you - besides telling us to "prove it"
google *something* that supports what you are saying.

Because both of you are spreading FUD and dodging questions when you're called out on it. Repeating the PCIe 2.0 specs ad nauseum does not somehow make you correct. If you don't understand the topic at hand, just say so, no one's going to beat you over the head for it and you'd stop wasting forum space. The 8-pin connector, which only adds two ground wires, doesn't somehow magically enable the same 12V lines to somehow safely carry more power - the truth is they already can. This is Electrical Engineering 101. That's why most 6-pin-to-8-pin connectors simply loop-connect the grounds on the 8-pin side and it's also why most PSU's have 6-pin and 8-pin power connectors wired the same.

The 6950 is not engineered to run at the higher specs of the 6970, but it isn't due to it lacking an 8-pin power connector. If people are killing their 6950's from trying to flash them to a 6970, it's probably because there are other differences on the board itself. As was mentioned in other threads, the 6970's run at higher voltages on the core and the vRAM, and overvolting GDDR5 is a great way to kill it quickly.

 

[apoppin]

i see a lot of words, MrK6 .. but nothing to support your PoV

What IS your PoV on it? That the "extra" two pins are an evolutionary appendage that were uselessly added by paranoid engineers that have no use in the HD 6970?



i want to see some support for this statement of yours:

The 6950 is not engineered to run at the higher specs of the 6970, but it isn't due to it lacking an 8-pin power connector.

you prove it

Quote some experts .. or perhaps you should head back to electrical engineering 101 to see what ground wires are used for

 

[MrK6]

i see a lot of words, MrK6 .. but nothing to support your PoV

What IS your PoV on it? That the "extra" two pins are an evolutionary appendage that were uselessly added by paranoid engineers that have no use in the HD 6970?
-- maybe you should head back to electrical engineering 101 to see what ground wires are used for


i want to see some support for this statement of yours:

you prove it

Quote some experts

So rather than provide a technical response or any personal insight, you resort to a personal attack. It seems I was correct in my general assessment - this conversation is above your knowledge and comprehension. Leave the thread and go lick your wounds elsewhere, you're wasting my time and the forum's space.

 

[apoppin]

What personal attack? i am reusing your OWN words and ridicule that you are dishing out to us and others

i AM asking you to *prove* that the "extra" 2 pins are useless and completely unnecessary to the HD 6970's stable operation

The 6950 is not engineered to run at the higher specs of the 6970, but it isn't due to it lacking an 8-pin power connector.

Come on... we're all waiting for you to link to something besides your personal opinion.

 

[bargetrav]

i see a lot of words, MrK6 .. but nothing to support your PoV

What IS your PoV on it? That the "extra" two pins are an evolutionary appendage that were uselessly added by paranoid engineers that have no use in the HD 6970?



i want to see some support for this statement of yours:
you prove it

Quote some experts .. or perhaps you should head back to electrical engineering 101 to see what ground wires are used for

dude, you're retarded, you're just getting completely owned left and right. Of course Ground wires have a purpose, but they have NOTHING to do with the supply of power to the cards.

 

[apoppin]

dude, you're retarded, you're just getting completely owned left and right. Of course Ground wires have a purpose, but they have NOTHING to do with the supply of power to the cards.

Since you seem to understand it so well, please explain to the edification of the forum what the two extra pins are used for in the 8-pin PCIe connector and what purpose they serve over the 6-pin connector.
:thumbsup:

 

[MrK6]

What personal attack? i am reusing your OWN words and ridicule that you are dishing out to us and others

i AM asking you to *prove* that the "extra" 2 pins are useless and completely unnecessary to the HD 6970's stable operation

Come on... we're all waiting for you to link to something besides your personal opinion.

I kind of figured since I didn't quote an "expert" (read: someone else on the internet with half a semester of electrical engineering and an ounce of commonsense) you would take that as some kind of "victory" or "stalemate." Here's a link that specifies more about PCIe connectors and their capabilities: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274631-28-power-spec-power-plug . Now quit dragging yourself through the mud just to waste my time.

dude, you're retarded, you're just getting completely owned left and right. Of course Ground wires have a purpose, but they have NOTHING to do with the supply of power to the cards.

Thank you; unfortunately some people just don't get when to leave.

 

[evolucion8]

My proof is that AMD put an 8 pin connector on the 6970 and a 6 pin on the 6950.

6970 also uses more power than a 6950 (even more than a 570)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd6970-hd6950_13.html#sect0

More lies, the GTX 570 consumes more power than the HD 6970.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-6950-6970-review/11

I proved you wrong with the same regard on another thread and yet you keep seeing the same blatant lie on another,

 

[Wreckage]

More lies, the GTX 570 consumes more power than the HD 6970.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/20126/15

When running Left 4 Dead 2, however, the 6970 actually pulls a little more juice than the GTX 570.

Both Xbit and Techreport tested power in actual games. Instead of using Furmark which AMD actually downclocks (slows) in. Also Xbit measures actual card power instead of "system" power (which can have all sorts of other variables).

 

[evolucion8]

http://techreport.com/articles.x/20126/15

When running Left 4 Dead 2, however, the 6970 actually pulls a little more juice than the GTX 570.

Both Xbit and Techreport tested power in actual games. Instead of using Furmark which AMD actually downclocks (slows) in. Also Xbit measures actual card power instead of "system" power (which can have all sorts of other variables).

You just cherry picked one benchmark link, I posted more than 3 reviews from different sites. Left 4 Dead isn't taxing enough to max a GPU load. And if you bothered to read, there's results from Crysis, a far more taxing game than Left 4 Dead which is based on the Source Engine which is over 6 years old, and don't forget that nVidia employs similar techniques of Power Throttling which you can't control unlike with AMD which can be tuned. Thank you.

 

[apoppin]

I kind of figured since I didn't quote an "expert" (read: someone else on the internet with half a semester of electrical engineering and an ounce of commonsense) you would take that as some kind of "victory" or "stalemate." Here's a link that specifies more about PCIe connectors and their capabilities: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274631-28-power-spec-power-plug . Now quit dragging yourself through the mud just to waste my time.
Thank you; unfortunately some people just don't get when to leave.

You really don't get it - at all. According to your posts, you would really have us believe that the 2 extra pins are "useless"
... and now you are quoting forum posters on another forum.


However, they actually got it right even though you didn't:

The reason two additional ground wires instead of a ground and a lead were added in the PCI-e version 2.0 specifications is that resistance is reduced with an additional ground more than it is with an additional hot lead.