Am I running too hot?

[RedDog75]

I've been messing around with my computer case (cable placement, etc), but I can't seem to get my idle CPU temp to go lower than 52C. Currently my system temp shows 35C - I would hope this could be down to room temp. My third temp (PWM???) stays around 40C. I have two front intake fans (80mm) and one exhaust fan (80mm) as well as my PSU with a vent both towards CD-ROMS as well as directly above the CPU. I 'm running stock HSF for my Intel P4 2.6Ghz. I'm not sure what else I can do to the case to create a better airflow. I've experimented with covering up extra holes in the interior of the case as well as covering up holes in the rear expansion bays. I feel like the more I do with it, the higher the temp gets. I finally gave up and removed all tape covering the holes. Still the same temp!!! I'm really frustrated here and am wondering if I should even worry about it... I'm concerned that the temps seem to keep rising every single day (no, I don't run the computer 24/7). I want to get this temp down!! Any suggestions?????

 

[fredtam]

First put another exhaust fan in if possible. Your system temps indicate you are not getting the hot air out. Secondly I would reseat the heatsink. Remove it and clean the thermal compound completely off the heatsink and the chip. Apply AS3 and replace the chip and the heatsink in the proper orientation. Tidy up the cables and see what happens.

 

[RedDog75]

Ok... well, I think I'm going to get one of those "system blowers" that fit in one of the back expansion bays - I really don't have a choice anyway, since my case doesn't have an extra spot for a regular case fan. I anticipated part of your response, so I went ahead and cleaned off the CPU and heatsink, put on a new layer of thermal grease and reseated. I'm not sure what you mean however by "replacing the heatsink in the proper orientation" ??? Looks the same to me both ways...

Secondly: Is there any truth to helping airflow if I cover up extra holes in the case? I of course am not talking about the main entry at the front of my case where it appears that most of the cooler air can come from.

Any thoughts?

 

[fredtam]

Didn't look what heatsink you had. On some it matters. I don't seal up the holes on mine and my temps are fine. What case are you using.
Also what fans are you using? Is there a lot of dust?

 

[RedDog75]

This is a brand new setup - no dust at all. Don't laugh, but I got a real good deal on a case from Microcenter on a PCMCIS case (generic white box). I double checked specs and talked to the guys at Microcenter. They said at least three of the guys there owned this case and loved it. I didn't ask what they had in it, but made the assumption it was P4s because that is what the case is advertised for. I am also using stock fans (one is an old OEM fan from a Sony VAIO desktop) - the other two intake fans are SUNON stock fans from Microcenter (said to pump out 32cfms). I noticed however that I'm not getting much air coming from the front fans when I have the case open - this may not be surprising, 'cause I understand if the case is open, there is not enough interior pressure to support the air flow. Maybe this is wrong, and I should be getting a nice cool breeze from these fans? If I had to, I could make some mods to the case to open it up a little... The funny thing is that when I have the case open, I get no temp changes at all... hmmmm. What do you think?

 

[fredtam]

I checked out the cases at microcenter and all of them seem to have very little venting to allow for air to be drawn in. I would hope the exhaust is better but can't tell. This is more likely why you feel very little air but yes it will decrease when you open the case. As far as Microcenter employees I don't know where you are at but the ones in Mariette,GA are not very knowledgeable and will flat out make sh!t up to make themselves look like they are. If reseating the heatsink does not help I would definately look into another case (newegg). Also would change the fans. I assume by "good deal" you meant the $30 one. You aren't using the PSU that came with it are you. Your temps are not out of this world and are not going to cause your system to fail but my next upgrade will be a case/psu. You don't byuy all your parts at MC do you?

 

[RedDog75]

Yes, I got the $30 one. But no, I'm not using the PSU that came with it. That piece of junk is sitting in my closet. I was more interested in the case than the power supply, but the PSU was an added bonus as a backup just in case my High Power PSU fails - which I doubt (but you never know). As far as MC goes, here in Minnesota, the MC staff is OK. I generally can answer most questions they can, but I didn't feel at all that I was screwed. The guy I was talking to was more elderly and didn't seem like he "knew it all" - he wasn't afraid to tell me that he didn't know something. I don't buy all my stuff from MC either. In fact I got my Mobo, HDD, CPU and RAM from Newegg. They rock! Since I don't have the money right now to purchase a new case, and worse case scenario is that I'll have to purchase one anyway - do you have any mod suggestions I can make on this case? I'm already going to cut out the metal mesh that blocks some of the air from the front vents. Would it be wise to dremel some vent holes in the back? Or maybe I could fit a small (<60mm) fan under the rear exhaust. As far as changing fans, what do you suggest for a modest budget?

Oh, by the way - you have been a VERY big help so far... just thought I'd let you know...

 

[fredtam]

I would see if the temps are still high after reseating the heatsink. Is there a filter or anything blocking the intakes? If there is enough room a 60mm exhaust would not hurt. What about the addition of a side panel fan. I personally use coolermaster and antec fans but that can cost a little. If the exhaust is the old one off of your sony I would suggest just replacing it first. Maybe something with a higher cfm than the intakes because you only have one exhaust. Iwould try that before cutting into the case.

 

[Henny]

Can you use either a 92 or even 120 mm rear case fan? (even if you have to modify your case)

I'd also get rid of your stock HSF and throw on a Zalman 7000.

With the Zalman, my OC'd P4 idles at 36 and max's out at 45 during burn in. (with stock HSF it would idle at 39 and get as high as 55 during burn in).

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: Henny
Can you use either a 92 or even 120 mm rear case fan? (even if you have to modify your case)

I'd also get rid of your stock HSF and throw on a Zalman 7000.

With the Zalman, my OC'd P4 idles at 36 and max's out at 45 during burn in. (with stock HSF it would idle at 39 and get as high as 55 during burn in).

He does not seem to have a problem with the efficiency of his heatsink fan. The heat is getting into the case air fine it is just not getting out of the case. A zalman would not help much. It would only transfer more heat to the case air which would in turn cause cpu temps to rise. Once he has good airflow then he should consider pumping more heat into the case. My temps are the same as yours with stock cooling and your temps were not bad before your zalman.

 

[RedDog75]

Ok... a few things have happened since my last post. First of all, I re-enabled HT in my BIOS. I have read in various posts that it actually could deteriorate performance under Win2K... well, I don't see any deterioration. In fact for what I use my computer for, I actually see a slight INCREASE in performance, especially in multi-tasking. Enabling HT dropped my temps by at least 10 degrees! I am idling now around 42 or 43C and load around 55C. Not bad so far, I think. I also went ahead and modified my case so that I would get better flow of air from my front intakes. Dropped the temp only about a degree, but totally made the case a heck of a lot more quieter! That air resistance was really pushing it in the front. I get a reverse flow from my back exhaust - I think I'm getting too much resistance from the metal mesh. I'm cutting that one out next. this should hopefully solve the majority of my problems, but I expect that I will still only hang around 40C idle. I guess I can live with that for right now. Thanks for your help... please feel free to offer more suggestions if you have them. Thanks again! You've all been great!

 

[Henny]

If his CPU is always >52, yet his system is at 35 than he most definately has a CPU HSF issue.

It seems like he needs to increase heat transfer from the CPU to the case. His case seems to be able to dissipate heat effectively if it stays at 35.

I still believe in large, low RPM case fans.

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: Henny
Can you use either a 92 or even 120 mm rear case fan? (even if you have to modify your case)

I'd also get rid of your stock HSF and throw on a Zalman 7000.

With the Zalman, my OC'd P4 idles at 36 and max's out at 45 during burn in. (with stock HSF it would idle at 39 and get as high as 55 during burn in).

He does not seem to have a problem with the efficiency of his heatsink fan. The heat is getting into the case air fine it is just not getting out of the case. A zalman would not help much. It would only transfer more heat to the case air which would in turn cause cpu temps to rise. Once he has good airflow then he should consider pumping more heat into the case. My temps are the same as yours with stock cooling and your temps were not bad before your zalman.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: Henny
If his CPU is always >52, yet his system is at 35 than he most definately has a CPU HSF issue.

It seems like he needs to increase heat transfer from the CPU to the case. His case seems to be able to dissipate heat effectively if it stays at 35.

I still believe in large, low RPM case fans.

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: Henny
Can you use either a 92 or even 120 mm rear case fan? (even if you have to modify your case)

I'd also get rid of your stock HSF and throw on a Zalman 7000.

With the Zalman, my OC'd P4 idles at 36 and max's out at 45 during burn in. (with stock HSF it would idle at 39 and get as high as 55 during burn in).

He does not seem to have a problem with the efficiency of his heatsink fan. The heat is getting into the case air fine it is just not getting out of the case. A zalman would not help much. It would only transfer more heat to the case air which would in turn cause cpu temps to rise. Once he has good airflow then he should consider pumping more heat into the case. My temps are the same as yours with stock cooling and your temps were not bad before your zalman.

You do realize that 35c=95f. Assuming that he is not drawing in ambient air at 95f it is a case ventilation issue. As the case temp and heatsink temp get closer to equilibriam it becomes harder for the case air to absorb more heat (HVAC 101). However if the case temp is lowerd by bringing cooler air in and removing the hot air the heat from the heatsink will be removed at a higher rate thereby lowering the cpu temp. The stock heatsink fan is very efficient. I put them in many PCs and have never had temps that high. The only differences between my PCs and his are the amount of airflow within the cases.

 

[EeyoreX]

Unless I missed it somehow, I didn't see anyone address this:

I'm really frustrated here and am wondering if I should even worry about it

Personally, if your PC is stable and there are no crashin issues, then I wouldn't worry about it. Now, if you want to lower the temps, that is different, and I can understand that, but I just wanted to mention that, unless your system suffers stability problems, you reallyt have nothing to worry about.

\Dan

 

[RedDog75]

EeyoreX... you are absolutely correct. Thank you VERY much for making me feel better about this. My computer is running smoothly with no problems. But just to be absolutely sure (especially since I'm eventually going to try overclocking), I went ahead and purchased two new fans for case. I purchased the Thermaltake A1214 - mostly because it had temp sensor and adjusted according to my case temp - spent about $11 for it. I also bought a system blower that is rated 36cfm max. I seem to be really pulling some good air volumes out of the case, and it does appear to be slightly warmer than the outside air (obviously). I also raised my case from the desk a little by superglue-ing some felt spacers on the bottoms of the case pegs - this will hopefully help bring in more cooler air from the bottom intake area. Just in case, I re-sat my CPU/HS (for the sixth time!) and made a nice thin layer of thermal paste (probably the thinnest I've done so far). All in all, I seem to only be bringing my CPU temp down to 41-42C with PWM temp at 34C and System Temp at 32C (my hard drive is getting great cool air from my intake fans by the way - its down to 24C!). So all in all, I think that I've modified my case and added as many fans as I can - my case/HS/HSF/Case Fans are running as efficient as they can be with my current ambient temperature (which unfortunately I can't get an accurate reading, but close to room temp). Unless I'm missing something else here, sounds like with your help, I've been able to get this temp as stable as I can. Thank you very much for your help - all of you - I've gotta say it... you folks posting here on Anandtech ROCK!

 

[Henny]

I guess we can disagree because I don't consider a 35 degrees case temp a problem. That's only 10 degrees or so above ambient yet the case is also removing the heat from memory, peripherals, addin cards, MB, etc.

If it were my system I'd gladly give it some more CPU heat to dissipate to get that CPU down in the 40's at idle. If the case rises a couple degrees than let it.

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: Henny
If his CPU is always >52, yet his system is at 35 than he most definately has a CPU HSF issue.

It seems like he needs to increase heat transfer from the CPU to the case. His case seems to be able to dissipate heat effectively if it stays at 35.

I still believe in large, low RPM case fans.

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: Henny
Can you use either a 92 or even 120 mm rear case fan? (even if you have to modify your case)

I'd also get rid of your stock HSF and throw on a Zalman 7000.

With the Zalman, my OC'd P4 idles at 36 and max's out at 45 during burn in. (with stock HSF it would idle at 39 and get as high as 55 during burn in).

He does not seem to have a problem with the efficiency of his heatsink fan. The heat is getting into the case air fine it is just not getting out of the case. A zalman would not help much. It would only transfer more heat to the case air which would in turn cause cpu temps to rise. Once he has good airflow then he should consider pumping more heat into the case. My temps are the same as yours with stock cooling and your temps were not bad before your zalman.

You do realize that 35c=95f. Assuming that he is not drawing in ambient air at 95f it is a case ventilation issue. As the case temp and heatsink temp get closer to equilibriam it becomes harder for the case air to absorb more heat (HVAC 101). However if the case temp is lowerd by bringing cooler air in and removing the hot air the heat from the heatsink will be removed at a higher rate thereby lowering the cpu temp. The stock heatsink fan is very efficient. I put them in many PCs and have never had temps that high. The only differences between my PCs and his are the amount of airflow within the cases.

 

[RedDog75]

Originally posted by: Henny
I guess we can disagree because I don't consider a 35 degrees case temp a problem. That's only 10 degrees or so above ambient yet the case is also removing the heat from memory, peripherals, addin cards, MB, etc.

OK... I'm missing something here... my system temp is actually 32 degrees Celsius, and even now after I take the case side off, the temp does not change more than one degree cooler MAXIMUM.

I'd like to address the second part of your statement though:

I'd gladly give it some more CPU heat to dissipate to get that CPU down in the 40's at idle

Since I am actually running my CPU now at 41-43 degrees Celsius during idle, does that mean that you consider my system to be pretty decently cooled??? That would really feel good to hear that - wow!

 

[fredtam]

If it makes you feel better as long as your case temps are are under 40c and your cpu temp is below is below 70c you are within Intel's thermal specs.

 

[Henny]

If your CPU is now at 41-43 degrees than you're in great shape from a heat standpoint, especially if you accomplished that while maintaining a system that's fairly quiet.

It's pretty tough to get both cool and quiet while overclocking. (it's all a compromise unless you go all out and spend major bucks for water cooling).

Originally posted by: RedDog75

Originally posted by: Henny
I guess we can disagree because I don't consider a 35 degrees case temp a problem. That's only 10 degrees or so above ambient yet the case is also removing the heat from memory, peripherals, addin cards, MB, etc.

OK... I'm missing something here... my system temp is actually 32 degrees Celsius, and even now after I take the case side off, the temp does not change more than one degree cooler MAXIMUM.

I'd like to address the second part of your statement though:

I'd gladly give it some more CPU heat to dissipate to get that CPU down in the 40's at idle

Since I am actually running my CPU now at 41-43 degrees Celsius during idle, does that mean that you consider my system to be pretty decently cooled??? That would really feel good to hear that - wow!