Am i truely a Liberal?

[soulcougher73]

Since I seem to get called a liberal every so often on here even though I don’t personally consider myself one, id like P&N to try and label me as best they can. The closest big party to my views is probably Libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) but even that I don’t consider myself 100% in bed with the parties views. Here are my Pro/Anti views on a lot of the major political topics. Feel free to pigeon hole as best you can. Mostly I’m a live and let live kind of person. I try not to tell others what to do unless they are harming or exploiting or infringing on others rights.

The last time I voted was for 2008 for Bob Barr only because I hate Dem and GOP more. But I don’t vote anymore (EC) as I’m sure most already know.

PRO:
Pro-Choice
Legal Immigration
Same sex marriage at a federal level with all benefit/negatives that come with it.
Gun ownership
Death penalty (in fact use it more). I’d personally be fine with public hangings.
Vigilante justice doesn’t bother me (not saying it’s right or wrong, just doesn’t bother me)
MJ legalization
Regulations on businesses, finance etc.
VERY pro separation of church and state
UHC (single payer)
Safety nets in general (welfare needs a major overhaul, no living off it for life crap, bare minimum food to survive) basically just enough that you’ll want to work to get off it.
Tax payer funded college/trade school
Strong middle class
Unions in theory (I understand that some get greedy and too powerful, then I’m against them)

ANTI:
illegal immigration
War on Drugs
Greed (stock market, profits at all costs)
World Police, Military Industrial Complex
Outsourcing, global economy (I’m fine with trading with other countries, just not exploiting them for cheap labor)
Electoral College

I’m sure there are more, and feel free to throw a topic at me and ill give me stance on it.

Let me have it

 

[Matt1970]

Well it's good you take your own stances on issues and not just crack open your party handbook to see where you should stand but ya, you are a liberal.

 

[yllus]

I tend to think of your stances as "classic liberal" - that is for wide-ranging social freedoms, but with a belief that government has a useful, every day place in the lives of citizens.

 

[monovillage]

In the political spectrum you'd be fairly called "left of center" in my book. You wouldn't be classified as a "liberal" since you're intelligent enough to make your own calls on some issues.
By definition liberals are too stupid not to piss into the wind.

 

[thraashman]

In the political spectrum you'd be fairly called "left of center" in my book. You wouldn't be classified as a "liberal" since you're intelligent enough to make your own calls on some issues.
By definition liberals are too stupid not to piss into the wind.

Considering your general posting history there is a great irony in you calling someone else stupid.

 

[jackstar7]

Well it's good you take your own stances on issues and not just crack open your party handbook to see where you should stand but ya, you are a liberal.

Can you elaborate how you arrive at your opinion?

 

[HumblePie]

You are a bit more left than me with your views on colleges, and UHC. Hence check out my signature.

 

[monovillage]

Considering your general posting history there is a great irony in you calling someone else stupid.

Let me show you what I mean. A left of center person, even a far left of center person will look at Obama's miserable record of "transparency" and be disgusted with his lack of action.

An ATP&N liberal will look at Obama's record and say "nu-uh he said it was going to be the most transparent administration evah! and it is, it is, it is!!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...d9f-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html?hpid=z7

Being left of center or far left of center just means you can be honest about some of the failings of the Democrats, liberals just can't face the truth.

 

[HumblePie]

Also, to further elaborate, I'm not anti big business AT ALL. I know some products would never be available without some form of big business behind it.

For example, the CPU in your computer. That is not an item that a small start company would be able to do. However, I have a problem with big businesses preventing ANY form of competition from trying to happen. Monopolies are bad, but getting upset at a business just because it is "big" is stupid in my opinion. Being upset at them for anti business practices is different though.

 

[soulcougher73]

Let me show you what I mean. A left of center person, even a far left of center person will look at Obama's miserable record of "transparency" and be disgusted with his lack of action.

An ATP&N liberal will look at Obama's record and say "nu-uh he said it was going to be the most transparent administration evah! and it is, it is, it is!!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...d9f-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html?hpid=z7

Being left of center or far left of center just means you can be honest about some of the failings of the Democrats, liberals just can't face the truth.

I think Obama has failed as far as transparency goes. Although he technically could be "the most transparent adminstration evah" as long as he is transparent on one more item any other admin had

But overall yeah he failed on that part.

 

[soulcougher73]

Also, to further elaborate, I'm not anti big business AT ALL. I know some products would never be available without some form of big business behind it.

For example, the CPU in your computer. That is not an item that a small start company would be able to do. However, I have a problem with big businesses preventing ANY form of competition from trying to happen. Monopolies are bad, but getting upset at a business just because it is "big" is stupid in my opinion. Being upset at them for anti business practices is different though.

I agree. Its what they do or dont do, not just the fact that they are big in and of itself.

 

[monovillage]

I think Obama has failed as far as transparency goes. Although he technically could be "the most transparent adminstration evah" as long as he is transparent on one more item any other admin had

But overall yeah he failed on that part.

My salute to you. I'm considered far right wing, but i'm pro-gay marriage, pro-marijuana, pro-fair trade not free trade, easy and clear path to immigration and pro-abortion.

 

[HumblePie]

My salute to you. I'm considered far right wing, but i'm pro-gay marriage, pro-marijuana, pro-fair trade not free trade, easy and clear path to immigration and pro-abortion.

Want to know my opinion? I think two issues REALLY decide if you are "right wing" and true Republican or not.

Religious Christian Zealot?
Think Fox news is a completely unbiased and truthworthy news source for everything?

If you answer yes to those two issues then you are fellow full fledged right wing Republican. If not, you are a commie scum socialist bastard bent on bring down everything that is right with America.

Or it seems that way to me from many expressions given by others that I've seen here and elsewhere.

 

[dank69]

I honestly can't remember ever seeing a post in here claiming Obama's admin is the most transparent ever.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Since I seem to get called a liberal every so often on here even though I don’t personally consider myself one, id like P&N to try and label me as best they can. The closest big party to my views is probably Libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) but even that I don’t consider myself 100% in bed with the parties views. Here are my Pro/Anti views on a lot of the major political topics. Feel free to pigeon hole as best you can. Mostly I’m a live and let live kind of person. I try not to tell others what to do unless they are harming or exploiting or infringing on others rights.

The last time I voted was for 2008 for Bob Barr only because I hate Dem and GOP more. But I don’t vote anymore (EC) as I’m sure most already know.

PRO:
Pro-Choice
Legal Immigration
Same sex marriage at a federal level with all benefit/negatives that come with it.
Gun ownership
Death penalty (in fact use it more). I’d personally be fine with public hangings.
Vigilante justice doesn’t bother me (not saying it’s right or wrong, just doesn’t bother me)
MJ legalization
Regulations on businesses, finance etc.
VERY pro separation of church and state
UHC (single payer)
Safety nets in general (welfare needs a major overhaul, no living off it for life crap, bare minimum food to survive) basically just enough that you’ll want to work to get off it.
Tax payer funded college/trade school
Strong middle class
Unions in theory (I understand that some get greedy and too powerful, then I’m against them)

ANTI:
illegal immigration
War on Drugs
Greed (stock market, profits at all costs)
World Police, Military Industrial Complex
Outsourcing, global economy (I’m fine with trading with other countries, just not exploiting them for cheap labor)
Electoral College

I’m sure there are more, and feel free to throw a topic at me and ill give me stance on it.

Let me have it

Awww gee cutie - apparently you had some self reflection after I spelled it out for you in that other thread. How cute, now you had to confirm it

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

My salute to you. I'm considered far right wing, but i'm pro-gay marriage, pro-marijuana, pro-fair trade not free trade, easy and clear path to immigration and pro-abortion.

Thats called realizing the economy is more important than bullshit social issues that only women, gays, and retards (Bible thumpers, etc) truly care about

 

[Bowfinger]

I honestly can't remember ever seeing a post in here claiming Obama's admin is the most transparent ever.

That's the advantage of being a mindless hack, not being constrained by reality. When he wants to attack, he just builds a straw man and starts flailing away. It's so much easier than engaging in honest, accurate discussion.

 

[monovillage]

I honestly can't remember ever seeing a post in here claiming Obama's admin is the most transparent ever.

It was discussed at length in the Fast N Furious thread. It's also been mentioned in numerous other threads including the various Benghazi threads.
Bowfinger is just proving himself a liar, as usual.

 

[dank69]

Every time I've seen it brought up, it's been by a conservative making a case on how Obama is a liar. Never seen a liberal defend that particular claim though.

 

[monovillage]

Every time I've seen it brought up, it's been by a conservative making a case on how Obama is a liar. Never seen a liberal defend that particular claim though.

and your opinion is?

 

[Howard]

and your opinion is?

As an aside, where do you feel I am on your scale?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

A lot of the things on your list aren't actual political positions, and many of the others are too general to give much feedback

PRO:
Pro-Choice - Liberal
Legal Immigration - Most people support this and it's not really a Left / Right issue
Same sex marriage at a federal level with all benefit/negatives that come with it. - Liberal but the Feds don't really have direct control of marriage
Gun ownership - Do you mean gun rights or do you want the government to force everyone to own a gun? If it's the former its Conservative
Death penalty (in fact use it more). I’d personally be fine with public hangings. - Conservative
Vigilante justice doesn’t bother me (not saying it’s right or wrong, just doesn’t bother me) - Neither Liberal or Conservative
MJ legalization - Arguably Liberal but not really
Regulations on businesses, finance etc. - Arguably Liberal but too vague to be helpful
VERY pro separation of church and state - Everyone believes in separation of church and state. Liberals just define it in broader terms.
UHC (single payer) - Liberal
Safety nets in general (welfare needs a major overhaul, no living off it for life crap, bare minimum food to survive) basically just enough that you’ll want to work to get off it. - Too vague
Tax payer funded college/trade school - Liberal
Strong middle class - This isn't a political position. What policies should we implement to achieve this? Do you want a flat tax or a highly progressive tax?
Unions in theory (I understand that some get greedy and too powerful, then I’m against them) - Too vague

ANTI:
illegal immigration - Conservative
War on Drugs - Arguably Liberal but not really
Greed (stock market, profits at all costs) - Not a political position
World Police, Military Industrial Complex - Too vague
Outsourcing, global economy (I’m fine with trading with other countries, just not exploiting them for cheap labor) - Too vague. What do you want the government to do about it?
Electoral College - closer to Liberal

 

[Anarchist420]

Some people can considered both. Historically, "Conservative" meant nationalist (including for what would be called "fair trade" today) while "liberal" meant social democrat.

Lincoln, Clay, and Hamilton were Conservatives, while Jefferson and Tyler (and Bastiat and Gladstone) were "Liberal". I'm a liberal in the Jefferson and Tyler tradition and I'm not a neoconservative nor a traditional conservative so I guess I'm closer to a Liberal... I like Original thought, I'm not a nationalist, and I realize that not even a monarchy can provide long term Order and that monarchy would not be desirable over confederalism anyway. At the same time, I'm an anarcho-confederalist, so I'm not really a liberal... I don't believe in centralized collective representation like Jefferson did.

However, the first 100% modernly liberal President, Wilson, has neoconservatives among his philosophical heirs which means the labels don't really mean anything. OTOH, the labels do still kind of apply because the Republican Party is just like it was when Lincoln was President no matter how much their demographic base changed. It should also be noted that the Conservative Party of the U.K. has always been parallel to the Republican Party of the U.S.

 

[soulcougher73]

Awww gee cutie - apparently you had some self reflection after I spelled it out for you in that other thread. How cute, now you had to confirm it

Still dont consider myself a liberal in the sense you and others like you are referring to. I bet a take a hard right stance on a lot of issues you'd have trouble comprehending.

Fucking noobs.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Still dont consider myself a liberal in the sense you and others like you are referring to. I bet a take a hard right stance on a lot of issues you'd have trouble comprehending.

Fucking noobs.

Welcome to P&N.