Am i truely a Liberal?

[Doc Savage Fan]

I know this wasnt directed at me, but since im the OP ill share my views.

I basically have the same opinion as you overall. Once profit is introduced the services get worse. Certain things need to remain state and/or government run for the betterment of humanity.

Competition and profits are the primary drivers of efficiencies and service quality...how will eliminating these drive better efficiencies and service? I don't see it.

 

[Matt1970]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tydas
Here is another differentiator, do you feel that ‘privatization’ is the way to go for certain services/ industries that could be run by government? i.e. education, healthcare, utilities, prisons, etc.
Personally, I think there a plenty of services/ industries where the public got no benefit at all from privatization unless of course you’re a shareholder of the company…

I know this wasnt directed at me, but since im the OP ill share my views.

I basically have the same opinion as you overall. Once profit is introduced the services get worse. Certain things need to remain state and/or government run for the betterment of humanity.

Education: We spend more per student than any other nation for Higher Education but rank in double digits for quality of education. We are 3rd in spending in middle and high school and rank well into the double digits again.

Healthcare: Obamacare was supposed to have brought healthcare premiums down $2500 by now but they actually have gone up by about the same amount.

Utilities: ask anyone who happens to have National Grid in the Northeast how Gov price regulations are working for them.

I don't have any data for prisons off the top of my head, but since TSA took over airport security we spend 10X what we used to and we still and the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber and countless weapons still get on aircrafts.

This “betterment of humanity” needs some serious work.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Education: We spend more per student than any other nation for Higher Education but rank in double digits for quality of education. We are 3rd in spending in middle and high school and rank well into the double digits again.

Healthcare: Obamacare was supposed to have brought healthcare premiums down $2500 by now but they actually have gone up by about the same amount.

Utilities: ask anyone who happens to have National Grid in the Northeast how Gov price regulations are working for them.

I don't have any data for prisons off the top of my head, but since TSA took over airport security we spend 10X what we used to and we still and the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber and countless weapons still get on aircrafts.

This “betterment of humanity” needs some serious work.

Education is mostly affected by the student's personal home life. If their father is drunk and beating their mom every night I doubt they are getting much homework done. The reason I point this out is that America is near the bottom of the barrel these days when it comes to the family unit thanks to the ever worsening economic climate where you either make it big and your wife usually sticks around or you don't, in which case she often leaves. As I'm sure you're willing to ignore, this have become a huge issue in the last 40 years while middle class jobs have been shipped out of this country.

Healthcare would not be an issue if those some people that shipped out the jobs hadn't decided to cut insurance for basically anyone that wasn't white collar. You don't want to pay the government to run healthcare? Then quit worshipping anti-American business leaders.

Utilities are a monopoly, somehow legally it seems. If you follow econ, which I'm sure you do because you're not a moron, then you know the prices we pay for them are artificially inflated by a lack of competition.

Competition and profits are the primary drivers of efficiencies and service quality...how will eliminating these drive better efficiencies and service? I don't see it.

Have you tried to get any customer service from a big company recently?

Yeah, any other stupid ideillogical (yeah it's not a word, but in this case it should be) quotes you want to copy and paste for us?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Have you tried to get any customer service from a big company recently?

Yeah, any other stupid ideillogical (yeah it's not a word, but in this case it should be) quotes you want to copy and paste for us?

You didn't answer my "stupid" question.

 

[Matt1970]

Education is mostly affected by the student's personal home life. If their father is drunk and beating their mom every night I doubt they are getting much homework done. The reason I point this out is that America is near the bottom of the barrel these days when it comes to the family unit thanks to the ever worsening economic climate where you either make it big and your wife usually sticks around or you don't, in which case she often leaves. As I'm sure you're willing to ignore, this have become a huge issue in the last 40 years while middle class jobs have been shipped out of this country.

Healthcare would not be an issue if those some people that shipped out the jobs hadn't decided to cut insurance for basically anyone that wasn't white collar. You don't want to pay the government to run healthcare? Then quit worshipping anti-American business leaders.

Utilities are a monopoly, somehow legally it seems. If you follow econ, which I'm sure you do because you're not a moron, then you know the prices we pay for them are artificially inflated by a lack of competition.



Have you tried to get any customer service from a big company recently?

Yeah, any other stupid ideillogical (yeah it's not a word, but in this case it should be) quotes you want to copy and paste for us?

Speaking of stupid you managed to blame healthcare and education on shipping jobs overseas.

 

[soulcougher73]

Speaking of stupid you managed to blame healthcare and education on shipping jobs overseas.

The disconnect is strong in this one

 

[Pr0d1gy]

You didn't answer my "stupid" question.

They'll hire Americans. The picture should have been enough of an answer but obvious troll needs obvious response I see.

The service is immediately better because I CAN COMMUNICATE WITH THE PERSON ON THE PHONE.

And "efficiency", well you and I both know that is just another buzz word created by the financial PR elite to bullshit Americans. What's next, you gonna tell me how "job creators" will not make as many jobs if we raise taxes? This is the same old bullshit. They say Americans are lazy when we outwork every other non-sadist group in the world. They say we build inferior products whilst they cust costs by acquiring cheaper materials and rushing workers to meet quotas, instead of awarding top notch QC.

The funny thing is I think you really know this to be true but, for some reason, you continue to spew the bullshit anti-American venom that your boss/dad/tranny dominatrix has sold you on. Well, I've had you on ignore for awhile and I think now is a good time to just let you jerk yourself off all over this thread and stalk me throughout the forum like you seem to want to do...lol

I'm done with you and the rest of the shills in here.

This disconnect is strong in this one

Yeah, do us all a favor and quit quoting them. I will do the same. People shouldn't be forced to read Alex Jones Limbaugh's latest thoughts on the world everyday.

 

[werepossum]

Since I seem to get called a liberal every so often on here even though I don’t personally consider myself one, id like P&N to try and label me as best they can. The closest big party to my views is probably Libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) but even that I don’t consider myself 100% in bed with the parties views. Here are my Pro/Anti views on a lot of the major political topics. Feel free to pigeon hole as best you can. Mostly I’m a live and let live kind of person. I try not to tell others what to do unless they are harming or exploiting or infringing on others rights.

The last time I voted was for 2008 for Bob Barr only because I hate Dem and GOP more. But I don’t vote anymore (EC) as I’m sure most already know.

PRO:
Pro-Choice
Legal Immigration
Same sex marriage at a federal level with all benefit/negatives that come with it.
Gun ownership
Death penalty (in fact use it more). I’d personally be fine with public hangings.
Vigilante justice doesn’t bother me (not saying it’s right or wrong, just doesn’t bother me)
MJ legalization
Regulations on businesses, finance etc.
VERY pro separation of church and state
UHC (single payer)
Safety nets in general (welfare needs a major overhaul, no living off it for life crap, bare minimum food to survive) basically just enough that you’ll want to work to get off it.
Tax payer funded college/trade school
Strong middle class
Unions in theory (I understand that some get greedy and too powerful, then I’m against them)

ANTI:
illegal immigration
War on Drugs
Greed (stock market, profits at all costs)
World Police, Military Industrial Complex
Outsourcing, global economy (I’m fine with trading with other countries, just not exploiting them for cheap labor)
Electoral College

I’m sure there are more, and feel free to throw a topic at me and ill give me stance on it.

Let me have it

I'd say you are a left-leaning libertarian. Your positions are similar to my own except I'm less concerned about building a wall between church and state, don't support UHC above the state level, support the electoral college, and am against taxpayer-funded higher education except via loans and low income/merit based grants. I also look askance at someone claiming to be anti-greed, because it's easy to define that to support greed as long as it's in your own interests, but since I don't want to claim to be pro-greed I'll just agree with you. LOL But overall your positions seem to be pretty balanced and thoughtful.

 

[werepossum]

Education is mostly affected by the student's personal home life. If their father is drunk and beating their mom every night I doubt they are getting much homework done. The reason I point this out is that America is near the bottom of the barrel these days when it comes to the family unit thanks to the ever worsening economic climate where you either make it big and your wife usually sticks around or you don't, in which case she often leaves. As I'm sure you're willing to ignore, this have become a huge issue in the last 40 years while middle class jobs have been shipped out of this country.

Healthcare would not be an issue if those some people that shipped out the jobs hadn't decided to cut insurance for basically anyone that wasn't white collar. You don't want to pay the government to run healthcare? Then quit worshipping anti-American business leaders.

Utilities are a monopoly, somehow legally it seems. If you follow econ, which I'm sure you do because you're not a moron, then you know the prices we pay for them are artificially inflated by a lack of competition.



Have you tried to get any customer service from a big company recently?

Yeah, any other stupid ideillogical (yeah it's not a word, but in this case it should be) quotes you want to copy and paste for us?

Three brief points. First, outsourcing customer service to India or China IS an efficiency, but one directly related to government regulation. Government both drives the costs up with regulations (many if not most of which are good and worth having) and allows practical outsourcing through the laws it passes and enforces.

Second, describing competition and the profit motive as the main driving forces of efficiency and service isn't ideological, it's simply fact. There's a reason one gets better service from UPS than from the post office, and it's because UPS faces competition and the need to turn a profit.

Third, if you're against something and want others to be against it, don't choose a picture of a hot chick as representative of it. At least, not on tech forums which tend to be heavily male.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Actually Jhhnn, Bush never said that. He said

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_either_with_us,_or_against_us

If you don't know, don't put it in quotation marks.

Thanks for proving my earlier point about liberals.

hey would someone please give mono the semantic stubborness of the day award?

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Three brief points. First, outsourcing customer service to India or China IS an efficiency, but one directly related to government regulation. Government both drives the costs up with regulations (many if not most of which are good and worth having) and allows practical outsourcing through the laws it passes and enforces.

Second, describing competition and the profit motive as the main driving forces of efficiency and service isn't ideological, it's simply fact. There's a reason one gets better service from UPS than from the post office, and it's because UPS faces competition and the need to turn a profit.

Third, if you're against something and want others to be against it, don't choose a picture of a hot chick as representative of it. At least, not on tech forums which tend to be heavily male.

Ah we really should a good thread discussion of efficiency vs effectiveness

 

[monovillage]

hey would someone please give mono the semantic stubborness of the day award?

Thank you and thank the academy.

 

[spittledip]

Who cares about the label? Of course, makes me wonder why you seem to care about the label...?

 

[werepossum]

Ah we really should a good thread discussion of efficiency vs effectiveness

Probably, although it's getting ever harder just to agree on basic terms.

 

[Ausm]

The disconnect is strong in this one

That's an under statement.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

don't choose a picture of a hot chick

lol wtf barely average at BEST.

Well, you did a good job spewing the typical wannabe Repub economy corporate line of bullshit, the problem is that this "economy" no longer runs on any of the accepted economic theories this world subscribes to.

Once again, I just don't see any point in going back and forth with you. You'll just spew some bullshit about Austrian econ and how great our capitalist system is, and I will just say that they are great but long gone from this country.

Thus, since you continually just come in here to regurgitate right wing lies I'll just toss you onto the ole ignore list and continue speaking with the people who have some grip on reality.

 

[Matt1970]

That's an under statement.

Yep, Prodigy blames the problems with healthcare and education on shipping jobs overseas and I get accused of being the one with the disconnect. Is there no limit with you buffoons?

 

[Jadow]

yes, it's true. this man has no dick

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

They'll hire Americans. The picture should have been enough of an answer but obvious troll needs obvious response I see.

The service is immediately better because I CAN COMMUNICATE WITH THE PERSON ON THE PHONE.

And "efficiency", well you and I both know that is just another buzz word created by the financial PR elite to bullshit Americans. What's next, you gonna tell me how "job creators" will not make as many jobs if we raise taxes? This is the same old bullshit. They say Americans are lazy when we outwork every other non-sadist group in the world. They say we build inferior products whilst they cust costs by acquiring cheaper materials and rushing workers to meet quotas, instead of awarding top notch QC.

The funny thing is I think you really know this to be true but, for some reason, you continue to spew the bullshit anti-American venom that your boss/dad/tranny dominatrix has sold you on. Well, I've had you on ignore for awhile and I think now is a good time to just let you jerk yourself off all over this thread and stalk me throughout the forum like you seem to want to do...lol

I'm done with you and the rest of the shills in here.

You still didn't answer my "stupid" question. You appear to have a serious issue with reading comprehension.

Somehow I don't mind being ignored by a "prodigy" like you. It's a win-win outcome imo.

Pr0d1gy...the intellectual giant who walks among us.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34309833&postcount=201

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Sorry, I couldn't hear you. What?

 

[BurnItDwn]

To the OP, I'd simply say you're a moderate.