Am I a self-hating Jew if...

[Random Variable]

I think that President Bush must sit down with PM Sharon and tell him that as long as Israel is receiving military aid from the United States, he (Sharon) cannot do whatever he likes.

I would prefer to read the opinion of someone who is Jewish.

 

[pulse8]

Isn't the whole idea of "support" to help someone with the choices that they want to make?

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: pulse8
Isn't the whole idea of "support" to help someone with the choices that they want to make?

It should be.

 

[DaiShan]

First off I am not Jewish. Second I do believe that Sharon must follow some of our advice, but I don't think we should have him on a leash. Also I don't know why Bush keeps telling him to find a peaceful solution to this problem when we ourselves declared war on our problem with terrorism. What happened as soon as Israel pulled out of the west bank? That's right more suicide bombers, the Palestinians do no want peace, I don't even think it is about the land anymore, rather some convoluted idea of racial domination and genocide. What do you think would happen if Israel gave back the West Bank, and Golan heights in their entirety? Do you think that the two could then live in peace, or do you think the Palestinians would want more, namely all of the land that used to belong to them? I don't think the Palestinians will be happy until they have driven the Israelis out of their land, and sent them packing on ships in the same fashion as was seen shortly before the Zionist movement took hold.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: pulse8
Isn't the whole idea of "support" to help someone with the choices that they want to make?

yes but those who are supporting the other must agree that the choices that are being taken are the right choices

 

[pulse8]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: pulse8
Isn't the whole idea of "support" to help someone with the choices that they want to make?

It should be.

So then if we're giving Israel military "support", shouldn't PM Sharon be the one making the key decisions?

yes but those who are supporting the other must agree that the choices that are being taken are the right choices

I know this has nothing to do with what's going on there, but have you never supported a friend in something you didn't agree with?

 

[Czar]

What happened as soon as Israel pulled out of the west bank?

they never pulled out of the west bank, only out of the major cities, ever since the great "pullout" they have been entering cities over night arresting people and then leaving.

 

[Random Variable]

So then if we're giving Israel military "support", shouldn't PM Sharon be the one making the key decisions?

How about I change the word "support" to "aid." I don't want this thread to be about semantics.

 

[Passner]

Regardless of support, Israel must do what is in the best interest of defending itself. Whether or not this conflicts with the person giving us 3 billion out of the 50 billion we spend should take a back seat. Bush has been our best ally, however he can't be right 100% of the time, especially when he has his own agenda to push. It is those times when Sharon must gently push Bush aside and say "I have to defend the people who gave me this job." And no you are not self-hating, although Adam Shapiro and Bobby Fischer are.

 

[Czar]

Vespasian,
You are definetly not a self-hating jew, you just question decisions being made and that should at least be normal. People should have the right to question without being called anti something or selfhating something.

 

[ThePresence]

The US definitly does not have the best interests of Israel in mind, and they shouldn't. They have the best interests of the US in mind, like they should. Every country looks out for itself first. Obviously the US feels that it's in its best interests to support Israel. However, Israel knows that the US policy decisions do not necessarily have the best interests of Israel in mind. Therefore, Israel will do what IT must do for it's own good and survival. While the Israelis are trying to accomodate the US wishes, they will not be ordered around while their survival is at stake, regardless of how much money or support the US gives them. The US government understands this, but they obviously still think that its in the bests interest of the US to support Israel.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Czar

What happened as soon as Israel pulled out of the west bank?

they never pulled out of the west bank, only out of the major cities, ever since the great "pullout" they have been entering cities over night arresting people and then leaving.

Isnt that terrible? They're actually arresting the poor murderous terrorists. My heart bleeds for them.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Czar
Vespasian,
You are definetly not a self-hating jew, you just question decisions being made and that should at least be normal. People should have the right to question without being called anti something or selfhating something.

My father is much more critical than I am. He despises Sharon.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Czar
Vespasian,
You are definetly not a self-hating jew, you just question decisions being made and that should at least be normal. People should have the right to question without being called anti something or selfhating something.

My father is much more critical than I am. He despises Sharon.

what about the rest of the family?

 

[Random Variable]

what about the rest of the family?

Except for my father's sister (whose daughter lives in Israel) nobody in my family really talks about what's going on Israel. I guess it's just too depressing.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
Except for my father's sister (whose daughter lives in Israel) nobody in my family really talks about what's going on Israel. I guess it's just too depressing.

understandably

 

[Jejunum]

Hey Vespasian on an aside

didnt u used to more or less support israel unilaterally? (as i remmeber from ur post...could be completely wrong)

has ur opinion changed at all the in the last 3 months? - if so why?

thnx!

 

[Random Variable]

It is probably very naive of me to say this, but I want to give the world as many reasons as possible not to hate the Jewish people.

 

[Random Variable]

if so why?

I want my people to be liked, not universally hated.

 

[Czar]

Vespasian,
when most people criticize israel they are not doing that because they are jews or anything like that, just criticizing actions taken by one government.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Czar
Vespasian,
when most people criticize israel they are not doing that because they are jews or anything like that, just criticizing actions taken by one government.

I have a hard time believing that most people make that distinction.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
I have a hard time believing that most people make that distinction.

nearly all people who talk about it openly like in the press are only doing it because they dislike how Israel is dealing with the problem, but sadly there are stupid people that take that critizism and let it fuel their hate towards minorities like the jews are. This has been happening all over the world through out history towards almost any minoritie possible.

 

[Siva]

Isreal is not a puppet state and the US should not use threats to pull money to strongarm them. If Isreal goes to far they should just pull the aid, without wasting time with threats.

 

[Vernor]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
I think that President Bush must sit down with PM Sharon and tell him that as long as Israel is receiving military aid from the United States, he (Sharon) cannot do whatever he likes.

I would prefer to read the opinion of someone who is Jewish.

Define 'whatever'.

We've tried meddling before with internal Israeli issues, and it usually backfired.

 

[Random Variable]

We've tried meddling before with internal Israeli issues, and it usually backfired.

Give me an example.