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am I crazy? this nsx is really tempting

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Ehhh.

The NSX was nowhere near the status of the Diablo back in those days. "Supercar" is kind of a vague term, but even the ZR-1 C4 Vette didn't really truly qualify for that term.
The magazine didn't state that the NSX is equally comparable to the Diablo, but it was considered the top ten supercars, oh wait, I think it said "exotic cars".

"Supercar" is a vague term, which can mean a car that sets apart from the rest, like Chevy Malibu for example. Malibu is not a supercar. It was referring to cars that are extraordinary, with stellar performance and has exclusive feel and looks. You don't set the supercar standard yourself. 😉

It's like the people today who say the GT-R is a supercar. No, it's not.
GT-R today is considered supercar, even though I don't like to admit it (am not a fan of GT-R) due to its extra ordinary performance and look to it.

For it's time, the NSX was a great handling car with moderate power, with cool styling and unique materials. It still looks great today, but it's not really competitive when a base Vette just wipes the floor with it, not to mention the lowly Mustang.
Wipes floor in what?? Lap times? It doesn't have to have killer lap times to be qualified as supercar. Mustang is a cheap plastic junk which certainly falls in the class of Chevy Malibu, meaning, normal car.


Supercars :

F40, Diablo VT, F50, Porsche 959, Veyron, Saleen SSC, Zonda, LF-A, Aventador, etc.
Your term for being supercars are actually referring to the "hypercars". The Veyron, Saleen SSC, Zonda F Clubsport, Koenigsegg CCX/CCX-R/Agera-R, etc are considered "hypercars". They fall under supercar car category but the specifically hypercar sub category. The Diablo VT was good and considered supercar but is not in the hypercar subcategory.


Supercar recipe :

(1)- Rarefied expensive. More so than basically any drive-off-the-lot luxury car such as an S-Class or 7-series.
The S-Class and 7 series fall under normal cars, but they are sport-luxury vehicles. They are not supercars.

(2)- Rare. These are cars you see only once in a long while, unless you live in certain sections of California and Florida. For example, I see countless F458s, Gallardos, etc, but very very seldom see an F50 or Veyron.
NSX is very rare. I only see once a year or once every other year here. Which makes NSX even more special. It's actually easier to find other supercars on the road today, not NSX.

(3)- Top-tier performance for the time.

The NSX was not that expensive, not that rare, and not that fast (even for the time, and now it's pretty slow).
NSX was expensive in its time and still is. In the early days some magazine source tried to group the NSX in the RX-7, Supra, Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4, etc but they realized they made a mistake when the NSX sets the record in overall handling and driving feel, nothing like the others. After many years past, the reviewers and the car enthusiasts realized that the NSX is something else... It's not a normal car.

You are forgetting (or don't know) that the NSX was underpriced. It was worth well over $100k. The cost of R&D and production costs much more than the cars sold. Honda wasn't after making profit on the NSX model. It was done to improve the company's image and reputation.

There were reviews where the NSX bests the Ferrari F355 in terms of performance, and with better looks (IMO). Both cars are supercars btw. 😉


cheez
 
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The NSX is a good car, but is not and was not ever what I would consider a supercar.


About the only thing that makes it cool is that it's one of the few RWD hondas made. It was the best RWD honda ever made.

While interesting, it surprises me that a 150k+ mile NSX can get >$20k. I personally just don't see anywhere near $20k of value in it.
You must be young. Many young people don't know about the NSX as they were born long after the car was released. I have been having hard time finding any young folks that appreciate and really know about these cars. This explains why you claim it's not a supercar. These cars last forever. Several hundred thousand miles is nothing for them. Another unique thing about the NSX is the cost of ownership. They are relatively cheap to maintain / repair compare to the other supercars. That is actually a reasonable price. The value of the NSX has gone up in the recent years. It's more expensive now than before.


cheez
 
It won't anymore if you go through with buying a worn out, priced 200% of what it's worth one, you can trust me on that.

this thread was just a momentary lapse of judgement 🙂 still waiting/saving for the perfect (or better) one.
 
NSX is very rare. I only see once a year or once every other year here. Which makes NSX even more special. It's actually easier to find other supercars on the road today, not NSX.


There just shy of 9000 NSX's sold in the USA. 8,997 to be exact. It is not a RARE car.

That's awesome that you never see one - but your anecdotal experience is meaningless as the production numbers do not validate your opinion.

With a 1/4 mile time of 13.4 seconds - it is not a Supercar and was never considered a Supercar in 1991.

It was a fantastic Japanese sports car- the first of its kind from Honda as Nissan had been producing Z cars & Toyota had the Supra.

I see them riced out and bone stock all the time here in Silicon Valley. Its like Civic Hatchback drivers graduated from College and all went out and bought NSX's and threw on LED strip Halo headlights and JDM tow-hooks with giant exhaust pipes.
 
The magazine didn't state that the NSX is equally comparable to the Diablo, but it was considered the top ten supercars, oh wait, I think it said "exotic cars".

"Supercar" is a vague term, which can mean a car that sets apart from the rest, like Chevy Malibu for example. Malibu is not a supercar. It was referring to cars that are extraordinary, with stellar performance and has exclusive feel and looks. You don't set the supercar standard yourself. 😉

GT-R today is considered supercar, even though I don't like to admit it (am not a fan of GT-R) due to its extra ordinary performance and look to it.

Wipes floor in what?? Lap times? It doesn't have to have killer lap times to be qualified as supercar. Mustang is a cheap plastic junk which certainly falls in the class of Chevy Malibu, meaning, normal car.


Your term for being supercars are actually referring to the "hypercars". The Veyron, Saleen SSC, Zonda F Clubsport, Koenigsegg CCX/CCX-R/Agera-R, etc are considered "hypercars". They fall under supercar car category but the specifically hypercar sub category. The Diablo VT was good and considered supercar but is not in the hypercar subcategory.


The S-Class and 7 series fall under normal cars, but they are sport-luxury vehicles. They are not supercars.

NSX is very rare. I only see once a year or once every other year here. Which makes NSX even more special. It's actually easier to find other supercars on the road today, not NSX.

NSX was expensive in its time and still is. In the early days some magazine source tried to group the NSX in the RX-7, Supra, Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4, etc but they realized they made a mistake when the NSX sets the record in overall handling and driving feel, nothing like the others. After many years past, the reviewers and the car enthusiasts realized that the NSX is something else... It's not a normal car.

You are forgetting (or don't know) that the NSX was underpriced. It was worth well over $100k. The cost of R&D and production costs much more than the cars sold. Honda wasn't after making profit on the NSX model. It was done to improve the company's image and reputation.

There were reviews where the NSX bests the Ferrari F355 in terms of performance, and with better looks (IMO). Both cars are supercars btw. 😉


cheez

Haha, I think we're pretty far apart here :

(1)- Supercar is not an official term, but for it to have any real meaning, it must be pretty strict in terms of what qualifies.

(2)- GT-R is only considered a supercar by fanboys. It's a wonderful car, and truly impressive. But it's common, cheap, and has some weak spots compared to many real supercars.

(3)- Regarding new base Vette : It wipes the NSX in the floor in performance, period. Lap times, grip, braking, 0-60, 0-100, 0-100-0, etc. Changing the subject to the interior is pointless. Many 'supercars' have horrible interiors, such as the Diablo. A modern Chevy Cruze has a nicer interior than a Diablo. But a Diablo is a certified supercar, and the Cruze is an econobox.

(4)- "Hypercar" is a term meant to speak to truly ridiculous cars, but it's needless and should be ignored by anyone serious, imho.

(5)- The NSX wasn't underpriced when going by performance. Remember, the C4 ZR-1 was the same price on launch, and was plainly faster (heaps more power). You did get a very cool design, and imho a much more unique piece of automotive engineering, but 'underpriced' just because it was a halo car money loser is not accurate when you are looking at pure $/performance. After all, in the end it doesn't matter to you and I how much money the company is losing selling us the car, it matters how it compares to other vehicles in the price range. Dodge sold the Viper for a loss for many years, and the Viper also would eat an F355 alive in performance (see Nurburgring, Laguna Seca, etc), yet the Viper is not a "Supercar".

(6)- The NSX is somewhat rare, but I see them far more often than the relatively common Gallardos and F458s around here.

(7)- The NSX wasn't that expensive in the big picture. As noted, same price as Vette ZR-1. Far less than real supercars of the era. The comment on the S-Class and 7 series was the opposite of what you thought it meant. They are clearly NOT supercars. Yet they cost more than the NSX.

(8)- As for the F355, and the 360, and the 458, none of those are supercars. Those are sports cars. The 355 actually wasn't very good in the big picture (horrible interior, iffy brakes, questionable suspension whether track or street, etc), though of course the 458 is spectacular. Ferrari does make supercars, but their entry-level mass-market vehicles don't really qualify.

(9)- Comparing to the 3000GT VR-4, Supra Twin Turbo .. is an interesting one. IIRC, the NSX was down on power and straight-line performance, but lead the others in handling, both in feel and in track times. Still, the fact that all of those cars perform in the same ballpark is = not supercar.

(10)- As noted by anyone who follows cars : The NSX is a great achievement in many ways. It's still pretty nice looking 20-odd years later. It just isn't, nor has it ever been, a supercar, unless you lower the definition so much that the term loses all credibility.
 
There just shy of 9000 NSX's sold in the USA. 8,997 to be exact. It is not a RARE car.

That's awesome that you never see one - but your anecdotal experience is meaningless as the production numbers do not validate your opinion.

With a 1/4 mile time of 13.4 seconds - it is not a Supercar and was never considered a Supercar in 1991.

It was a fantastic Japanese sports car- the first of its kind from Honda as Nissan had been producing Z cars & Toyota had the Supra.

I see them riced out and bone stock all the time here in Silicon Valley. Its like Civic Hatchback drivers graduated from College and all went out and bought NSX's and threw on LED strip Halo headlights and JDM tow-hooks with giant exhaust pipes.

You said it better than I, thanks 🙂

It's not even that I dislike the NSX in any way, and for the right price I'd consider one (my days of actually caring about truly balls-to-the-wall performance are over anyway), but

NSX =! Supercar.

It's a very nice older sports car however.
 
Send one to LoveFab, they'll turn an NSX into a "supercar". $30k NSX + 30k in tuning and you'll have a 600bhp car that competes with almost anything (turbo lag notwithstanding). It's no joke, I've driven one that's fully dialed-in and dressed and it's a thrilling experience, and I'm a very jaded mofo when it comes to car performance.
 
Sorry guys. Nsx is a supercar.



Is a gullwing sl not a super car ? Sure it's slower than a c6 but what the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in china ?


It's now a classic supercar.

Unless You have driven one you don't understand.

We now return You to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
Sorry guys. Nsx is a supercar.



Is a gullwing sl not a super car ? Sure it's slower than a c6 but what the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in china ?


It's now a classic supercar.

Unless You have driven one you don't understand.

We now return You to your regularly scheduled programming.

I've driven three of them (my FB friends can verify the latest one).

The point is that the car was slower in 1990 than many pedestrian cars such as Supra Twin Turbo, C4 ZR-1, etc.

They are quite good cars, but dragging the supercar name through the mud makes no sense. They are too cheap, too slow, and too common to be supercars.
 
Supercars don't lose that status just because they are eclipsed by newer, cheaper models (in speed).

That said I agree with the sentiment that the NSX is probably not one. It exists in the strange in-between place that halo cars from mass-market brands end up.

I don't really consider the Viper, the Corvette (in any trim, including ZR-1), GT-R, or the NSX to be supercars.

On the other hand the LF-A definitely is, as is the Ford GT.

A good indication IMO is the resale market. All of the cars in my 'not a supercar' list are fairly attainable by everyday people. Have you looked at what a Ford GT still sells for?

It's not something that can be easily defined by formula but I think most car guys would sort them pretty similarly.

Oh and on the subject of the NSX - Totally awesome and worth owning even though a modern minivan is probably faster.

Viper GTS
THIS
 
I've driven three of them (my FB friends can verify the latest one).

The point is that the car was slower in 1990 than many pedestrian cars such as Supra Twin Turbo, C4 ZR-1, etc.

They are quite good cars, but dragging the supercar name through the mud makes no sense. They are too cheap, too slow, and too common to be supercars.

Slower in a straight line.They had faster lap times in most large curcuits including tsukuba which was the japanese benchmark for a good car.
Speed in a straight line isnt everything to everyone. You guys gotta stop with the cookie cutter mentality where what you feel in the seat of your pants is going to be the same for everyone else.


At the time of its sale many auto enthusiast magazines included the NSX in supercar shootouts because it hung in there like the GTR does today.


You dont think its a supercar? Fine. Dont assume everyone thinks the way you do.




The NSX was a very special car that will be remembered as a supercar much like the Mercedes I mentioned earlier.


Besides Senna touched it so that makes it super in my book 😛


completely unrelated video that shows the mr2gts was a supercar too right fuzzy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFEi-0Rx6J0
 
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I don't see a ring time for the C4 Z1. Nonetheless, a Z1 should be compared to the NSX-R considering they're both upgraded over their base models.

Brute force is great and all, but if you're making slower laps which is faster? The one making the faster laps.

Some of those rides you say are faster for their day are perhaps faster in a straight line but overall faster? No, that they are not.

I do tend to agree with Viper GTS regarding supercar status of the NSX. It's more accurate to call the NSX an exotic/halo car. It had more refinement, engineering than any other production car on the planet for its time (source: me). There's a reason why it was hand built for nearly a 2 decade production run with very little change.

Some of this is why some people are willing to pay 30k for a great condition 15-20 year old car, not so much because of collecting but because they're damn good reliable cars that can still put a smile on your face to people who appreciate driving.

If I had 40k burning a hole in my pocket I'd get a coupe and drag it up to Lovefab in Michigan and call it done or just grab one with a SC already installed off NSX Prime classifieds and pocket the difference then people who bitch my car can't go down a road in a straight line I can say it tends to do such with moderate competence. 🙂
 
Some good read for those that don't know about the NSX.


Designing an All-Aluminum, Monocoque Body


Prototype I was completed in mid-1986, representing the team’s first construction using the Milky Way diagram. At this stage, they were considering both sheet steel and aluminum as potential body materials. Of the two, steel sheet was less favored, since it would make the target running performance of a midrange, F-1 class car more difficult to achieve. Moreover, to counter the added weight a larger, heavier engine would have to be used, thus pushing the car right out of the midrange category. Sheet steel would also be a liability in terms of the car’s purpose, which was to break from the conventional image of a sportscar as a compromise in comfort and safety for the sake of superior slalom statistics. Of course, the team was planning to furnish the car with cutting-edge accessories and devices such as power windows, full-automatic air conditioning, traction control and antilock brakes systems (ABS). To accomplish this, however, the weight of the vehicle would have to be minimized. Thus, it was decided that the NSX would have the world’s first all-aluminum, monocoque body.

No other atuomaker had yet to build a car primarily of aluminum, however, even though the material was pollution-free and in abundant supply. It is said that among the mineral resources the amount of estimated aluminum reserves is three times that of iron. Moreover, aluminum has one-third the specific gravity of iron, is resistant to corrosion, and is much easier to recycle. Despite such powerful advantages, the material has several drawbacks, particularly a high cost and proportionately higher technical requirements in molding and welding. But the development team’s greatest hurdle was the need to build a dedicated plant simply to produce the car’s aluminum body.

The project required that the development team make frequent trips between the R&D centers at Tochigi and Wako. During one such trip, aboard the Shinkansen, they realized that the bullet train was itself made of aluminum.

Aluminum has proved very adaptable to the Shinkansen, in fact. So, the team members saw no reason why it couldn’t be used for the body of a sportscar. And though there might be problems along the way, they made a promise then that they wouldn’t shy away from the challenge of creating a car for the new era.

Kobe Steel and other material suppliers appeared somewhat perplexed at the development team’s request that they collaborate in the creation of an all-aluminum car body. Because aluminum is prone to buckling during stamping work and is difficult to weld, its use in mass-production cars was limited to a relatively small assortment of parts. The suppliers were confused by the team’s decision to make the entire body out of aluminum, and doubted the seriousness of Honda’s intentions. However, the staff offered their earnest explanation to the skeptics, saying they needed an aluminum body to build their new sportscar. It was the kind of honest enthusiasm that eventually led the suppliers to wonder, why not?”

Various types of aluminum were considered, but the suppliers selected the 5000 and 6000 series. The former was already being used in the automotive industry, while the latter had relatively high strength despite its lower formability. Still, various enhancements would have to be performed. The supply company personnel in charge of development spent many days anguishing over the situation, working feverishly to meet a series of conditions stipulated by Honda in order to ensure productivity in stamping, forming, welding, coating and other processes. In fact, the hours were so long and arduous that toward the end of development they would often spend the night right in their factory.

Problems inevitably arose, and with them came headaches and delays. In particular, processing of the side sill was proving difficult, since aluminum, unlike iron, wasn’t suitable for deeply drawn press work. Therefore, a new forming process was devised whereby the aluminum was heated to 600 degrees, poured into dies, and extruded from the dies while it was being drawn. But this system created a super-strong, highly rigid honeycomb frame, and this technique ultimately became the assurance that their all-aluminum body would satisfy the rigors of high performance on the open road.

A selection of five aluminum alloys was eventually incorporated into the vehicle. This thorough attention to detail—along with numerous other efforts—soon led to a body-weight reduction of 140 kg and nearly 200 kg for the entire car, as compared to a steel-bodied equivalent. It was quite an achievement in the eyes of the material suppliers, too, who were amazed to see just how much of a car could be made with aluminum.

Concurrent with the material development of mid-1986, the development team collaborated with the Suzuka factory in building an aluminum-bodied prototype CR-X. Performance tests were conducted with the prototype, then the results and problems they identified were examined to determine whether it would be practical to build a car with an aluminum body. Next, the team studied the basic frame structure of an aluminum body for a midship sportscar using Prototype I. Several test drives and crash tests were carried out using the prototype, in order to obtain thorough verifications covering everything from rigidity to repair techniques. The results were reflected in Prototype II, which was much closer to a final product. With Prototype II, interior accessories, equipment, passenger comfort and environmental adaptability were considered as part of the car’s overall performance picture.
Source: http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1990thensx/text03/index.html


Yes, Ayrton Senna was involved on testing the NSX when he came to Japan for testing the McLaren F1 project.

[SIZE=+3]Subjecting to Severe Tests at Nurburgring
[/SIZE]

The team spent an entire month at the Suzuka Circuit in the early stages of D-development, where they conducted numerous evaluations using their test car. Then in February 1989, the team had an opportunity to ask famed F-1 driver, the late Ayrton Senna—who had come to Japan in order to test a McLaren F-1 machine–to drive their car.

“I’m not sure I can really give you appropriate advice on a mass-production car, but I feel it’s a little fragile,” said Senna, referring to the car’s apparent lack of rigidity. And even though the car was designed for a level of rigidity equaling that of a Porsche or Ferrari, Senna was able to sense slight differences that would have been well beyond range of the typical driver. But based on that comment, the team raised its objectives for rigidity in April, turning again to the test car in order to ensure their target was met.

The chosen test site was to be West Germany’s famed Nurburgring high-speed race course. It was a memorable location for Honda, the site of the company’s F-1 debut. The circuit had an overall length of 20.8 km, over 200 blind corners, and a 300-meter change in elevation. It was an extremely difficult circuit for cars and drivers alike, for whom extreme skills were needed to maneuver through steep ascending and descending sections of track lined with dense plantings of trees. So, it was believed that the course would reveal problems they couldn’t see in Japan. To them there was no better environment in which to test what they hoped would become the world’s finest sportscar.

Thanks to the assistance of Honda R&D Europe (HRE), the team was able to secure an office and garage in Müllenbach, a town located just two kilometers from the circuit. With their new workshop set up, it was to be the first time a Japanese automaker would conduct long-term testing at an overseas location.

The course offered an immediate venue for the series of tests the team had devised in order to increase their car’s rigidity. They knew that on an extremely difficult course such as Nurburgring even a slight delay in the vehicle’s response to input would obliterate the marriage of interaction between car and driver, and thus rob the latter of the ability to accelerate appropriately. And what they learned was that the body’s poor rigidity had everything to do with the failure of that relationship.

It was an iron-clad rule for any overseas test that in the event of an issue that couldn’t be fully conveyed to the staff in Japan, the team on-site must tackle the issue independently. So, in West Germany the design engineers in charge of the vehicle’s various components took turns sitting in the front passenger seat, evaluating the car’s performance along with the test driver. If any problem was found, a solution would be devised on the spot. It was a distinct departure from the norm, but the team knew it was the only way to build the world’s best car.

The test data taken on site was immediately sent back to the R&D Center in Japan, where the numbers were fed into a computer for analysis. It was in this stage that the optimal shape was determined in order to maximize rigidity and minimize weight.

Accordingly, the car’s rigidity was increased by 50 percent as compared to the figure in place immediately before the West German tests. And so, after eight long months of effort, they had at last achieved the levels of dynamic performance and comfort demanded for a world-class sportscar. The team had arrived at the consummate integration between man and machine.

The 81st Chicago Auto Show held in February 1989 saw throngs of media and consumers surrounding a bright-red sportscar--Honda’s new NS-X (Note: the NS-X was actually introduced as an “Acura” brand car, the upscale sales channel in the U.S.). The development code name, NS-X represented “new,” “sportscar” and “unknown world,” X being the mathematical symbol for an unknown value. It was the prototype for a new offering that Honda believed would captivate driving enthusiasts around the world.

Just goes to show how much R&D and effort put in to this car. 😉


cheez
 
Cool car is cool.

Semantic supercar argument is semantic.

It is cool that such focused R&D went into one car, but to think that it is a uniquely high level of effort in the car world would be a mistake.
 
I don't see a ring time for the C4 Z1. Nonetheless, a Z1 should be compared to the NSX-R considering they're both upgraded over their base models.

Brute force is great and all, but if you're making slower laps which is faster? The one making the faster laps.

Some of those rides you say are faster for their day are perhaps faster in a straight line but overall faster? No, that they are not.

I do tend to agree with Viper GTS regarding supercar status of the NSX. It's more accurate to call the NSX an exotic/halo car. It had more refinement, engineering than any other production car on the planet for its time (source: me). There's a reason why it was hand built for nearly a 2 decade production run with very little change.

Some of this is why some people are willing to pay 30k for a great condition 15-20 year old car, not so much because of collecting but because they're damn good reliable cars that can still put a smile on your face to people who appreciate driving.

If I had 40k burning a hole in my pocket I'd get a coupe and drag it up to Lovefab in Michigan and call it done or just grab one with a SC already installed off NSX Prime classifieds and pocket the difference then people who bitch my car can't go down a road in a straight line I can say it tends to do such with moderate competence. 🙂

This is pretty much my thoughts on it. I may sound harsh, but that's mainly because Honda didn't feel like putting the power that thing could truly handle out the door in stock form. IIRC, there was some weird HP limit for Japanese cars at the time, and both Mitsubishi and Toyota sort of stretched the limits with their own (admittedly less refined) Supra/GTVR4.

I'm actually a pretty big fan of the NSX, they have serious track cred and serious reliability cred, which is a weird combo that perhaps I've only seen in the extremely incomparable Miata. And like the Miata, adding the missing power is not an unfixable problem, even if you don't do a motor swap (the 3.0 model is a tougher problem to overcome, but not impossibly so).

In the end it's more of a battle of semantics of course, but in my mind 'supercar' has to maintain the bizarre envelope that it does, or the term begins to lose meaning completely. And it's not even a term one needs to worry about fitting into, the very term doesn't immediately mean that it's even a GOOD car. Many legit 'supercars' were actually not great vehicles at all, but hit the checkmarks of super expensive, super rare, and damned fast (even if certain aspects about them were bad/terrible). If anything, the NSX, much like the GT-R (and Vettes/Vipers) deserve that much more respect because they deliver the goods much like the real supercars, but without the supercar price, and with production numbers that make them attainable.

Take a legit Supercar from the 90s, say this '94 Diablo VT. 500HP of AWD chaos from a big V12, wrapped in insane italian skin and with an interior with all the subtle quality of a 90s Hyundai, and the reliability of a schizophrenic monkey on mushrooms and cocaine. It's for sale with 20k miles for $90k with NO warranty. Even for a well-seasoned wrencher that's probably the worst daily driver one can imagine. Driving that car for another 50k miles would take heroic effort and probably $1,000 for every 1,000 miles on average with time/parts to keep it going properly.

Now take the NSX. forget $90k, $70k gets you a 2005 NSX-T model with 11k miles.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-Silver-/160953821256?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2579986848

It will make a superb daily driver (aside from blind soccer moms in 6-ton SUVs who can't see you down there riding inches from the ground), dead reliable, and even with a conservative turbo setup will embarass that Diablo at nearly every level (other than looking ridiculous).

Yet it's still a halo/sports car, a very very nice one, and not a supercar.
 
that was my dream car backin high school. somewhat ironically, my 2008 tl-s has just as much power and is probably faster.
 
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