AM2 around the corner...noone cares???

[22hertz]

I need to build a new computer and was thinking of holding out to see what AM2 has to offer (and seeing what Intel has up thier sleeve as well).

searching brought up a few negative predictions about socket AM2.
Will this be a step forward or backward for AMD?

FYI this PC will run engineering programs and needs to be stable...not a gamer

 

[n7]

Of course it's a step forward, a good one too.

However, it's step that many of us agree that's really not worth waiting for.

I hate to to rag on this, but really, no one really knows for sure till it's out...so no real point in making countless posts of speculation...

 

[Allio]

Can't wait for those hardware DRM and trusted computing solutions! Thanks, AMD.

 

[Zap]

I just recently upgraded my system to an overclocked x2 with 2GB of low latency RAM. No need to think about upgrades again for a while. The exciting thing for me would be access to cheaper DDR2 RAM and hoping that with the AM2 coming out, Semprons for socket 939 may finally make it into the aftermarket. Of course that pipe dream is up there with hoping for $150 lower speed x2 CPUs as well as Duke Nukem Forever being released, but we can hope.

 

[Furen]

Supposedly they'll be Dual-Channel DDR2 Semprons out when AM2 arrives so even if we dont see them on socket 939 initially there'll be the choice of going AM2 (which is a better choice if the prices are similar). I think AM2 will be interesting but I wouldn't count on it performing much better. This depends on how good AMD's DDR2 controller is, we could actually get some good performance numbers but I'd expect pretty much the same performance per clock. Of course we really havent heard much about AM2 aside from the fact that it will support Presidio, Pacifica and DDR2. I'd hope AMD would keep the same heatsink mounting design since it was pretty good, in my opinion.

 

[biostud]

Another problem is that we don't really know when the corner is. If it's Q2 '06 or later it's still some time away. And most benchmarks with o/c DDR speeds haven't shown great increases in speed for AMD. The most interesting about AM2 will be 65nm CPU's.

 

[MADMAX23]

Personally, I would wait about a year after the launch of the new AM2 socket by AMD. You may wonder...why? Well, experience tells me that when a new socket comes out, a first generation of motherborads comes out, being these mobos not good for enthusiasts since they have bugs and are not good for overclocking if we compare them to the 2nd and 3rd generation/wave of motherboards that will come out a year or so after AM2 hits the streets.

Think that DDR2 modules are still rather new, tight latencies like 2-2-2-5 1T will not be seen for a while, maybe we´ll have to wait for 6 months at least to see a DDR2 4200 or 4300 modules running at those tight timings with a normal DDR2 voltage.

Right now, the tightest DDR2 Ram modules are the OCZ DDR2 PC2-4200EB Platinum Ltd. Rev.2 with 3-2-2-8 1T timings at 533Mhz (266x2) and they cost 375$ for the 1Gb (2x512Mb) set, that's rather expensive if you compare its price with current top notch DDR modules prices. You may think you could run them at 2-2-2-5 1T, huh? No, although you could get them on your system, you wouldn't be able to run them with CAS 2 at a lower frequency because mobos don't support it for now, we´ll have to wait.

Also consider that the current AMD Cpu line-up does not like the loose Ram timings DDR2 provide right now, time will solve these issues I hope, IMO, you should wait at least for the 2nd wave of AM2 motherboards from a vendor after socket AM2 appears.

I will wait about a year with my 939 setup, upgrading the cpu to Dual core, for example, and the video card to the new g71 gpu from nvidia...or the DFI SLI-DR to the SLI-DR Expert...that kind of upgrades, but maintaining the socket 939 platform and DDR ram.

 

[Brunnis]

Originally posted by: MADMAX23
Think that DDR2 modules are still rather new, tight latencies like 2-2-2-5 1T will not be seen for a while, maybe we´ll have to wait for 6 months at least to see a DDR2 4200 or 4300 modules running at those tight timings with a normal DDR2 voltage.

Right now, the tightest DDR2 Ram modules are the OCZ DDR2 PC2-4200EB Platinum Ltd. Rev.2 with 3-2-2-8 1T timings at 533Mhz (266x2) and they cost 375$ for the 1Gb (2x512Mb) set, that's rather expensive if you compare its price with current top notch DDR modules prices. You may think you could run them at 2-2-2-5 1T, huh? No, although you could get them on your system, you wouldn't be able to run them with CAS 2 at a lower frequency because mobos don't support it for now, we´ll have to wait.

Also consider that the current AMD Cpu line-up does not like the loose Ram timings DDR2 provide right now, time will solve these issues I hope, IMO, you should wait at least for the 2nd wave of AM2 motherboards from a vendor after socket AM2 appears.

Just remember that access times are a function of clock frequency too, since access latencies are given in number of clock cycles. What this means in practice is that DDR2-667 with 3-3-3 timings gives slightly faster access times than DDR400 with 2-2-2 timings. Not only that, but it also provides much higher bandwidth.

Although these changes might not affect real world performance much, they're atleast a slight step forward. It's also quite possible that AMD have tweaked the new revisions to make the CPUs another few percents faster than their predecessors. That, along with a supposedly tweaked 90nm process and future 65nm CPUs, makes Socket AM2 well worth waiting for, in my opinion.

 

[MADMAX23]

Yeah, I see the coming socket AM2 to be good news, but we´ll have to wait about a year from its launch to have good oc and stable boards and better memory to squeeze its potential...that's all!

 

[jiffylube1024]

AM2, at launch, doesn't look to be any more attractive than X2 on Socket 939 aside from a few minor tweaks and improvements.

It's certainly the future, and in a year or so when faster chips come out it will obviously be the sucessor to S939, but for the moment the AM2 looks to be a needless upgrade for most current A64 users; almost akin to the original P4 launch only not a failure .

 

[Viditor]

AM2 (Rev F) at launch will probably have at least one speed bump, will have increased bandwidth (DDR2 667MHz), and may be a much better overclocker if it is using (as I suspect it will) the new SiGe strained silicon process. As to any other benefits, none have been announced...though keep in mind that Rev E had several very important upgrades that weren't announced prior to release either.

 

[carlosd]

But isn't the K8 architecture much less sensitive to memory bandwitdth than P4? What about the latencies of DDR2. I think that it won't be such a performance improvement for AMD. Maybe as viditor say, it could be better in the OC area. Anyway I will stick with my X2 939 until a significative bump in performance appear, DRR3?

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Furen
Supposedly they'll be Dual-Channel DDR2 Semprons out when AM2 arrives so even if we dont see them on socket 939 initially there'll be the choice of going AM2

This would be interesting. Gonna kick one down and wait :beer:

Originally posted by: MADMAX23
IMO, you should wait at least for the 2nd wave of AM2 motherboards from a vendor after socket AM2 appears.

That's some good advice. First gen 845 chipset Intel boards were SDRAM. First gen VIA DDR boards for socket A were the KT266. First gen Nvidia boards for A64 were Nforce3 150. Second wave of boards/chipsets usually has all the bugs ironed out.

 

[rise]

noone cares???

nope.

well, actually, i al;ways like to read some benches but i won't be buying :beer:

 

[Griswold]

Originally posted by: 22hertz

FYI this PC will run engineering programs and needs to be stable...not a gamer

When you say stable, you might want to wait for the second iteration of chipsets/mainboards. That could also mean until end of 2006 or even early 2007 though.

Under these conditions, I dont think its worth waiting at all. Buy now and upgrade again sometime in late 2007 or even 2008, especially if you work with your computer. It will last much longer than a gamer system anyway.

 

[Furen]

Originally posted by: Brunnis

Just remember that access times are a function of clock frequency too, since access latencies are given in number of clock cycles. What this means in practice is that DDR2-667 with 3-3-3 timings gives slightly faster access times than DDR400 with 2-2-2 timings. Not only that, but it also provides much higher bandwidth.

Not quite. Latency for DDR2 667 at CAS3 is the equivalent of DDR333 at CAS3, which is about 18ns. Though the IO buffer on DDR2 works at 333MHz the actual memory chips work at 166MHz, which is the same as the memory chips on DDR333. DDR400 at CAS2, on the other hand, has a latency of about 10ns. Of course having more bandwidth will probably offset for the latency and as clock speeds increase having more bandwidth becomes more and more useful, not to mention that the number of cores being fed by the mem controller suddenly doubled last year. All in all, whether or not we get a performance increase probably depends on how good the DDR2 memory controller on these chips ends up being.

 

[Corporate Thug]

too excited about G71 and ocz phase change

 

[Makubex GB]

I'm also about to build a new system, but I decided to wait for the new CPUs and Vid Cards to come out. I'm especially waiting for AMD's AM2 because they are switching to DDR2, and I don't want to spend all my cash on a rig today that will have very little or no upgrade possibilities.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I be waiting for AM2 because that will probably when i get a new comp. However, next comp is a lappy for college so a Intel Core Duo will probably be my next computer.

 

[justly]

I'm intrested since I am hoping to do a major upgrade summer/fall timeframe.
I do expect AM2 to be a slight improvement, anything more I would consider a blessing.

As for all the warnings about waiting "a year" or for "the second wave" to buy a motherboard that sounds overly cautious (almost to the point of being idiotic) for anyone not planning on extreme overclocking. The only changes socket AM2 makes to the motherboard is the socket and memory AFAIK. Since the memory comunicates directly to the processor there should be no need to go throu the growing pains of a new chipset. Also, the physical implementation of DDR-2 on a AMD board should be minimal since it has been used for some time now on Intel systems. The way I see it the AM2 boards should come out the gate with the same physical abilities as current AMD boards, thats not to say that a BIOS update couldn't improve things (since the integrated memory controller will be new), but I really doubt the actual boards or chipsets will need time to mature.

 

[The Sly Syl]

I'll be upgrading to AM2 late 2007 is my current goal.

Once quad-core cpu's are out and if they are somewhat a decent cost, i'll go for one of them and a DX10 (or 11) card and vista.

My current rig shall have to suffice to then.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: justly
I'm intrested since I am hoping to do a major upgrade summer/fall timeframe.
I do expect AM2 to be a slight improvement, anything more I would consider a blessing.

As for all the warnings about waiting "a year" or for "the second wave" to buy a motherboard that sounds overly cautious (almost to the point of being idiotic) for anyone not planning on extreme overclocking. The only changes socket AM2 makes to the motherboard is the socket and memory AFAIK. Since the memory comunicates directly to the processor there should be no need to go throu the growing pains of a new chipset. Also, the physical implementation of DDR-2 on a AMD board should be minimal since it has been used for some time now on Intel systems. The way I see it the AM2 boards should come out the gate with the same physical abilities as current AMD boards, thats not to say that a BIOS update couldn't improve things (since the integrated memory controller will be new), but I really doubt the actual boards or chipsets will need time to mature.

That is a good point. I would suggest maybe waiting for the second revision of the AM2 CPUs so they can better tune the memory controller.

 

[aLeoN]

What would the 333 HTT do in combination with DDR2 support? That's what I'm most curious about.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I be waiting for AM2 because that will probably when i get a new comp. However, next comp is a lappy for college so a Intel Core Duo will probably be my next computer.

Good choice. Core Duo is the wave of the future!

 

[carlosd]

FelixDeKat is the intel troll of the present!