Am I a socialist?

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Reliant

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
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With fixed incomes or capped incomes productivity among those with capped incomes will go down. Who wants to put extra work in if it doesn't show up in their paycheck? A few will, but this country is based off the harder you work the more you get. Capping income totally negates this concept.
 

amcdonald

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
4,012
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Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
Originally posted by: K1052
Would you cap total wealth as well? Including stock holdings, assets, etc..
No, you can do what you want with your money ($300,000 / yr) ... spend it or save it. I think by capping the billion dollar/yr salaries we would also be able to increase the pay of teachers / firemen / police offers and ANY position that doesn't make the money it should.
Seriously... have you even thought about this before? Why the hell would a teacher's salary go up because Jay Leno's goes down? How are those related AT ALL???
The ONLY thing that would happen if Jay Leno's salary is cut by $10 million, is that NBC as a company would make $10 million more. They would have NO REASON to pay out more to their other employees... What the hell is wrong with you people. grow up.
 

Red

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2002
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As a lawyer, I take exception to a salary cap. I spent 12 + 4 + 3 years in school, passed the Texas Bar Exam, and I have tremendous personal liability for what I do for my clients. If my liabiliity for what I do (or don't do) is unlimited, why should anyone limit my earning potential?

Socialism robs people of economic initiative to achieve great things, and that ultimately hurts the economy.

Your POV is typical of small minded, jealous, havenots who show up for a job, punch a clock, and wonder why everyone else is making killer bank. They are also the ones who would like to see government even the playing field because they did not have the talent to make it, or did not have the desire to put in the long hours to achieve success.

Here is a concept - go to grad school or pick up a football. Put in hours of time perfecting your art. Become what you are jealous of, and tell me if your income potential should be capped.
Well, just like others, you're becoming defensive and contemptuous about your salary. Because someone went to school for X number of years I don't think they deserve any more or less money than the person monitoring our streets every night. You obviously have a problem with materialism if you think that your years of sitting in a classroom or nights studying in a comfortable dorm entitle you to a better living than someone who has chosen a different path than you.

BTW, I'm starting my senior of college. I am a very talented person with goals, but I think that by overcoming the path that capitalism forces on people (buying things makes me happy) I will be a much, much happier, less stressed person than you in my life because I've realized that buying shiny things doesn't make me happy.
 

DrNoobie

Banned
Mar 3, 2004
774
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Originally posted by: Redhotjrm

Well, just like others, you're becoming defensive and contemptuous about your salary. Because someone went to school for X number of years I don't think they deserve any more or less money than the person monitoring our streets every night. You obviously have a problem with materialism if you think that your years of sitting in a classroom or nights studying in a comfortable dorm entitle you to a better living than someone who has chosen a different path than you.

BTW, I'm starting my senior of college. I am a very talented person with goals, but I think that by overcoming the path that capitalism forces on people (buying things makes me happy) I will be a much, much happier, less stressed person than you in my life because I've realized that buying shiny things doesn't make me happy.
You're right. Those 80+ hours/week I'm putting in a minimum wage to get my foot in the door of med school means nothing. The fact that during your internship and residency you work 80-100/week and make as much as a waiter means nothing. Those guys working 8 hour shifts riding around in a car or sitting in a classroom (I'm not in anyway trying to degrade teachers and policemen, as they are both important members of our society) should make the same amount as me, because they work just as hard.


Without a reward for harder work, people will not work harder. It's that simple. Hell, look at these boards now. People post on here and half ass their jobs already. Sure, socialism would work in a perfect society, but we don't live in one. Wake up to the real world.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
2
76
I think the system we have now is pretty good. We put a value on the skills of each person and rightfully so. A person who has spent 25 years getting schooling to become a doctor should not have the same salary as someone who spent 2 days training to become a janitor.

You mention intrinsic motivation to become a doctor or whatever. Granted having such motivations is always a plus, I dont think it is necessary. Sometimes external motivators, such as money and wealth, work just as well in producing competent doctors that tend to our needs. You say that buying shiny things doesn't make you happy. But I would say you will be a lot sadder if every material possession you own now was suddenly taken away.

Either way, I though having fixed salaries etc was considered Communism instead of Socialism.
 

Red

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2002
3,704
0
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You're right. Those 80+ hours/week I'm putting in a minimum wage to get my foot in the door of med school means nothing. The fact that during your internship and residency you work 80-100/week and make as much as a waiter means nothing. Those guys working 8 hour shifts riding around in a car or sitting in a classroom (I'm not in anyway trying to degrade teachers and policemen, as they are both important members of our society) should make the same amount as me, because they work just as hard.


Without a reward for harder work, people will not work harder. It's that simple. Hell, look at these boards now. People post on here and half ass their jobs already. Sure, socialism would work in a perfect society, but we don't live in one. Wake up to the real world.
No, I choose to live in this captialist society, and I'm sure I'll do quite fine, this is just a topic that I think deep down should be fine. As I mentioned above, if the people aren't happy with $300,000, then they have problems.
 

axelfox

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
6,721
1
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Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers don't bring in the cash like major pro athletes do. That's why they make a lot of money.

People who make money, MAKE money.
 

Red

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2002
3,704
0
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Originally posted by: Mo0o
I think the system we have now is pretty good. We put a value on the skills of each person and rightfully so. A person who has spent 25 years getting schooling to become a doctor should not have the same salary as someone who spent 2 days training to become a janitor.

You mention intrinsic motivation to become a doctor or whatever. Granted having such motivations is always a plus, I dont think it is necessary. Sometimes external motivators, such as money and wealth, work just as well in producing competent doctors that tend to our needs. You say that buying shiny things doesn't make you happy. But I would say you will be a lot sadder if every material possession you own now was suddenly taken away.

Either way, I though having fixed salaries etc was considered Communism instead of Socialism.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying pay janitors $20,000 / year and pay doctors $300,000. Just don't pay entertainers and stuff $69 million for a movie when they much money could be used to help make the U.S. a better country.
 

amcdonald

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
4,012
0
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Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
You're right. Those 80+ hours/week I'm putting in a minimum wage to get my foot in the door of med school means nothing. The fact that during your internship and residency you work 80-100/week and make as much as a waiter means nothing. Those guys working 8 hour shifts riding around in a car or sitting in a classroom (I'm not in anyway trying to degrade teachers and policemen, as they are both important members of our society) should make the same amount as me, because they work just as hard.


Without a reward for harder work, people will not work harder. It's that simple. Hell, look at these boards now. People post on here and half ass their jobs already. Sure, socialism would work in a perfect society, but we don't live in one. Wake up to the real world.
No, I choose to live in this captialist society, and I'm sure I'll do quite fine, this is just a topic that I think deep down should be fine. As I mentioned above, if the people aren't happy with $300,000, then they have problems.
Do you make $300,000 a year? how long have you been making this much? What makes you think rich people have problems??!? Maybe they have kids and want to make sure they will always be comfortable and not have to worry about money. Seriously.... I have to conclude that you have not tasted enough of the real world to understand why you are so wrong. This is not a utopia. We are not robots. Everyone is motivated by rewards. Whether the rewards are monetary or emotional, its all the same.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
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76
Well the only reason they're paid that much is because they're worth that much.
 

Red

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2002
3,704
0
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Do you make $300,000 a year? how long have you been making this much? What makes you think rich people have problems??!? Maybe they have kids and want to make sure they will always be comfortable and not have to worry about money. Seriously.... I have to conclude that you have not tasted enough of the real world to understand why you are so wrong. This is not a utopia. We are not robots. Everyone is motivated by rewards. Whether the rewards are monetary or emotional, its all the same.
If $300,000 / year is not enough to help your children develop into contributing citizens of society, then that is a problem. If you want to make endless amounts of money so your offspring can shop all day or do whatever (Paris Hilton) that is a detriment to society.
 

Ynog

Golden Member
Oct 9, 2002
1,782
1
0
The comment about no one over 300,000 is definately sounds like a socialist comment.

Problem with athletes is if you think about it, if they don't make the money,
the owner makes it. The money is going to someone. When you get down
to it, its just a reverse of what it used to be, with players being screwed
over and owners making large profits. Now the players make alot more
money, and some owners are losing money.

You wish you could have a nice median, where the owner makes good money,
the player makes money, and the fan is treated well. That will never happen
though, probably one of the downsides of unions.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
2
76
Well I think from what we've learned in USSR and China, even if you take a lot of money from the citizens, it doesn't mean you will have a better country. Having salary caps will only demotivate people and create an apathetic society that is unwilling to try to succeed.
 

Red

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2002
3,704
0
0
Originally posted by: Ynog
The comment about no one over 300,000 is definately sounds like a socialist comment.

Problem with athletes is if you think about it, if they don't make the money,
the owner makes it. The money is going to someone. When you get down
to it, its just a reverse of what it used to be, with players being screwed
over and owners making large profits. Now the players make alot more
money, and some owners are losing money.

You wish you could have a nice median, where the owner makes good money,
the player makes money, and the fan is treated well.
That will never happen
though, probably one of the downsides of unions.
Thank you for understanding the whole point of my post. Instead of an athlete or owner making billions, that money could be used to lower the price of tickets (free viewing?) food, etc.
 

Titan

Golden Member
Oct 15, 1999
1,819
0
0
not only are you a socialist, or even possibly a communist, you obviously have no clue how capitalism works.
 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
76
Originally posted by: Mo0o
Well I think from what we've learned in USSR and China, even if you take a lot of money from the citizens, it doesn't mean you will have a better country. Having salary caps will only demotivate people and create an apathetic society that is unwilling to try to succeed.
Exactly, try to look back on history, you do not want to repeat bad history my friend.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
2
76
Originally posted by: Ynog
The comment about no one over 300,000 is definately sounds like a socialist comment.

Problem with athletes is if you think about it, if they don't make the money,
the owner makes it. The money is going to someone. When you get down
to it, its just a reverse of what it used to be, with players being screwed
over and owners making large profits. Now the players make alot more
money, and some owners are losing money.

You wish you could have a nice median, where the owner makes good money,
the player makes money, and the fan is treated well. That will never happen
though, probably one of the downsides of unions.
I agree. Also the only reason the players CAN be paid that much is because the fans are willing to shell out that much money to watch them play and buy the merchandise. If you dont pay the players, all the money will go to the owners, which just creates a bigger gap. Unless of course you have the government take anything past 300,000 that the owners make. Then thats just plain stealing.

 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
41,933
23,297
136
Originally posted by: Redhotjrm
Do you make $300,000 a year? how long have you been making this much? What makes you think rich people have problems??!? Maybe they have kids and want to make sure they will always be comfortable and not have to worry about money. Seriously.... I have to conclude that you have not tasted enough of the real world to understand why you are so wrong. This is not a utopia. We are not robots. Everyone is motivated by rewards. Whether the rewards are monetary or emotional, its all the same.
If $300,000 / year is not enough to help your children develop into contributing citizens of society, then that is a problem. If you want to make endless amounts of money so your offspring can shop all day or do whatever (Paris Hilton) that is a detriment to society.
How does it impact you? Why do you care what individuals do with their money?
 

bigalt

Golden Member
Oct 12, 2000
1,525
0
0
you should read 'looking backwards' by edward bellamy.

i support the basketball players' ridiculous salaries because I really enjoy watching some of the teams play, on tv and live. I choose not to support most of the people in the movie industry, but I know full well that the people to the left and right of me will still go and see lord of the rings 3, voting for more of the same. it's what the people are asking for. they don't want more health care, they want more keanu reaves movies.
 

Kerouactivist

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2001
4,655
0
76
I like the idea of a salary cap, I think the end results of how everything would even out, would be great.
It makes alot more since than the BS "hey life is not fair attitude" (elitist social darwinism BS).
One day the 95% of this country that has very little money will smarten up and tell the 5% that own a grossely disproportionate amount of the goods "hey you said it life's not fair". Now it's your turn to pay for the money you have made off the backs of the under paid in this society. I'll give the "Have's" this, they have done a really good job of convincing the "have not's" in this country that they are worthless and don't deserve the necessities and that's the american way. Change will come it may be far off but, it will come.

That makes me a person who cares about others, call it what you want but, I believe that everyone is entilted to Housing, Food, and Medical care. If we are civilized and advanced I think we should be able to provide that.
I don't have all the answers I'm not even sure how I would design all if given a chance but, somethings definitely need to change.
just IMHO, now bring on the Commie jokes etc... idiots
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
2
76
Well its a big difference to have social programs than it is to redistribute wealth. Ones socialism ones communism.
 

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