Am I reading this right? 2500 vs newer CPUs

[wingman04]

An oc'd 2500k is an awesome animal!

I have a i5 2500k and a i5 6600k 3200MHz memory, I can't tell the difference in my experience on speed or responsiveness. With the GTX 970 used in both that I have, the FPS in all games are the same.

 

[JujuFish]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, as humiliated as I am by the experience.

Haha, no worries. We've all been there.

ANOTHER THOUGHT: I think this is "going to be the year" for me to catch up.

Ditto. I've got most of the parts to a 6700k build sitting in my living room. Just waiting for the video card and SSD to arrive. Going to be a nice upgrade from the i7-920 I'm currently running.

 

[Headfoot]

I have a i5 2500k and a i5 6600k 3200MHz memory, I can't tell the difference in my experience on speed or responsiveness. With the GTX 970 used in both that I have, the FPS in all games are the same.

Probably capped at 60.

I switched from a 2500k @ 4.5ghz to a 5820k @ 4.44ghz w/ ddr4 3200 ram and the difference was dramatic and immediate.

 

[Loser Gamer]

I have a i5 2500k and a i5 6600k 3200MHz memory, I can't tell the difference in my experience on speed or responsiveness. With the GTX 970 used in both that I have, the FPS in all games are the same.

I've seen some test where old CPU's do just as good as new ones. Mainly it's in games that are GPU dependent and not CPU.

 

[CHADBOGA]

As I've stated multiple times before, I'm gonna get 10 years out of my i5 3570K @ 4.0Ghz, as I believe it will last that long before any game I'm interested in won't run on it.

 

[sm625]

I believe the scaling goes (roughly) something like this:

Stock i5-2500k 100%
i5-2500k @ 4.5GHz 120%
i5-6600K @ 4.3GHz + DDR3-1600 = 140%
i5-6600K @ 4.3GHz + DDR4-3200 = 150%

Because many skylake systems are using a new class of very fast RAM, we are finally beginning to see them start to really pull away from the previous generations.

 

[wingman04]

Intel Skylake Core i7-6700K IPC & Overclocking Review
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...76700k_ipc_overclocking_review/6#.V311YI-cGUl

 

[poofyhairguy]

The 2600k aged even better than the 2500k.

Then you add in Directx 12 reducing CPU demands and it feels like we will never have to upgrade.

 

[wingman04]

The 2600k aged even better than the 2500k.

Then you add in Directx 12 reducing CPU demands and it feels like we will never have to upgrade.

i5 2500k-i7 2600k How true()

 

[RussianSensation]

Intel Skylake Core i7-6700K IPC & Overclocking Review
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...76700k_ipc_overclocking_review/6#.V311YI-cGUl

Did you actually see the most bottom graph when Skylake i7 6700K is paired with DDR4 3600 memory? It crushes everything. Skylake is bottlenecked when paired with DDR4 2133-2400 memory.

Even an i7 4790K @ 4.9Ghz loses by 10% or so against a 4.6Ghz 6700K when paired with a higher end GPU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5lfMogcrPU

This review also shows that 6700K cannot show its true potential when paired with slow DDR4 - in this case DDR4 2400:
http://www.purepc.pl/pamieci_ram/te...pamieci_ram_wybrac_do_intel_skylake?page=0,11

To get a true representation of 6700K 4.5-4.8Ghz, it has to be paired with DDR4 3000 or better yet 3466-4000 memory.

Even 6-8 core CPUs cannot beat 6700K:
Core i7 6700K vs 5820K vs 5960X CPU Face-Off: Which Is Best For Gaming?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocwwaVGUFtk

This video also shows in CPU demanding games/situation, 2600K 4.4Ghz gets smoked by a 6700K 4.4Ghz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sx1kLGVAF0

I wouldn't advise anyone with an i5 2500K/2600K and GTX970/R9 390X to spend $500-600 on a new platform upgrade but anyone buying a GTX1070/980Ti/1080 definitely will get a nice boost in performance from a new Skylake build.

We didn't even get to the most CPU demanding genre for CPUs - strategy games.

For a GTX1070/1080/Fury X user, all that extra performance will be 'wasted' with a 4500mhz i5 2500K.

I am inclined to believe 4-5 professional reviews that all show that i5 2500K 4500mhz is now severely bottlenecking high-end cards of GTX1070/980Ti level. It's only going to get worse as next gen games start to take better advantage of modern architectures over time and at the same time GPUs will get even faster in 2017-2018.

Finally, some gamers actually do use 100-165Hz monitors. For them, 2500K is again a bottleneck.

The counter point to it is that many people play non-CPU demanding games such as Overwatch or more or less the entire list of Steam's most popular games. Of course there is no point of upgrading a 2500K for those types of games.

 

[wingman04]

At the bottom graph the i7 6700k is running 4.8GHz not 4.5GHz like sandybridge.

DDR 4 was not much of a speed improvement over DDR3.

Our Skylake does not look too good here compared to our Haswell (1% increase). 9% faster than Ivy Bridge. 13% faster than Sandy Bridge. When we take our Skylake up to its stock 2133MHz speed we see an increase of 5% over Haswell, 13% over Ivy Bridge, and 17% over Sandy Bridge. 2666MHz memory gives us a 10% increase over Haswell. http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...76700k_ipc_overclocking_review/5#.V38RhugrKUk

They did the benchtests with 3600MHz memory comparing to sandybridge.

17% to 25% improvement over sandybridge s is not to bad considering the megahertz race was and is over, they are just dealing with tweaks of efficiency like AVX2.

I remember when my 700MHz pentiumIII was great.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Probably capped at 60.

I switched from a 2500k @ 4.5ghz to a 5820k @ 4.44ghz w/ ddr4 3200 ram and the difference was dramatic and immediate.

Not exactly a fair comparison. 2 more cores + HT

 

[The Sauce]

There was a recent detailed comparison using an overclocked 2500k (4.6 GHz) with good (i.e. DDR3-2400) RAM and there was at most 5 FPS (5-8%) increase in gaming tests over a 6700K at decent resolutions. This chip is still not bottlenecking the graphics system 5 years later. No compelling reason to upgrade unless you are doing graphics, video editing and such.

 

[frozentundra123456]

There was a recent detailed comparison using an overclocked 2500k (4.6 GHz) with good (i.e. DDR3-2400) RAM and there was at most 5 FPS (5-8%) increase in gaming tests over a 6700K at decent resolutions. This chip is still not bottlenecking the graphics system 5 years later. No compelling reason to upgrade unless you are doing graphics, video editing and such.

Got a source for that? I would be interested in seeing the details.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Did you actually see the most bottom graph when Skylake i7 6700K is paired with DDR4 3600 memory? It crushes everything. Skylake is bottlenecked when paired with DDR4 2133-2400 memory.

Even an i7 4790K @ 4.9Ghz loses by 10% or so against a 4.6Ghz 6700K when paired with a higher end GPU:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5lfMogcrPU

This review also shows that 6700K cannot show its true potential when paired with slow DDR4 - in this case DDR4 2400:
http://www.purepc.pl/pamieci_ram/te...pamieci_ram_wybrac_do_intel_skylake?page=0,11

To get a true representation of 6700K 4.5-4.8Ghz, it has to be paired with DDR4 3000 or better yet 3466-4000 memory.

Even 6-8 core CPUs cannot beat 6700K:
Core i7 6700K vs 5820K vs 5960X CPU Face-Off: Which Is Best For Gaming?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocwwaVGUFtk

This video also shows in CPU demanding games/situation, 2600K 4.4Ghz gets smoked by a 6700K 4.4Ghz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sx1kLGVAF0

I wouldn't advise anyone with an i5 2500K/2600K and GTX970/R9 390X to spend $500-600 on a new platform upgrade but anyone buying a GTX1070/980Ti/1080 definitely will get a nice boost in performance from a new Skylake build.

We didn't even get to the most CPU demanding genre for CPUs - strategy games.

For a GTX1070/1080/Fury X user, all that extra performance will be 'wasted' with a 4500mhz i5 2500K.

I am inclined to believe 4-5 professional reviews that all show that i5 2500K 4500mhz is now severely bottlenecking high-end cards of GTX1070/980Ti level. It's only going to get worse as next gen games start to take better advantage of modern architectures over time and at the same time GPUs will get even faster in 2017-2018.

Finally, some gamers actually do use 100-165Hz monitors. For them, 2500K is again a bottleneck.

The counter point to it is that many people play non-CPU demanding games such as Overwatch or more or less the entire list of Steam's most popular games. Of course there is no point of upgrading a 2500K for those types of games.

Glad you gave links to strategy game FPS, I feel like they are left out of the debate on a regular basis. I just upgraded from a 2500k to a skylake with a GTX 970. In my case I would say it was totally worth it. The games I mostly play are 100 percent CPU bound (Eu4, HOi4, Stellaris, SC2 etc) so in my case going for the extra CPU performance was more than worth it over a GPU upgrade.

The other consideration I always have is if my GPU doesnt cut the mustard I can always reduce graphics settings...with a insufficient CPU it is not always that easy,

 

[MrGuru]

Drats, this is making me again rethink upgrading my 2600k to a 6700k. I have 2x 980Ti's with a 1600p monitor and honestly mostly play games that lean towards being more CPU reliant (WoW mainly).

 

[ehume]

Drats, this is making me again rethink upgrading my 2600k to a 6700k. I have 2x 980Ti's with a 1600p monitor and honestly mostly play games that lean towards being more CPU reliant (WoW mainly).

Why not wait until the Skylake refresh, Kaby Lake? When is it due, anyway?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Why not wait until the Skylake refresh, Kaby Lake? When is it due, anyway?

End of the year I think?

Very little to wait for though. A bit higher base and turbo clocks (irrelevant if you overclock) and a better igp with some new decoding features, if those are important to the user.

 

[ehume]

Very little to wait for though. A bit higher base and turbo clocks (irrelevant if you overclock) and a better igp with some new decoding features, if those are important to the user.

Judging by Devil's Canyon, which was also a refresh, it will be significantly improved silicon as well. I have a 4770k and a 4790k. The latter is definitely better.

 

[wingman04]

Judging by Devil's Canyon, which was also a refresh, it will be significantly improved silicon as well. I have a 4770k and a 4790k. The latter is definitely better.

What is better to you with the 4790k? The benchmarks are so close. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1263?vs=836

 

[BonzaiDuck]

To tell the truth, and as part of my 12-step program for hardware addiction, the only reason I want to build a Skylake later this year is my curiosity. I try to hold this back as much as possible, and mind all my wallets carefully.

But sometimes, you just have to take another step forward . . .

With spare parts, I've taken two + months to build a replacement for my nForce WHS-2011 server. I haven't even installed 2012 Essentials yet, but that's coming soon.

This allows me a way to harness my exuberance.

But it all boils down to an enthusiast's trade-off between his limits of perception, computing habits and needs, and the outlays.

And that's what I think this is "coming to:" Limits of Perception as well as Application. The way I'm using 2nd and 3rd gen processors, I imagine there is more I can do with them.

And I need to start my store-front on Ebay, however it's done. Life is a struggle.

 

[ehume]

What is better to you with the 4790k? The benchmarks are so close. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1263?vs=836

Well, they are essentially the same chip, after all. But the 4770k runs into heat capacity problems sooner. You know, even if the chip did not itself have a skyrocketing temp with increased clocks, the heat being generated cannot escape because of the gap between the CPU and its IHS -- and its mediocre TIM.

The DC has a year on the Haswell, so the process improvements alone mean you are more likely to win the silicon lottery. An aside: I am seeing a 100MHz difference in overclocking between my old 4790k that came a month after the DC was available and another DC I got a year later. I put that down to process maturity, though it is possible the process variance (silicon lottery) explains the difference./aside

The DC comes with a different TIM, a "polymer TIM," whatever that is. You get the impression that the gap has been whittled down, though I can't prove it. In any case, the heat barrier occurs at a hotter temp, which indicates the chip can produce more heat before the capacity of the TIM/IHS is reached.

But as you noted, their benchmarks are close. But still, if I had it to do over again I would do the same and go with the newer chip, the refreshed one. In fact, about 6 months after Kaby Lake is released (giving Intel time to mature the process) I intend to replace my daughter's i7 875k with a Kaby Lake i7.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, they are essentially the same chip, after all. But the 4770k runs into heat capacity problems sooner. You know, even if the chip did not itself have a skyrocketing temp with increased clocks, the heat being generated cannot escape because of the gap between the CPU and its IHS -- and its mediocre TIM.

The DC has a year on the Haswell, so the process improvements alone mean you are more likely to win the silicon lottery. An aside: I am seeing a 100MHz difference in overclocking between my old 4790k that came a month after the DC was available and another DC I got a year later. I put that down to process maturity, though it is possible the process variance (silicon lottery) explains the difference./aside

The DC comes with a different TIM, a "polymer TIM," whatever that is. You get the impression that the gap has been whittled down, though I can't prove it. In any case, the heat barrier occurs at a hotter temp, which indicates the chip can produce more heat before the capacity of the TIM/IHS is reached.

But as you noted, their benchmarks are close. But still, if I had it to do over again I would do the same and go with the newer chip, the refreshed one. In fact, about 6 months after Kaby Lake is released (giving Intel time to mature the process) I intend to replace my daughter's i7 875k with a Kaby Lake i7.

I'm still planning to obtain an "outsourced de-lidding" and get the chip from Silicon Lottery. Polymer or no polymer. And I'd rather have someone perform the operation who's probably done it a zillion times already, when it would be a "first" for me.

 

[The Sauce]

Got a source for that? I would be interested in seeing the details.

I think it was done by DigitalFoundry on Youtube. I cant find it right now, though.

 

[nerp]

One thing about Skylake is the power and efficiency improvements. Not always so evident on desktop but the difference between last gen and current gen laptops is amazing. My x260 gives me incredible battery life, is super snappy and never gets hot. Fan rarely runs unless I'm really burdening the machine.