Ambien or Lunesta

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: slatr
If IQ had anything to do with problems sleeping, half of anandtech would have died of sleep deprivation, and a few people probably would have never made it past embryonic stages. Fortunately it has little to do with sleep problems.
**********
It has a lot to do with sleep problems for some people.

Unforunately, most of them also have the mindset that sleep is a waste of time.

Evidence please? This is completely illogical. Those who exercise their brain the hardest need sleep the most. Anyone who has spent 8 hours playing chess or working on a complex computer programming task can attest to this. Same for people who work out the most. That is the way the body works. It's true that if you are doing something monotonous for long periods of time, it can be difficult to go to sleep immediately because you close your eyes and see the stuff you've been doing for 8 hours. Kind of like LCD burning of the brain. This can occasionally include intelligent activities like chess and theorethical physics. But I don't think that intelligence has any direct impact on sleep disorders, and I would like to see some evidence that this is true.

Sounds like an egostistical assumption to me. "I'm so intelligent that I can't sleep." Makes no more sense than saying "I'm so intelligent that I can't pee"

Torpid, you're sitting here making these bold blanket statements when you have someone - me - who is evidence to the absolute contrary. I work my brain out for 9 hours straight and then go home and beat the crap out of my body physically. Yet, I still cannot sleep. So enough with the "anyone who does this and that will surely be able to sleep".

Not so, Haus.

And no one was saying that "intelligent people can't sleep". I was told by my SLEEP DOCTOR that it can be a factor as it can exacerbate an overly active mind, so if you want to argue with him, that's fine. I'll post his info if you want it.

I didn't post it to brag (you're the only one making a big deal out of it)... I just want to get some damn sleep, so I posted all the pertinent info I could think of.

 

[JS80]

Scotch.

 

[Krazefinn]

Do you snore when you do sleep? Are you sleepy or sleeping during the day?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Krazefinn
Do you snore when you do sleep? Are you sleepy or sleeping during the day?

No, yes, and no. I make DAMN sure I don't sleep during the day . I've powered through some of the most brutal "sleep attacks" that you can imagine.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: torpid

Evidence please? This is completely illogical. Those who exercise their brain the hardest need sleep the most. Anyone who has spent 8 hours playing chess or working on a complex computer programming task can attest to this. Same for people who work out the most. That is the way the body works. It's true that if you are doing something monotonous for long periods of time, it can be difficult to go to sleep immediately because you close your eyes and see the stuff you've been doing for 8 hours. Kind of like LCD burning of the brain. This can occasionally include intelligent activities like chess and theorethical physics. But I don't think that intelligence has any direct impact on sleep disorders, and I would like to see some evidence that this is true.

Sounds like an egostistical assumption to me. "I'm so intelligent that I can't sleep." Makes no more sense than saying "I'm so intelligent that I can't pee"

Torpid, you're sitting here making this bold blanket statements when you have someone - me - who is evidence to the absolute contrary. I work my brain out for 9 hours straight and then go home and beat the crap out of my body physically. Yet, I still cannot sleep. So enough with the "anyone who does this and that will surely be able to sleep".

Not so, Haus.

And no one was saying that "intelligent people can't sleep". I was told by my SLEEP DOCTOR that it can be a factor as it can exacerbate an overly active mind, so if you want to argue with him, that's fine. I'll post his info if you want it.

I didn't post it to brag (you're the only one making a big deal out of it)... I just want to get some damn sleep, so I posted all the pertinent info I could think of.

Well that lack of sleep must really be lowering your brain power because I have said nothing along the lines of what you are implying I have said. I am arguing that intelligence has little to do with sleep disorders because if it had a lot to do with sleep disorders then it would be a major epidemic among groups of high intelligence. I argued that people who work out their mind SHOULD be able to sleep, which is in agreement with the fact that you find your condition unusual.

I agree that an overactive mind could be exacerbated by high intelligence. But that does not mean that high intelligence implies an overactive mind or any sleep disorder.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: torpid

Evidence please? This is completely illogical. Those who exercise their brain the hardest need sleep the most. Anyone who has spent 8 hours playing chess or working on a complex computer programming task can attest to this. Same for people who work out the most. That is the way the body works. It's true that if you are doing something monotonous for long periods of time, it can be difficult to go to sleep immediately because you close your eyes and see the stuff you've been doing for 8 hours. Kind of like LCD burning of the brain. This can occasionally include intelligent activities like chess and theorethical physics. But I don't think that intelligence has any direct impact on sleep disorders, and I would like to see some evidence that this is true.

Sounds like an egostistical assumption to me. "I'm so intelligent that I can't sleep." Makes no more sense than saying "I'm so intelligent that I can't pee"

Torpid, you're sitting here making this bold blanket statements when you have someone - me - who is evidence to the absolute contrary. I work my brain out for 9 hours straight and then go home and beat the crap out of my body physically. Yet, I still cannot sleep. So enough with the "anyone who does this and that will surely be able to sleep".

Not so, Haus.

And no one was saying that "intelligent people can't sleep". I was told by my SLEEP DOCTOR that it can be a factor as it can exacerbate an overly active mind, so if you want to argue with him, that's fine. I'll post his info if you want it.

I didn't post it to brag (you're the only one making a big deal out of it)... I just want to get some damn sleep, so I posted all the pertinent info I could think of.

Well that lack of sleep must really be lowering your brain power because I have said nothing along the lines of what you are implying I have said. I am arguing that intelligence has little to do with sleep disorders because if it had a lot to do with sleep disorders then it would be a major epidemic among groups of high intelligence. I argued that people who work out their mind SHOULD be able to sleep, which is in agreement with the fact that you find your condition unusual.

I agree that an overactive mind could be exacerbated by high intelligence. But that does not mean that high intelligence implies an overactive mind or any sleep disorder.

Quote where someone has said that high intelligence implies an overactive mind and/or a sleep disorder? All that's been said here is that it's possible that it could contribute to it.

You're taking this the wrong way.

 

[torpid]

Check slatr's post above.

 

[aphex]

I used to have Sleep Apnea. Had the tonsils removed and it cleared it right up. Now i have the opposite problem, if i don't set my alarm, i can and WILL sleep for 10-12 hours.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: torpid
Check slatr's post above.

It has a lot to do with sleep problems for some people.

Unforunately, most of them also have the mindset that sleep is a waste of time.

?

He simply stated what I just said: it can be a contributing factor for some people. What's the problem? For others it might be work-related problems that contribute to an overly active mind. That doesn't mean I'm implying that everyone with work-related problems can't sleep. You can have a mind that doesn't "want" sleep for any number of reasons; we just happened to be discussing this particular one at the moment. Once again, it's something my sleep doctor had mentioned. The idea wasn't concocted out of thin air.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: aphex
I used to have Sleep Apnea. Had the tonsils removed and it cleared it right up. Now i have the opposite problem, if i don't set my alarm, i can and WILL sleep for 10-12 hours.

When I can get to sleep, I usually do okay. I won't sleep for more than 7 or 8 hours, but the real trick for me is just falling asleep.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: aphex
I used to have Sleep Apnea. Had the tonsils removed and it cleared it right up. Now i have the opposite problem, if i don't set my alarm, i can and WILL sleep for 10-12 hours.

I have and had the same exact problem. Although if I don't set my alarm, my cats will eventually wake me up one way or another.

I just read up on narcolepsy and I don't think that is the issue. That has some seriously debilitating physical side effects. Are you hallucinating or experience loss in muscle tone? If not I would get a second opinion.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
?

He simply stated what I just said: it can be a contributing factor for some people. What's the problem? For others it might be work-related problems that contribute to an overly active mind. That doesn't mean I'm implying that everyone with work-related problems can't sleep. You can have a mind that doesn't "want" sleep for any number of reasons; we just happened to be discussing this particular one at the moment. Once again, it's something my sleep doctor had mentioned. The idea wasn't concocted out of thin air.

He said it "has a lot to do with sleep problems" which is directly opposite to me saying that it has "little to do" with sleep problems.

Do you honestly believe that it is the major factor for you considering you listed two other disorders? According to your wording, the doctor said it could exacerbate the problem, meaning make an already existing problem worse. Kind of like how a painful cut can be made worse by pouring salt on the wound. But pouring salt on regular skin does not have that effect.

Have you gone to a different doctor or your main doctor?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: torpid
He said it "has a lot to do with sleep problems" which is directly opposite to me saying that it has "little to do" with sleep problems.

No, he said "it has a lot to do with sleep problems for some people".

Originally posted by: torpid
Do you honestly believe that it is the major factor for you considering you listed two other disorders?

Nope. And with all respect, the IQ thing wasn't a major component of the discussion at all until you made it one. In fact, I deliberately ignored your first comments (made long before slatr had even said a word) because I realized that you immediately focused on that one element rather than looking at the whole picture. It ruffled your feathers for whatever reason, so it was discounted.

Originally posted by: torpid
According to your wording, the doctor said it could exacerbate the problem, meaning make an already existing problem worse. Kind of like how a painful cut can be made worse by pouring salt on the wound. But pouring salt on regular skin does not have that effect.

So........... ?

I really don't know what your problem with all this is. Seems to me like your just looking for an argument.

Call this guy:
Dr. Helmut Schmidt
614-766-0773

Seeing as how he's a very well-respected pioneer in sleep medicine, he'd be a good one to start with if you're going to "debunk the myths".

 

[torpid]

It didn't ruffle my feathers, I just found it funny. The main point of my post was that your sleep disorder is caused by other things and that you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. Your sleep MD said you had narcolepsy and you mocked the diagnosis even though narcolepsy is a very serious disorder. Now you want me to call him and take anything he says seriously.

You want advice on a medicine but don't really trust doctors to dispense useful medical advice when it comes to drugs. But you are hoping for some good advice from anandtech off-topic on ambien and your sleep disorder. As you can see from this thread people can't even agree whether percocet causes drowsiness.

I'm not sure what you are looking for from ATOT, but I can tell you that any medication that helps induce sleep is generally not recommended long term.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: aphex
I used to have Sleep Apnea. Had the tonsils removed and it cleared it right up. Now i have the opposite problem, if i don't set my alarm, i can and WILL sleep for 10-12 hours.

When I can get to sleep, I usually do okay. I won't sleep for more than 7 or 8 hours, but the real trick for me is just falling asleep.

Melatonin usually does the trick for me, sorry it dosent work for you

Man, i took that stuff last night, within 20 minutes, i was so damn groggy i almost fell over while pissing before i went to bed.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: torpid
The main point of my post was that your sleep disorder is caused by other things and that you seem to be barking up the wrong tree.

How could you possibly know? The thread title is "Ambien or Lunesta". Not "Diagnose My Sleep Disorder". My docs have offered a number of drugs and, before I go popping pills, I just wanted to know what others experiences were; hence, an ATOT post was born.

Originally posted by: torpid
Your sleep MD said you had narcolepsy and you mocked the diagnosis even though narcolepsy is a very serious disorder. Now you want me to call him and take anything he says seriously.

Lets be serious. He's the doctor who made that particular diagnosis. He was stuck on the fact that I get tired during the day. Regardless of whether or not that specific diagnosis was correct has no bearing on the fact that the idea that intelligence can (NOT ALWAYS) play a role in insomnia is held by the field. It's part of the overall notion that *anything* that keeps your mind in gear will prevent you from getting a good night's sleep. It can be a mind craving constant stimulation, a mind obsessed with a failing marriage, or financial problems. A doctor will inquire as to which of those many factors it could be in the event that it's a treatable/manageable situation.

Originally posted by: torpid
You want advice on a medicine but don't really trust doctors to dispense useful medical advice when it comes to drugs. But you are hoping for some good advice from anandtech off-topic on ambien and your sleep disorder. As you can see from this thread people can't even agree whether percocet causes drowsiness.

Again, all I wanted to know was what people's experiences were with these two drugs. I did not come here for a diagnosis. I did not ask for a diagnosis:

So honestly I'm just looking to hear from people who have either taken Ambien and/or Lunesta

I came here looking for people who had taken one or both drugs... yet many chose to chime in, including yourself. I'm not saying I don't appreciate all of the input (I do, in fact), but please don't presume that I came here looking for medical advice. In the course of discussion, people asked questions so I gave more information about the situation. It was to help them understand where I was coming from, NOT to help them form a professional medical opinion.

Originally posted by: torpid
I'm not sure what you are looking for from ATOT, but I can tell you that any medication that helps induce sleep is generally not recommended long term.

Lunesta is approved for long-term use. Ambien is not unless directed by a doctor. Truth be told I'm not crazy about taking ANYTHING. I think it's worth noting that I've dealt with this for ten years before even considering medication. Without going into my whole medical history and psych evaluation, trust me when I say this was an absolute last resort.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: aphex
I used to have Sleep Apnea. Had the tonsils removed and it cleared it right up. Now i have the opposite problem, if i don't set my alarm, i can and WILL sleep for 10-12 hours.

When I can get to sleep, I usually do okay. I won't sleep for more than 7 or 8 hours, but the real trick for me is just falling asleep.

Melatonin usually does the trick for me, sorry it dosent work for you

Man, i took that stuff last night, within 20 minutes, i was so damn groggy i almost fell over while pissing before i went to bed.

Falling asleep while hunched over the toilet mid-piss would be a welcome event!

 

[Soccerman06]

Im not sure if this will help, but I am a night-owl and I need a lot of sleep. It definitly helps playing soccer (look at my name), or in general, excersizing. I know it sounds weird, but I cant fall asleep before 1am no matter what time I try to fall asleep and how long I stay up. There are those special days I sleep in a little too much and cannot sleep until 5am that night. Its weird though, I can drink/eat right before bed and fall asleep right away.

I find it helps to fall asleep having certain days where I only get 5-6 hours of sleep, that helps a lot when I want to sleep at 2am. Seriously, what do you think nightquil is made out of, water? It has a few things to get rid of your headache/cold but its main ingrediant is alcohol, so when you say you dont drink but do take nightquil, you are drinking about 1/10 a shot. If its the taste of alcohol that you dont like, try 99 barries, it actually doesnt taste half bad. If your under-age, your out of luck.

Seriously try getting bombed one night, and for you it would probably only take a few drinks, drinking is the very best way become tired (depressant) aside from perscription drugs.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: aphex
I used to have Sleep Apnea. Had the tonsils removed and it cleared it right up. Now i have the opposite problem, if i don't set my alarm, i can and WILL sleep for 10-12 hours.

When I can get to sleep, I usually do okay. I won't sleep for more than 7 or 8 hours, but the real trick for me is just falling asleep.

Melatonin usually does the trick for me, sorry it dosent work for you

Man, i took that stuff last night, within 20 minutes, i was so damn groggy i almost fell over while pissing before i went to bed.

Falling asleep while hunched over the toilet mid-piss would be a welcome event!

Unfortunately, hearing my fiancee yelling at me at 7am about having to step in my piss isn't

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Soccerman06
Im not sure if this will help, but I am a night-owl and I need a lot of sleep. It definitly helps playing soccer (look at my name), or in general, excersizing. I know it sounds weird, but I cant fall asleep before 1am no matter what time I try to fall asleep and how long I stay up. There are those special days I sleep in a little too much and cannot sleep until 5am that night. Its weird though, I can drink/eat right before bed and fall asleep right away.

I find it helps to fall asleep having certain days where I only get 5-6 hours of sleep, that helps a lot when I want to sleep at 2am. Seriously, what do you think nightquil is made out of, water? It has a few things to get rid of your headache/cold but its main ingrediant is alcohol, so when you say you dont drink but do take nightquil, you are drinking about 1/10 a shot. If its the taste of alcohol that you dont like, try 99 barries, it actually doesnt taste half bad. If your under-age, your out of luck.

Seriously try getting bombed one night, and for you it would probably only take a few drinks, drinking is the very best way become tired (depressant) aside from perscription drugs.

I love red wine. On many occassions I've drank myself to sleep (don't judge me people, I was desperate ). It will knock me out cold but I'll wake up in 2 or 3 hours and then be screwed .

 

[Poulsonator]

I've taken Ambien and some over-the-counter stuff called Unisom. Both do a good job at helping me sleep, but Ambien is the way to go. Just remember to get at least 8 hours after taking. Otherwise you'll be groggy when waking up.

 

[slatr]

Coincedence or not, I have witnessed a number of similar situations Jbourne.

I do not care to enter into an argument with Torpid right how, but I am interested in seeing what else you have to say. Specifically, was this always an issue or did you notice it more so as an adult?

 

[torpid]

And I was all set to either pass by or offer what little advice I could until I saw some of your replies including one that implied you didn't talk to your doctor about it. I suppose I should have chalked it up to lack of sleep, though. My bad.

Are you taking any medication for ADHD?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: slatr
Coincedence or not, I have witnessed a number of similar situations Jbourne.

I do not care to enter into an argument with Torpid right how, but I am interested in seeing what else you have to say. Specifically, was this always an issue or did you notice it more so as an adult?

This became an issue when I started college. I was a pretty lazy student in high school. I graduated with a 3.2 but I got very serious about my education in college. Part of it was that I was paying my own way, but most of it was I wanted to see what I was capable of. I quickly gained a fascination for... well... anything. Heck, that's why I spend so much time on AT! I just like reading about people, their experiences, what they know, etc. When I lay down to go to sleep at night, all I can think of is "I wondering what's going on out there (in the world, not on AT )... oh I forgot to read up on this... damn I want to do that... ". ALL of my home improvement projects have been performed between the hours of 12am and 6am . Something might be on the HC or DC that I wanted to watch, or a book that I can't put down.

There's just always something that I'd rather be doing - something other than sleeping.

 

[Tbirdkid]

I have used ambien, and the doc just prescribed me some good stuff. He gave me Zanax. Holy sh1t. I sleep for like 13 hours after taking one of those.