Am I getting ripped off?

[bommy261]

The timing assembly broke on my car a Toyota Celica 2002 GT a few weeks back, and i figured while the repair shop has the car apart to replace the water pump as well. So far, the bill is around 1700$. Which is a little high imo.

Before the timing assembly broke, i noticed my car was using a fair amount of oil. About 500 miles/quart, this could be due to head gasket being shitty, but i did not notice any oil in the antifreeze, so i don't think its the gasket.

They called me today and they want to replace the head gasket and apparently a valve was bent as well. The claim that this valve is the reason its burning oil. I am no mechanic, but a valve could not be the reason its burning oil, as all the valves do is bring in gas/air and expel.

After everything, they want to charge me 3600$. Something smells fishy.

Honestly, i plan on selling this car fairly soon, if i could get away with a "bent" valve and a worn head gasket i will.. i don't have $3600 lying around to spend on fixing this car, this shop was recommended to me but i think i'm getting ripped off here.

Opinions?

*UPDATE*

I know this topic was started waayyyyy back in may, well today I finally got the car 100% again. Decided to buy a used 1zz-fe engine with about 20k miles (or so they say) on it from a reputable dealer on ebay. After dealing with some overheating issues (we had to elevate the coolant reservoir to get all the air pockets out) and an issue with the knock sensor not being torqued to the correct value (CEL came on), it is running 100% again. This engine appears to be much newer than 2002. We used the old ECU and the block had more sensors than we had input connections. Hopefully this one doesn't burn oil like the last engine did. While everything was apart, i replaced most of the seals, gaskets, exhaust donut, and clutch.

Learned sooooooo much about cars by doing this engine replacement. Took alot longer than I expected, but I got alot of riding time on my motorcycle, lol. I think i'll be doing all my auto repairs myself from now on. Soooooo glad to have my car back.

 

[exdeath]

Bent valve can cause oil burning as it will interfere with the valve seal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

But $3600 for all that is retarded considering the cost of a whole new engine isn't even half that.

 

[bruceb]

Might be cheaper to swap in a used motor. Yes, the bent valve could be causing the oil use. Probably bent when the timing belt went bad. You may also need valve guides checked and new valve stem seals or a full head job. Hence, cheaper to swap a used engine into it.

 

[bommy261]

it was a noninterference engine, so i don't think the valve was bent when the chain broke. unfortunately, they already did 1700$ worth of work to it. if they replaced the engine on top of that, it would be more than 3600$. I don't mind the car burning oil, i'll just keep adding as i see fit.

 

[herm0016]

the valve guide and seals will wear and will leak oil into the cylinder if the stem is bent

 

[mrblotto]

I'm not positive, but I dont think that engine is an interference engine. So the timing belt failure should not have caused a bent valve, right?

me = noob

Edit: oops.....that's what I get for taking 10 mins to look it up...lol

 

[bommy261]

you guys think it would be best to just cut my loses and just take the 1700$ bill versus the 3600$. hell, i can get a whole new engine for the next 2000$, and it'll be pretty easy to just swap out my shitty engine, but i don't have the money right now, i just need something that is drivable

 

[Pulsar]

Here's an idea. Have them fix what you already agreed to (enough to get it driveable again). Then, if you REALLY don't mind doing the work to swap the engine yourself. Drive it and add oil until the engine blows up. Then you get the most of the repair, and you can put the new engine in yourself.

Then part out the old engine - water pump, alternator, etc.

 

[bommy261]

Here's an idea. Have them fix what you already agreed to (enough to get it driveable again). Then, if you REALLY don't mind doing the work to swap the engine yourself. Drive it and add oil until the engine blows up. Then you get the most of the repair, and you can put the new engine in yourself.

Then part out the old engine - water pump, alternator, etc.

that is most likely what i'll do.. i can start saving for the engine itself as well as an engine hoist and some other stuff i'll need for the swap. i'm pretty sure they have complete guide to the removal and replacement of the engine in the service manual i got.

 

[T2urtle]

^ agreed. since you dont have the money. Tell them to finish up what we agreed on that $1700 for the belt and have a running car and be done with it for NOW.

since you thought about selling it and/or playing with the idea of swapping a motor into it, just wait it out and see how you feel. Most likely if you do swap the motor it would make a LOT of sense to drive it for another 2-3 years since your dropping $2k on the motor and maybe $1k on labor or swap yourself. pending on how handy you are...


How has this car been treating you in terms of MPG and repairs aside from this one? GF wants to upgrade/downgrade her 2003 lancer to a 04-05WRX but she wants an auto. I told her that combo is too hard to find, she doesn't like too many other cars but the celica GT was one of them...

 

[bommy261]

^ agreed. since you dont have the money. Tell them to finish up what we agreed on that $1700 for the belt and have a running car and be done with it for NOW.

since you thought about selling it and/or playing with the idea of swapping a motor into it, just wait it out and see how you feel. Most likely if you do swap the motor it would make a LOT of sense to drive it for another 2-3 years since your dropping $2k on the motor and maybe $1k on labor or swap yourself. pending on how handy you are...


How has this car been treating you in terms of MPG and repairs aside from this one? GF wants to upgrade/downgrade her 2003 lancer to a 04-05WRX but she wants an auto. I told her that combo is too hard to find, she doesn't like too many other cars but the celica GT was one of them...

mpg is pretty good, all around great car. as i understand the 1zz-fe engine has variable reliability from one year to the next. ie, for 2002, the engine has a tendency to burn more oil, i wish i would have known this before buying. only other thing i have had done to it was getting the CAT replaced last year to pass inspection. i'm still on the original clutch

i think she should learn howto drive stick, the automatic celica GT is pretty pathetic in terms of acceleration, manual 5sp is the way to go imo

i see no reason to not recommend this car, as long as she does the maintenance and does research its a great economy car. i am having these issues at 140k miles, so my car has been around the block a few times

 

[MaxFusion16]

$1700 for a timing belt? that's ridiculous, I don't even think the dealer charges that much. Average price for a timing belt is $500-700 depending on location, dealer is about $1200 i think.

post the name of the shop, so people'd know to avoid.

 

[bommy261]

$1700 for a timing belt? that's ridiculous, I don't even think the dealer charges that much. Average price for a timing belt is $500-700 depending on location, dealer is about $1200 i think.

post the name of the shop, so people'd know to avoid.

well, i had them install a new water pump as well since u gotta take it off to install the timing chain/tensioner etc. the place is in Reading PA, i'll PM ya with the name if u want.

i will never go back to them.. this is getting wayyyy to expensive way to fast. i'm a poor college kid, my funds are very limited

 

[T2urtle]

generally stragiht t belt job is about $800 at dealership. then you throw in new tensioner and water pump and etc and it gets to be about $1200.

most smaller shops charge about $500-600 for everything. maybe max out at $800 on normal 4 banger cars.

$1700 is extreme.



gf tried to drive one of my manual cars. she got the hang of it but prefer not to, she wanted me to find an auto WRX or celica. celica works for me cause its a hatch and higher MPG.

 

[MaxFusion16]

well, i had them install a new water pump as well since u gotta take it off to install the timing chain/tensioner etc. the place is in Reading PA, i'll PM ya with the name if u want.

i will never go back to them.. this is getting wayyyy to expensive way to fast. i'm a poor college kid, my funds are very limited

just so you know for future reference, the prices I'm quoting includes the water pump, which is almost always replaced with the timing belt. I'd go back and negotiate with the shop, threaten to file a BBB complaint if necessary, they are taking you for a ride and they know it.

 

[Gibson486]

just so you know for future reference, the prices I'm quoting includes the water pump, which is almost always replaced with the timing belt. I'd go back and negotiate with the shop, threaten to file a BBB complaint if necessary, they are taking you for a ride and they know it.

How can he file a complaint? He told them to do the work, they did it. It's his fault for not shopping around or verifying the price.

 

[CraigRT]

just so you know for future reference, the prices I'm quoting includes the water pump, which is almost always replaced with the timing belt. I'd go back and negotiate with the shop, threaten to file a BBB complaint if necessary, they are taking you for a ride and they know it.

Almost reminds me of Mazda of Orangeville

 

[jlee]

Hell you could probably swap in a 2zzge and a 6 speed from a Celica GTS for what they're asking to fix your Corolla motor..

 

[Gibson486]

Almost reminds me any Mazda Dealership

fixed

 

[MaxFusion16]

How can he file a complaint? He told them to do the work, they did it. It's his fault for not shopping around or verifying the price.

easy, have the shop produce a detailed itemized bill for services rendered, showing separate parts and labor cost, then have the shop write their labor rate on the bill. Calculate how many hours they are actually charging you; Service manuals tell you how many hours a service item takes, and if they are charging you 10 hours for a job that should only take 2, then you have grounds to file a complaint.

I'm pretty sure they'll be more than willing to negotiate as soon as you ask for an itemized bill; if not, then take it to your local consumer protection office, and file a BBB complaint.

 

[Meghan54]

easy, have the shop produce a detailed itemized bill for services rendered, showing separate parts and labor cost, then have the shop write their labor rate on the bill. Calculate how many hours they are actually charging you; Service manuals tell you how many hours a service item takes, and if they are charging you 10 hours for a job that should only take 2, then you have grounds to file a complaint.

I'm pretty sure they'll be more than willing to negotiate as soon as you ask for an itemized bill; if not, then take it to your local consumer protection office, and file a BBB complaint.

They're most likely charging book rate for the labor hours it'll take to do the timing belt.

But they're also probably adding in the separate book hours for the water pump....both jobs are listed separately and they're most likely adding the book rate for both jobs together, which is just stealing.

Separately, both jobs take XX hours, but doing the water pump in conjunction with the timing belt takes nowhere near the addition of the two jobs rated hours....but of course, the shop is doing just that. Adding together the hours the book quotes for both jobs done independently, so they can maximize the labor charged.

And that essentially boils down to them robbing you blind.

 

[bommy261]

updated.. see OP.

 

[thepd7]

updated.. see OP.

nice update, rocks that you did all that yourself!

 

[jlee]

Congrats!

 

[IcePickFreak]

Nice update OP! Always satisfying completing a big project like that, and it's all the more sweeter that it was new territory and you learned something new!

Contrary to popular belief though, doing you're own work isn't always cheaper. Next thing you know you'll have a project car that's totally unnecessary and spending money on it anyway. :awe: