Alternative Facts

[nickqt]

Rather than worrying about how incorrect Strongman Trump was, perhaps we should question what kind of president is that fixated on appearing to be the super ultra mega bestiest at everything.

 

[Jhhnn]

Rather than worrying about how incorrect Strongman Trump was, perhaps we should question what kind of president is that fixated on appearing to be the super ultra mega bestiest at everything.

He's a man unfit to be president. I remember some woman going on about that...

 

[soundforbjt]

He's a man unfit to be president. I remember some woman going on about that...

Conway while working for Cruz?

 

[Jhhnn]

Conway while working for Cruz?

Her too, yes.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

100% agree! They screwed up. But that's a far cry from saying they were deliberately lying. Surely you see this.

True, its not like Trump and his camp have a track record of deliberately lying. Clearly given their history they deserve our trust.

 

[BoomerD]

True, its not like Trump and his camp have a track record of deliberately lying. Clearly given their history they deserve our trust.

In Don We Trust?

 

[MongGrel]

I agree that this should never have been brought up. He's not a career politician and he's going to have to learn the hard way on just how the game is played.

Trump was well aware of the crowd size, the amount of Hubris and reactions to every little slight is already ridiculous.

100% agree! They screwed up. But that's a far cry from saying they were deliberately lying. Surely you see this.

BS, it's still amazing you think otherwise.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Alternative facts are going to make America Great Again.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Conway while working for Cruz?

:awe:
:thumbsup:

 

[TeeJay1952]

Alternative facts are going to make America Great Again.

That is certainly an Alternative Fact!

 

[Thebobo]

Just heard a reporter use the phrase "the L word" so sad that we so PC or afraid to just say word Lie these days. At least the NYT had some balls.

 

[zinfamous]

Just heard a reporter use the phrase "the L word" so sad that we so PC or afraid to just say word Lie these days. At least the NYT had some balls.

I'm fine with journalists not using lie. "Lie" implies intent. Unless the journalist can read their subject's mind, or extract a direct confession of intent, then you can't honestly report that what is very likely a lie, is a lie.

"False" really is just as good.

 

[Thebobo]

I'm fine with journalists not using lie. "Lie" implies intent. Unless the journalist can read their subject's mind, or extract a direct confession of intent, then you can't honestly report that what is very likely a lie, is a lie.

"False" really is just as good.

As far as Journalist I can see them being cautious. But Trump, he lies all the time and the absurd claims about the inaugural numbers were a lie and there was an intent to lie. Unless you are Stevie wonder no one looking at the pictures would ever say he had more numbers on the mall. I don't recall Trump using falsehood but he dies calls folks liers all the time. I love the latest " I'm an environmentalist" lol no he's not.

 

[nickqt]

I'm fine with journalists not using lie. "Lie" implies intent. Unless the journalist can read their subject's mind, or extract a direct confession of intent, then you can't honestly report that what is very likely a lie, is a lie.

"False" really is just as good.

False and lie are two different things, and lying does imply intent.

How do you find intent to determine whether something is a lie, or just false?

1. Would a minimum amount of fact checking show the statement to be false?

2. Has the statement been pointed out to be false on multiple occasions?

3. Does the person continue using the false statement after it has been pointed out to be false on multiple occasions?

4. Does the entire argument behind the false statement crumble if it is acknowledged to be a false statement?

Then it's a lie, and not just an "oops, I didn't know" false statement.

 

[jonks]

I'm fine with journalists not using lie. "Lie" implies intent. Unless the journalist can read their subject's mind, or extract a direct confession of intent, then you can't honestly report that what is very likely a lie, is a lie.

"False" really is just as good.

In a court of law, intent may be inferred from circumstances. I have no problem with the press using the word 'lie' in limited fashion where the circumstances are so black and white that no other reasonable interpretation is possible. I think the photographs of the mall fit that bill. As to euphemisms like 'false' or 'without evidence', etc., they don't have the same impact any more than 'civil union' did. That said, it should be used sparingly. And it's easy enough to avoid if the subject simply states that it's their opinion. "I believe 5 million illegal aliens voted" may be an uninformed opinion that doesn't comport with the facts, but beliefs are not statements of fact. I wouldn't call that a lie unless it was asserted to be a fact. Which I believe it actually was before they rolled it back to a "belief".

 

[Jhhnn]

In a court of law, intent may be inferred from circumstances. I have no problem with the press using the word 'lie' in limited fashion where the circumstances are so black and white that no other reasonable interpretation is possible. I think the photographs of the mall fit that bill. As to euphemisms like 'false' or 'without evidence', etc., they don't have the same impact any more than 'civil union' did. That said, it should be used sparingly. And it's easy enough to avoid if the subject simply states that it's their opinion. "I believe 5 million illegal aliens voted" may be an uninformed opinion that doesn't comport with the facts, but beliefs are not statements of fact. I wouldn't call that a lie unless it was asserted to be a fact. Which I believe it actually was before they rolled it back to a "belief".

That kind of "belief" is really only acceptable in the realm of religion. Other than that, belief in contradiction of the facts is delusion. Trump mouthpieces can apparently get over better claiming he's crazy rather than untruthful.

What that says about America is disturbing, to say the least.