Alternative to the immigration law in Arizona..

[nobodyknows]

Neither do I.

So then you have no problem deporting the illegal immigrants as we find them?

 

[her209]

How many agents do we need to raid or inspect meat packing plants, farms or other businesses which are notorious for hiring illegals?

Considering the thousands upon thousands of businesses that hiring illegal labor, we don't have enough. Illegal immigrants aren't just working low menial jobs these days, i.e., they are moving into office work.

 

[her209]

Ya know something I forgot because its been so long . Other people my age must recall this . We were required to show berth cert. to get hired. I believe that stopped in 75 . anyone recall when we no longer needed it.

My guess is with the influx of (poor) Southeast Asian immigrants fleeing to the US, many didn't have documentation of their birth.

 

[tk149]

So then you have no problem deporting the illegal immigrants as we find them?

No. But the real question should be how do we keep them from coming back illegally?

 

[ZOOYUKA]

It bothers me how many people are in a stir over the potential racial profiling impact. Racial profiling is ok if it gives a minority something free or an upper hand that they have not earned, but it is racist if it is to savor and protect this country.

 

[nobodyknows]

No. But the real question should be how do we keep them from coming back illegally?

The first thing we have to do is increase the people guarding the boader, build a fence if thats what it takes. At the same time we need to create a system so employers can easily check a workers credintials and pass some harsh laws that punish employers who knowingly hire illegals.

Once we have the influx of illegals coming into this country under control then we can look at amnesty, green cards, changing the imiigration laws, etc.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It bothers me how many people are in a stir over the potential racial profiling impact. Racial profiling is ok if it gives a minority something free or an upper hand that they have not earned, but it is racist if it is to savor and protect this country.

The hypocrisy is funny, isn't it?

 

[chucky2]

The first thing we have to do is increase the people guarding the boader, build a fence if thats what it takes. At the same time we need to create a system so employers can easily check a workers credintials and pass some harsh laws that punish employers who knowingly hire illegals.

Once we have the influx of illegals coming into this country under control then we can look at amnesty, green cards, changing the imiigration laws, etc.

The only thing that is going to stop illegal immigrants coming in from Mexico is a militarized border in which we actually kill anyone crossing it that doesn't have a transponder/is known to be OK.

Nothing short of that will be effective enough on stopping the flow.

The real question is: Is America ready to see the affects of that policy in the news? Are they ready to see charred bodies of women and kids all torn up?

Because that is what is going to be pushed into the media both for ratings, and for political reasons (to stop the militarization of the border).

If a sufficient majority of Americans cannot stomach that, then the politicians will never allow it to happen, as it'd mean no re-election for them.

Chuck

 

[Nemesis 1]

A lot of people here are saying that the government should just fine the employers for employing illegals. My problem with this is that your asking the government to police thousands and thousands of business owners. Why create all this extra work and spend all this money on agents to police the people harboring illegals? Wouldnt it be so much easier to just prevent the illegals from entering the country to begin with?

No it wouldn't take alot to police them at all co workers will turn them in.

 

[Nemesis 1]

The only thing that is going to stop illegal immigrants coming in from Mexico is a militarized border in which we actually kill anyone crossing it that doesn't have a transponder/is known to be OK.

Nothing short of that will be effective enough on stopping the flow.

The real question is: Is America ready to see the affects of that policy in the news? Are they ready to see charred bodies of women and kids all torn up?

Because that is what is going to be pushed into the media both for ratings, and for political reasons (to stop the militarization of the border).

If a sufficient majority of Americans cannot stomach that, then the politicians will never allow it to happen, as it'd mean no re-election for them.

Chuck

Yes I said the same . But what about morals ?

 

[MrEgo]

It bothers me how many people are in a stir over the potential racial profiling impact. Racial profiling is ok if it gives a minority something free or an upper hand that they have not earned, but it is racist if it is to savor and protect this country.

This is a good point.

 

[MrEgo]

No it wouldn't take alot to police them at all co workers will turn them in.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Disgruntled workers may blow the whistle on their employers, or the authorities will get wind of it some way or another. I don't imagine it would be necessary to have someone go business to business and ask all employees for their identification.

That, and a lot of businesses would be too afraid to hire illegals if the penalties were steep enough.

 

[chucky2]

Yes I said the same . But what about morals ?

We have morals: Go through our immigration process legally.

Also, if we were to implement a militarization of our border, we'd obviously have to install water (and possibly food) stations. We'd have to have written and audible warning signs. We'd have to work and/or not work to 'get the word out' to those in Mexico (whether Mexican or using Mexico as an entry point) not to cross the border or you run a high risk of being killed/wounded.

So we'd basically have to go (and spend $$,$$$,$$$ on) jumping through hoops so as to give those trying to illegally enter the US every opportunity to cease their illegal activity before we either detained them, or, stopped them by force.

Either way, it's up to them. We should be proactively reactionary to their bad (to us) decisions.

Chuck

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Does anyone have the bill or act or whatever of the original federal immigration law that covers this?

 

[blackangst1]

Maybe I was assuming too much, but you seemed to think that it's just as easy for a Mexican to immigrate as, say, a Frenchman. I'm saying that it is not. I make no judgment as to the fairness of the system.

You would need statistics showing the percentage of Mexican applicants accepted per year, versus the percentage of French applicants accepted per year to prove it either way. I'd bet that you'd find a LOT more Mexican applicants than French applicants, and a much higher percentage of French applicants accepted than Mexican applicants accepted.

Then go find the info. Its public. I personally dont care. Im not sure what your point or reason for needing this is, but its there. Im curious why you would think we would find a higher percentage of, say, french, than Mexicans? And, more importantly, why it matters? We have quotas, and Mexico benefits the most from them because theyre allocated a higher number so that will skew your research. But the fact is, Mexicans get more visas then the number 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7th countries combined. I believe alot of that has to do with NAFTA, and frankly, I think its unfair. Thats severely disproportioned. Mexicans have in no way a right to a visa than, say, a filipino. Or a Thai. Or a Czech. Yet, they get the lion's share of visas.

Actually, I think Dlerium brought up some good points about the potential for abuse, and I'll have to think about those for a bit before making a judgment.

Dont most laws have potential for abuse? I mean, you could get picked up, arrested, tried, convicted, and excecuted for a murder you didnt commit. So should we then say murder is legal because theres room for abuse?

I'm just stating that as long as people have an incentive to come here that outweighs the risks, people are going to illegally immigrate. Just an statement of fact, that's all.

Fine. But the fact is, we dont have room for everyone that wants to come here. Thats the bottom line. WhipperSnapper has gone into more detail into this reason than I have, so you can read his reponses. But, we just cant bring in everyone willey nilley. Tough shit.

 

[her209]

Does anyone have the bill or act or whatever of the original federal immigration law that covers this?

I've been trying to locate the original text of the federal law and have been unsuccessful to date. First place I looked was in the IIRIRA of 1996. I'm interested in this as well. Maybe the people who claim the AZ bill mimics federal law can post the text.

 

[blackangst1]

The only thing that is going to stop illegal immigrants coming in from Mexico is a militarized border in which we actually kill anyone crossing it that doesn't have a transponder/is known to be OK.

Nothing short of that will be effective enough on stopping the flow.

The real question is: Is America ready to see the affects of that policy in the news? Are they ready to see charred bodies of women and kids all torn up?

Because that is what is going to be pushed into the media both for ratings, and for political reasons (to stop the militarization of the border).

If a sufficient majority of Americans cannot stomach that, then the politicians will never allow it to happen, as it'd mean no re-election for them.

Chuck

I am. Im sick of seeing Americans affected by Mexican gang activity in Phoenix. Im sick of seeing shootouts and American cops getting killed by auto weapon holding drug smugglers. Im sick of drop houses filled with a dozen 14 year old SE Asian girls being found. Im sick of cars getting bombed with molitov cocktails. Im sick of reading of yet another illegal pedophile raping an American 7 year old. And thats an average 2 weeks worth of news here.

Im fucking sick of it. Shoot em all. Sure. Theres many who want to "come here and make a living for their family". But the amount of crime their compadres commit in Phoenix outweighs it. Fuck em.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I've been trying to locate the original text of the federal law and have been unsuccessful to date. First place I looked was in the IIRIRA of 1996. I'm interested in this as well. Maybe the people who claim the AZ bill mimics federal law can post the text.

I didn't look for the law but lets cap some things off .

1) You had to learn english and understand our system and laws. You have to come into a PORT. You were tested. Befor citizenship

For hispanics we bent over backwards . Don't need to know english or law or the system NO testing . Look at all our products that also have Hispanic instruction . Were is the german russian Vietnamesse instructions ect ect ect . These people are being let in to undermine the rest of us . All peoples and cultures. Its racism by the government for the Government . Screw big business . I know how to combat it . But don't have the stomach for it . I was even preparing at one time but seems its useless.

 

[blackangst1]

I've been trying to locate the original text of the federal law and have been unsuccessful to date. First place I looked was in the IIRIRA of 1996. I'm interested in this as well. Maybe the people who claim the AZ bill mimics federal law can post the text.

Are you looking for something specific?

 

[blackangst1]

Does anyone have the bill or act or whatever of the original federal immigration law that covers this?

That covers what? The requirement to carry your papers?

 

[blackangst1]

How about I cover what I think DLeRium and her209 are probably looking for.

Read this: http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...islation-courtesy-of-numbers-usa/blog-312315/

Reality vs. Myth: SB 1070

Myth No. 1: The law requires aliens to carry identification that they weren't already required to carry.
Reality: On the contrary, the law simply penalizes aliens who fail to carry the registration documents that federal law already requires them to keep on their person. These federal crimes (8 United States Code Section 1304(a) or 1306(e)) have been around since 1940. The Arizona law simply adds a layer of state penalty to what already was a crime under federal law.
The SB1070 provision in question reads:
"For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state . . . where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person."
The majority requests for documentation will take place during the course of other police business. As for U.S. citizens, the law does not require them to carry any identification whatsoever. Indeed, the law cannot possibly be applied against U.S. citizens; only an alien can be found guilty under the Arizona statute. (See News Hour clip 3:45 seconds in)

Myth No. 2: The law will encourage racial profiling.
Reality: The terms of the act make clear that such profiling cannot occur. Section 2 provides that a law enforcement official "may not solely consider race, color, or national origin" in making any stops or determining an alien's immigration status. In addition, all of the normal Fourth Amendment protections against racial profiling still apply.
Moreover, the law actually reduces the likelihood of racial profiling by forcing police officers to contact the federal government to verify a person's immigration status when they suspect a person is an illegal alien. It already was permissible for police officers across the country to make arrests for violations of federal immigration law where reasonable suspicion existed that a violation had occurred. Now, in Arizona, officers will have to make a phone call to Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) 24/7 hot line to confirm that any aliens in their custody really are present unlawfully. Officers can no longer proceed based solely on their own assessment of a person's immigration status. In this way, the Arizona law takes any consideration of race out of the equation - strengthening the protections against racial profiling.

Myth No. 3: The law will require Arizona police officers to stop and question people.
Reality: Here again, critics of the law are failing to read it carefully. The law only kicks in when a police officer already has made a "lawful contact" with a person, such as stopping him for breaking another law. The most likely contact is during the issuance of a speeding ticket. The law does not require the officer to begin questioning a person about his immigration status or to do anything the officer would not otherwise do.
Only after a stop is made, and subsequently the officer develops reasonable suspicion on his own that an immigration law has been violated, is any obligation imposed. At that point, the officer is required to call ICE to confirm whether the person is an illegal alien.
The Arizona law is actually more restrictive than federal law. In Muehler v. Mena (2005), the Supreme Court ruled that officers did not need reasonable suspicion to justify asking a suspect about their immigration status, stating that the court has “held repeatedly that mere police questioning does not constitute a seizure” under the Fourth Amendment).

 

[nobodyknows]

The only thing that is going to stop illegal immigrants coming in from Mexico is a militarized border in which we actually kill anyone crossing it that doesn't have a transponder/is known to be OK.

Nothing short of that will be effective enough on stopping the flow.

The real question is: Is America ready to see the affects of that policy in the news? Are they ready to see charred bodies of women and kids all torn up?

Because that is what is going to be pushed into the media both for ratings, and for political reasons (to stop the militarization of the border).

If a sufficient majority of Americans cannot stomach that, then the politicians will never allow it to happen, as it'd mean no re-election for them.

Chuck

You know if you say "Stop or I'll shoot", I'm willing to bet money that most would stop. Then we take them into custody and either put them to work building "the wall" or ship them back to Mexico City so they have a long walk and plenty of time to think about if it's worth doing again.

 

[chucky2]

I am. Im sick of seeing Americans affected by Mexican gang activity in Phoenix. Im sick of seeing shootouts and American cops getting killed by auto weapon holding drug smugglers. Im sick of drop houses filled with a dozen 14 year old SE Asian girls being found. Im sick of cars getting bombed with molitov cocktails. Im sick of reading of yet another illegal pedophile raping an American 7 year old. And thats an average 2 weeks worth of news here.

Im fucking sick of it. Shoot em all. Sure. Theres many who want to "come here and make a living for their family". But the amount of crime their compadres commit in Phoenix outweighs it. Fuck em.

I'm with you, I think we should close down all our EU bases, and take those military units and plunk them right down on our southern borders, along with a sh1tload of drones and water/food stations so those reaching them can turn back around and not perish.

If they don't, and we don't have a unit to detain them, have a Predator destroy them.

It should not take long before they realize that we're done F'ing around on this, and to either start going through our immigration process, or, gasp, make their own country better.

But, the American as a voting majority will not stomach that (look at what happened with that woman and her kid a couple/few years back, holed up in a church), so the Fed politicians will never do it.

It's only at the state level - and of course the states that are affected the most and aren't rabidly liberal like CA - that are going to do something about it.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

You know if you say "Stop or I'll shoot", I'm willing to bet money that most would stop. Then we take them into custody and either put them to work building "the wall" or ship them back to Mexico City so they have a long walk and plenty of time to think about if it's worth doing again.

Sure, if they know we will actually shoot if they don't stop.

But, if we don't, then they'll just keep right on walking. Get caught now? No big deal. Just get shipped back across and try again next week.

Build a wall? Never happen. Ship them back to Mexico? They'll just cross again.

Chuck