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Amanda Knox guilty!

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Do you think trained interrigators, using a foreign language, going over the sequence of events over and over and over again for hours, scaring you by telling you that your story doesn't check out, could get some "incongruences" [sic] out of you?

Did you read a transcript of the entire interview? Does such a thing even exist?

She refused translators (possibly to later claim she did not understand, although by law if you refuse them you agree you do not need them).

Also, I can tell you no amount of interrogation would make me forget whether or not I was home with a man I accuse of being a murderer the night my roommate was killed (first version), or instead I was at a completely different location.

Sollecito, who is Italian, was caught in similar contraddictions.

P.s. English is my third language, but fail to see what is wrong with the word incongruences, which is a noun meaning not congruent. If it is not a legitimate use I would be grateful if you'd educate me about my mistake.
 
The entire case is nothing but a cheap tabloid media circus which has everything the media need, sex, murder etc.

Indeed.

They are often psychopaths and compulsive liars with an entirely messed up brain.

You cannot listen to such people and assume that what's coming out of their mouth is the truth and form an opinion based on that.

I've followed a lot of cases too, and I agree with you. Sometimes you end up with stone cold psychopaths who can lie effortlessly and project an image of normality. The "Ken and Barbie Killers" of Canada come to mind.

Thankfully, I didn't reach my conclusion of Knox and Sollecito's innocence by just listening to them and then believing it. The investigation and prosecution were deeply, deeply flawed with some bone-headed mistakes mixed with some very blatant gaming of the evidence to get the desired result, etc.

Neither of them come off to me as being killers, at all. That of course isn't enough to decide it for me or for anyone else, nor should it be. It is the fact that there is really NO CASE against them which seals it.

* The attempt of crime-scene cleanup w/ a mop and cleaning supplies at 7:00am in the morning?? Who seriously believes that someone in their early twenties would get up at 6:00ish am because of a trivial water leak in the kitchen? Seriously....

Good thing it didn't happen then.

* The staged break-in

There is no reason to believe the break-in was staged, and the method used was entirely consistent with Guede's previous break-ins. There is evidence in the room with the broken window which lends great credence to someone climbing in and snagging a TV cord on their leg as they did so. Stuff a couple of young people with no record would not think to stage.

* The framing

Regurgitating BS the police feed into your head when they've broken you down isn't "framing."

* The often bizarre and contradicting statement and lies. (Eg. about their whereabouts at the time of the murder where it was PROVEN that she lied initially...or how it was proven that a computer was accessed at a certain time where she claimed they slept etc...)

All easily explained by someone not having a great memory for exact details and times (PLENTY of us are this way) and it being exacerbated even further by being questioned endlessly in an extremely harsh set of circumstances, by people who go into it believing you're lying and won't budge on that belief.

Picture a 20 year old woman....someone was just brutally slaughtered/murdered IN THE ROOM RIGHT BESIDES YOURS in the house you live. What would a normal 20 year old's girl reaction be that a intruder/murderer rooms free somewhere out there, someone who broke into the house and slaughtered your room mate?

I can tell you that the normal reaction for pretty much anyone else would be to entirely freak out, end her trip instantly etc. I would freak out if I knew someone was murdered in my apartment complex and no-one knows why or who. And I am a grown up man. Now think about her reaction and most importantly ACTIONS...after something like that happened...

You don't really know what your reaction would be. People have different ways of reacting to completely crazy situations like someone close to them being murdered. Some people need some time to even process what has happened, especially if they didn't see the body themselves (Amanda did not see the body herself) - and if what happened is completely unexpected (it was) - this was something ENTIRELY outside of Knox's experience. I also think she was clearly a somewhat self-centered young woman (as many young people are) and her awareness and consideration for people around her were not stellar. I don't think Meredith was a super important person in her life, either positively or negatively. I think they had a slightly combative roommate dynamic, but pretty tame. Polite but distant most of the time, and they hadn't known each other long enough for her death to completely devastate Amanda, particularly for it to do so instantly. When what had happened really hit Amanda, I think the freakiest part for her was thinking how it could've been her instead or in addition to Meredith.

Again, self-absorbed young person with bad interpersonal skills and a bit tone deaf to things going on around her, but this is all WELL WITHIN the normal range of humanity, I've known plenty of people like this over the years, and it says absolutely nothing about them being a murderer.

most likely it was a sex game gone wrong.

The problem is, incidents like what the police and prosecution were envisioning just simply don't happen. Young people from well to do families who've only known eachother for a couple of weeks don't get together with some guy one of them doesn't know at all, and the other barely knows, and then go do a group rape-murder-sex-game stabbing Satanic ritual killing of the girl's roommate. And then out of the three of them, only one really leaves any evidence/DNA at the scene at all (the bra clasp is absolute BS, as is the kitchen knife) - and the one guy who just happens to be the only one who leaves evidence of himself at the scene, just HAPPENS to also be the only one out of the three of them who quickly flees the country, while the other two hang around for some reason? And he just HAPPENS to be the only one of the three who has a prior record of not only break-ins, but breaking in someplace with a rock through the window, but also of carrying a knife during his crimes.

The young men who lived in the downstairs flat at Via della Pergola 7, were unable to recall how Guede had met them, but did recall how, after his first visit to their home, they had found him later in the bathroom, sitting asleep on the unflushed toilet, which was full of feces.[179] Guede allegedly committed break ins, including one of a lawyer's office through a second-story window, and another during which he burgled a flat and brandished a jackknife when confronted.[180] On 27 October, days before Kercher's murder, Guede was arrested in Milan after breaking into a nursery school, he was reportedly found by police holding an 11-inch knife.[181][182]

Oh and he's also the one who admits to being in the room with Meredith while she was bleeding to death.

But again, the kind of group crime by strangers from different backgrounds that the prosecution cooked up in their sick minds, just doesn't happen. Much like what the West Memphis 3 were accused of was pretty clearly BS on its face, but paranoia about devil worship and such things will get the imaginations of rubes fired up.

Of course, there are sometimes completely weird crimes that defy all expectations, so just saying "that doesn't happen" is naturally not sufficient. It is however, more than sufficient when combined with the lack of any evidence of Knox and Sollecito's involvement, and the fact that the scenario has no better basis than being pulled out of the prosecutor's ass.

This is NOT a far-fetched scenario.

It really, really is. Why does one of the three killers flee the country while the other two stay put and voluntarily engage with police after stashing one of the supposed murder weapons in... their kitchen drawer? C'mon.

The problem is with the system...she was questioned for four days, with who knows how much sleep. At that point, I would confess to being the King of England or the Almighty God.

Exactly.
 
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To me the clear eyebrow raiser is the attempt to frame somebody else in a deliberate way. If you are interviewed about something you know nothing of you would never do that, and you would definitely show some shock in the face of the murder of your friend. None of them did.


You have never been interrogated have you, a good interrogator can get you to admit to nearly anything, Happens in the US. They break you down to the point where you just tell them what they want to hear to get them to stop.

also not everyone reacts to bad news (death of someone) in hysterics and shock
 
OK...it looks like some of you guys follow this way to closely.


Can someone give me a $.05 version of what supposedly happened? All I know is she is hot and was accused of murder.
 
She refused translators (possibly to later claim she did not understand, although by law if you refuse them you agree you do not need them).



P.s. English is my third language, but fail to see what is wrong with the word incongruences , which is a noun meaning not congruent. If it is not a legitimate use I would be grateful if you'd educate me about my mistake.

1st) I am learning that Italians and Americans have a different sense of how Police and Prosecutors should behave. To me the case seems like someone latched on to a bad idea and decided to keep running with it to the point of madness

2nd) Your English is pretty good the world incongruences is an odd word that wouldn't be used in normal conversations. Its too bulky and complicated, inconsistencies is a much better description of what happened.
 
Good thing it didn't happen then.

What "didn't happen" is that a receipt for bleach was not found.

What happened is that a witness claimed to have seen Amanda at 7:00am ish in the morning at his store wanting to buy cleaning supplies.

Obviously, this was only a WITNESS STATEMENT by the store owner and obviously this also has never been proven - however, for me as an "armchair detective" it is an interesting detail which helps to form a broader picture.

Fact is (and correct me if I am wrong) that Amanda and R. were "interrupted" by the police in the wee morning hours and I think to remember with cleaning supplies...

AT 7AM ISH IN THE MORNING IN FRONT OF THE APARTMENT WHERE A MURDER JUST HAPPENED WITH CLEANERS AND A MOP

Whether a receipt for bleach was found for me is not really irrelevant, what is relevant for me is that some 20 year olds thought it was justified to get up at the crack at dawn to take care of a trivial water leak in the kitchen....and POSSIBLY (according to witness statement) wait at a store in the wee hours to buy cleaning supplies the instant the store opens.

Also....you mentioned somewhere that it is odd that Guede fled and the two others stayed in Italy.....interpreting this as a sign of their innocence.

Of course they didn't "flee" since police got involved far earlier than they POSSIBLY thought - if we take the theory that they were surprised/interrupted by the police right the instant they actually wanted to get rid of evidence.

And I am terribly sorry, getting to the apt. at the early wee hours with a mop where a murder JUST HAPPENED SOME HOURS EARLIER looks very much like an attempt to get rid of evidence to me.
 
Young people from well to do families who've only known eachother for a couple of weeks don't get together with some guy one of them doesn't know at all,

Witnesses saw the victim leaving a disco with Guede. She did know him.

Also, if you think people from well to do families never have sexual encounters with people they barely know you have not been paying much attention during college. I know many former college friends of mine, of both genders, who would "pick-up strays" all the time.
 
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article-2549420-1B1A358300000578-982_964x374.jpg



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ct-live-interview-vows-fight-extradition.html
 
You have never been interrogated have you, a good interrogator can get you to admit to nearly anything, Happens in the US. They break you down to the point where you just tell them what they want to hear to get them to stop.

also not everyone reacts to bad news (death of someone) in hysterics and shock

I have never been interrogated. I can very well envision myself breaking down and crying like a baby. Accusing somebody out of the blue and changing my story from "I was there and I heard XYZ" to "I was a few miles away and have no idea what happened", not a chance.

I googled the crime scene photos.

No way a chick did that. Too messy.

Nobody is saying she did it alone.

1st) I am learning that Italians and Americans have a different sense of how Police and Prosecutors should behave. To me the case seems like someone latched on to a bad idea and decided to keep running with it to the point of madness

2nd) Your English is pretty good the world incongruences is an odd word that wouldn't be used in normal conversations. Its too bulky and complicated, inconsistencies is a much better description of what happened.

She was totally cool in the first interviews, so much so she declined the translators they offered to her.

Later (much later in fact) she claimed she was interviewed under duress, but that statement has been denied by multiple witnesses and she was actually sued for it.

And again, everybody focuses on her, but Sollecito's narrative has the same inconsistencies.
 
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1. it's not abnormal for the prosecution to be able to appeal if they aren't happy with the result. The defence can do this, why not the prosecution?
2. the italian justice system is a slow moving messed up machine with many levels to go through and many different courts that come into play if you want to drag a trial to the end. There are many paths. Think of a messed up flowchart.
She wasn't really tried twice because the first trial was annulled.

3. the media interviewed 2 american law experts: they disagree. One says that extradition explicitly doesn't cover cases where double jeopardy happens, the other says double jeopardy didn't even happen and so she can be extradited.

4. there still is an appeal, nothing is definitive at this point, they just took Sollecito's passport away to prevent him from fleeing.
 
It bugs me that cases like this we will probably never know the truth. Same with the Casey Anthony trial, etc.

IMO Knox probably had something to do with the murder. I don't think a woman would be the type to commit a brutal stabbing, but she might have been there or somehow ordered it. Then again, if the Italian justice system is as corrupt as people are saying it is, a lot of the evidence could be totally fabricated or changed in ways to support the case against her.
 
1. it's not abnormal for the prosecution to be able to appeal if they aren't happy with the result. The defence can do this, why not the prosecution?
2. the italian justice system is a slow moving messed up machine with many levels to go through and many different courts that come into play if you want to drag a trial to the end.
She wasn't really tried twice because the first trial was annulled.

3. the media interviewed 2 american law experts: they disagree. One says that extradition explicitly doesn't cover cases where double jeopardy happens, the other says double jeopardy didn't even happen and so she can be extradited.

4. there still is an appeal, nothing is definitive at this point, they just took Sollecito's passport away to prevent him from fleeing.

1) Both sides have three levels/degrees in each trial. But when found not guilty, at any level, you are considered innocent (that's why they could leave the country) until the next one.

3) Somebody in her defense team says that double jeopardy does not apply in this case. They would wait the final and definitive verdict (the third one) before pursuing extradition (if they were to, which is definitely not certain).

4) ...and today they found him suspiciously close to the Austrian border...
 
why do you think she had something to do with it? Im really confused to how anyone can not see that it was a rape/murder where 2 innocent people got fucked over
 
Nobody is saying she did it alone.

And the physical evidence in the room does not place her OR Sollecito in the room. There is no way she and Sollecito could have been in that room and NOT left physical evidence.

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] "...Evidence of Rudy Guede’s presence and participation are everywhere; bloody footprints, DNA, fingerprints, palm prints, bodily fluids, hair and even fecal matter. Nobody; not even Rudy Guede disputes this evidence. How then can the total absence of evidence of any other person be explained? The prosecution cannot provide an answer.[/FONT]"

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"...Amanda Knox is alleged to be the person who stabbed Meredith Kercher. She would therefore have been in VERY close proximity to Meredith—well within an arm length. Blood spatter evidence at the scene is consistent with ‘projected’, or ‘medium velocity impact spatter (MVIS) blood stains which travel at between 1.5 meters per second (mps) and 7.5 mps. (That is an arm-length in ½ second). Blood was spattered several feet away from Meredith’s wounds. It is inconceivable that the person stabbing Meredith was not contaminated by blood spatter. Guede was."

"...
[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Guede stepped in the blood, Guede put his hand in the blood, Guede touched surfaces all around the room. Yet neither Amanda Knox, nor Raffaele Sollecito came in contact with any blood? This is difficult to conceive, as even if they avoided the large blood pools and spatters, it would be impossible to avoid stepping on the bloody (but sometimes latent) footprints left by Guede."

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html
[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
 
It bugs me that cases like this we will probably never know the truth. Same with the Casey Anthony trial, etc.

IMO Knox probably had something to do with the murder. I don't think a woman would be the type to commit a brutal stabbing, but she might have been there or somehow ordered it. Then again, if the Italian justice system is as corrupt as people are saying it is, a lot of the evidence could be totally fabricated or changed in ways to support the case against her.
Italy is a slave of the US, their foreign policy is a joke. If they were changing evidence around, it'd be in favour of the only american involved.
The reality is that it's a difficult case without smoking guns.

There's no corruption or any of that in cases like this. The justice system in Italy is generally pretty clean although very slow and inefficient. I guess that governments can slow it down but they can't change facts. Berlusconi survived 20 years with various tactics but in the end they got to him.
 
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I have never been interrogated. I can very well envision myself breaking down and crying like a baby. Accusing somebody out of the blue and changing my story from "I was there and I heard XYZ" to "I was a few miles away and have no idea what happened", not a chance.

Wait until you get married. You nailed it as to what happens 😉
 
You do realize you're wrong on the burden of proof, right?

Nope. I just went through the process with a speedcam in October.

With civil cases it's up to YOU to prove you're not guilty, and the burden of proof is with the accuser. The city said I was speeding, and I was guilty. I had to obtain documentation showing the camera had not been calibrated recently, was giving a false reading, or some other factor was at play resulting in a wrong detection of my speed or I was going to have to pay the ticket.

I argued that there was no police officer present, taking away my 6th Amendment right to face my accuser, the camera company processes recordings after-the-fact and gives the recording to law enforcement and that equates to here-say, and the camera company is biased because they gather income by processing traffic tickets for the city.

All of these arguments would have gotten then case thrown out in a standard court trial, but it's a civil trial and therefore none of these arguments applied.
 
These are parts of the first interview...

“I can’t remember if my friend Meredith was there or if she came later. We were all separate,” she said.

“He (Lumumba) wanted her (Meredith).

“Yes we were in the house. We were drunk. We asked her to join us.

“Diya wanted her. Raffaele and I went into another room and then I heard screams.

“Patrick and Meredith were in Meredith’s bedroom while I think I stayed in the kitchen.

Patrick is the guy that was initially framed. Later she claimed she was actually not at the house. I think anybody can get a personal opinion if such a U-turn can be the result of interview techniques. She also claimed Sollecito was at the house, while his first version, given at the same time, was he stayed home.

Later, he changed his story a total of 4 times.

Here there is quite a lot of information translated in English.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...he_prosecution_4_amanda_knoxs_multiple_confl/
 
Italy is a slave of the US, their foreign policy is a joke. If they were changing evidence around, it'd be in favour of the only american involved.
The reality is that it's a difficult case without smoking guns.

There's no corruption or any of that in cases like this. The justice system in Italy is generally pretty clean although very slow and inefficient. I guess that governments can slow it down but they can't change facts. Berlusconi survived 20 years with various tactics but in the end they got to him.

I see. Well I read the wiki page on the case briefly and I do remember reading about how at first they said they found DNA of the victim on a knife from the Italian guy's kitchen, yet somehow the evidence was thrown out or not allowed because it was not collected right, or there was a chance of contamination.

If that's the case, to me that says they did find DNA on the knife of the victim, but some dumb lab tech did not handle it properly. If that is the case, at the very least she is involved in some kind of conspiracy, even if she did not commit the crim itself. Same for her now ex boyfriend.

Also, I'm still kind of missing the connection between the black guy who's in jail for the murder as well and her. They met at a club and she took him home with her? And that somehow led to him raping and killing the victim???
 
I see. Well I read the wiki page on the case briefly and I do remember reading about how at first they said they found DNA of the victim on a knife from the Italian guy's kitchen, yet somehow the evidence was thrown out or not allowed because it was not collected right, or there was a chance of contamination.

If that's the case, to me that says they did find DNA on the knife of the victim, but some dumb lab tech did not handle it properly. If that is the case, at the very least she is involved in some kind of conspiracy, even if she did not commit the crim itself. Same for her now ex boyfriend.

Also, I'm still kind of missing the connection between the black guy who's in jail for the murder as well and her. They met at a club and she took him home with her? And that somehow led to him raping and killing the victim???

If I remember correctly the knife was not admitted because the material was not enough for a re-test.

The guy in jail was at the scene, he does not dispute that, and certainly played a role in the murder.
(That makes the break-in staged, as she took the guy back with her. No need to break a window).
 
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