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Alleged desecration of the Quran/Koran @ Guantanamo

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Originally posted by: conjur
Who let the trolls out? Who? Who? Who? Who?
ahaha sigged

I'm no Bush hater, but I do think he's made huge mistakes in a)ignoring his intelligence service and b)lying to most his country about the presence of WMDs in Iraq. Then again, I guess it worked for him come election time, and it's not like he can win another mandate anyway..

So I guess he's actually not as dumb as he seems. haha
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
That's one. Thank you.

I'm still waiting for conjur to post links to the "many other links."
Only because you either can't read or are in denial. I just skimmed through this thread; I saw at least three other posts with relevent links (plus the one to which you just replied). One was the post by Conjur with several links.

You're like a child holding his hands over his eyes, hoping your vegetables will go away if you just pretend they aren't there. Sorry, you're out of luck. You've got crow to eat, and you can't just wish it away. Evade and duhvert all you want. It only undermines any remaining credibility you might have.
 
Originally posted by: BBond


Bush's lies are responsible for the deaths of now 1,630 U.S. troops.


Oh, and yes, Bush is responsible for the over 2,700 U.S. civilians who died on 9/11

Gotcha....Bush lied. Thousands died.:roll:


Topic Title: Alleged desecration of the Quran/Koran @ Guantanamo


Focus, if you can...

 
maybe if they actually followed some of the scriptures they profess. you know the part where some guy named jesus said something to the effect of; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. meaning if you treated others with respect, odds are they may respect you. we may never have had a 9/11 to not forget. and they wouldn't be burning our rag, and we wouldn't have to show our beligerance.

oh well, maybe it's just me. :disgust:
 
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Bush's lies are responsible for the deaths of now 1,630 U.S. troops.


Oh, and yes, Bush is responsible for the over 2,700 U.S. civilians who died on 9/11
Gotcha....Bush lied. Thousands died.:roll:


Topic Title: Alleged desecration of the Quran/Koran @ Guantanamo


Focus, if you can...
Good catch. I'm sure you'll want to call out Crimson as well for his off-topic duhversion (to which BBond was responding, indirectly).
 
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Bush's lies are responsible for the deaths of now 1,630 U.S. troops.


Oh, and yes, Bush is responsible for the over 2,700 U.S. civilians who died on 9/11
Gotcha....Bush lied. Thousands died.:roll:


Topic Title: Alleged desecration of the Quran/Koran @ Guantanamo


Focus, if you can...
Good catch. I'm sure you'll want to call out Crimson as well for his off-topic duhversion (to which BBond was responding, indirectly).
I have full confidence that he will.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Crimson
We should ask our POW's if the Islamic Radicals insulted the Bible at all.. Oh wait, thats right..we can't, THEY'RE DEAD.

Crimson,

AFAIK, there are no American POWs in Iraq. If you're referring to the now 1,630 Americans who have died in Iraq, you'll have to ask George W. Bush for his reasons for killing them.

Wow your right, I can't believe that Crimson fell into Bobnd's trap.

 
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Crimson
We should ask our POW's if the Islamic Radicals insulted the Bible at all.. Oh wait, thats right..we can't, THEY'RE DEAD.

Crimson,

AFAIK, there are no American POWs in Iraq. If you're referring to the now 1,630 Americans who have died in Iraq, you'll have to ask George W. Bush for his reasons for killing them.

Wow your right, I can't believe that Crimson fell into Bobnd's trap.
🙁 I was betting on you too.

 
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Crimson
We should ask our POW's if the Islamic Radicals insulted the Bible at all.. Oh wait, thats right..we can't, THEY'RE DEAD.

Crimson,

AFAIK, there are no American POWs in Iraq. If you're referring to the now 1,630 Americans who have died in Iraq, you'll have to ask George W. Bush for his reasons for killing them.

Wow your right, I can't believe that Crimson fell into Bobnd's trap.
🙁 I was betting on you too.
I have a message for you from another poster. Do you want it?
 
And yet another story unveiling the policies that were in place prior to the abuses being uncovered:


Lost history: The February 2002 Quran Guantanamo incident
http://rawstory.com/exclusives/lost_history_koran_incident_521
The stories of guards and interrogators flushing, stuffing, or dumping Korans in toilets may be forever dismissed as retracted allegations. There is, however, another instance of alleged Koran mishandling that has been far better substantiated, RAW STORY has learned.

The oft-overlooked incident, reported in February and March of 2002, concerns an incident of Quran abuse which is believed to have resulted in a formal policy by the United States regarding treatment of the Quran.

While it does not sound nearly as damning as the alleged toilet incident, it does raise an interesting question: Why has the mainstream media and the Pentagon virtually ignored the 2002 incident as a potential source for much of the current tension surrounding the treatment of the holy book?

The trackback begins with a May 17 Washington Post article in which Robin Wright describes strict rules for handling the Quran that the Pentagon insists have been in place for more than two years?that is, since before May 2003. As quoted by Wright, the policy sounds enlightened. It is very specific in directing personnel to handle the Quran in ways that signal care, respect, and reverence. It even specifies that the Quran should not be placed near toilets.

What seems peculiar is that such a specific policy should emerge out the blue a year after detainees began arriving at the camp. And, in fact, it did not emerge out of the blue?but followed at least one well-documented incident in which a Koran was mishandled.

Carol Rosenberg of the Miami Herald reported on Feb. 24, 2002 that a protest had begun at Guantanamo the previous Friday:
?Friday's episode occurred when a detainee thought an MP kicked a Koran, said army Lt. Col. Bill Costello. ?One started shouting, Allahu Akbar. So other detainees started shouting, Allahu Akbar.?? [Also: Rosenberg (Knight Ridder), ?Detainees test guards: Chants follow perceived slight to Koran by an MP,? The Gazette (Montreal), Feb. 24, 2002.]
Other permutations of the story asserted that the MP had indeed kicked the holy book, but mistakenly, during a surprise inspection?or had simply picked it up and dropped it. [Carol Rosenberg (Knight Ridder), ?Detainees at Gitmo Refusing to Eat,? Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Mar. 1, 2002; Andres Leighton, ?Tension rises at prison camp,? Associated Press, Mar. 2, 2002.]

Tensions mushroomed in the next week, culminating in a camp-wide hunger strike when a guard interrupted a detainee in prayer in order to forcibly remove the prisoner?s makeshift turban (while praying, the prisoner would not respond to verbal demands).

The hunger strike began Feb. 26, 2002. The following day, prisoners began to throw their gear over the camp?s fence. This prompted the commander of the camp, Marine Gen. Michael Lehnert, to address the prisoners and make some concessions. As reported by John Mintz of the Washington Post:
??The general told them they would be allowed to fashion the headdress but that we will still inspect them,? said Marine Maj. Stephen Cox, a camp spokesman. ?He said their religion would be respected, and we understand the sacred nature of the Koran.??
This incident has not disappeared entirely from the collective memory, but it has been watered down. Washington Post reporter Carol Leonnig recalls it in an May 18, 2005 story, but relegates it and the entire hunger strike to the realm of allegation. Leonig writes:
?James Yee, a former Muslim chaplain at the prison who was investigated and cleared of charges of mishandling classified material, has asserted that guards' mishandling and mistreatment of detainees' Korans led the prisoners to launch a hunger strike in March 2002. Detainee lawyers, attributing their information to an interrogator, have said the strike ended only when military leaders issued an apology to the detainees over the camp loudspeaker.?
Thus, the corroborating press work done in 2002 has disappeared?as have the confirming quotes by majors, colonels, and generals?to be replaced by the allegations of detainee lawyers and a besmirched former Muslim chaplain.
 
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
That's one. Thank you.

I'm still waiting for conjur to post links to the "many other links."
Only because you either can't read or are in denial. I just skimmed through this thread; I saw at least three other posts with relevent links (plus the one to which you just replied). One was the post by Conjur with several links.

You're like a child holding his hands over his eyes, hoping your vegetables will go away if you just pretend they aren't there. Sorry, you're out of luck. You've got crow to eat, and you can't just wish it away. Evade and duhvert all you want. It only undermines any remaining credibility you might have.

All I've seen is accusations by detainees and one case where a soldier was caught supposedly doing something to a Quran, though what he did we don't know because it's non-specific, and disciplined for it already. And these "documented" cases come from an organization that seems to make it its job to rag on the US admin, much like the lackey majority in here.

But keep trying to duhvert from the fact that the Newsweek story was bogus.

Newsweek lied, people died. Right? Isn't that what it's all about with you folks - lies and the subsequent deaths from those lies? Yet somehow, Newsweek gets a pass from the same hypocrites that rag Bush incessantly for the same thing.

You've exposed yourselves once again for the hypocrites you are.
 
After reading the last few posts in this thread I went a search to finding what the fuss between conjur and tlc was about. After going through a few pages of this thread I saw what it was about and... I saw alot of links conjur and others posted which for some unexplainable reason tlc just doesnt seem to see.

tlc, are you legaly blind? or whats your excuse?
 
Originally posted by: Czar
After reading the last few posts in this thread I went a search to finding what the fuss between conjur and tlc was about. After going through a few pages of this thread I saw what it was about and... I saw alot of links conjur and others posted which for some unexplainable reason tlc just doesnt seem to see.

tlc, are you legaly blind? or whats your excuse?
OK. Let's review:

Posts 1 through 20: No links to supposed desecration.

Posts 21 - 40: No links to descecration, except references to the bogus Newweek article.

Posts 41 - 60: No links to desecration, but a retraction by Newsweek and rampnat apologism and diversionary attempts by making up conspirotal BS by the usual suspects in here.

Post 61 - 80: One link from some site called "Rawstory". An "alternate" news site that will accept just about any schlock from anyone and comes off as lefty-Freepers. It contains links to other stories, most of which primarily contain statements by detainees about their "mistreatment." Boo-hoo. They didn't get real milk.

Posts 81 - 100: More excusery for the Newsweek faux pas by the usual suspects. conjur attempts to deflect by posting a number of links to detainee abuse. conjur posts another link to the very same claims (originating from the Washington Post story) by detainess of supposed abuses of the Koran. Basically a regurgitory post saying the same thing over again and a defensive move by those attepting to apologize for Newsweek by replaying old news.

Posts 101 - 120: More of the same stories citing the same old information that first came out in the Washington Post story. A news story citing the same old information doesn't make it new. It's just yet another regurgitation old news and a diversionary attempt to draw scrutiny away from Newsweek by the anti-US media.

Posts 121 - 140: No links. Only conjur's toadie chiming in.

Posts 141 - 160: BBond finally psots a single link to a story where some unspecified abuse of the Koran supposedly happened and the soldier was reprimanded for it. conjur's toadie once again chimes in. conjur ends the thread by posting another link from "Rawstory," admitting the other accusations are only allegations so they have to dig up an incident from 2002 that comes from...yep...the Washington Post article. Yet another regurgitation.

161 -163: You are here.

Now I don't see "many other documentated cases" as claimed. I see unsubstantiated accusations by detainees, most of which originate from a single story printed a while back by the Washington Post. So excuse me if I think conjur and his crew are still FOS.
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
What else is new??? Care to post any good rebuttal links?
A good rebuttal link has already been posted in here. It's Newsweek's retraction of their story.

I know Newsweek retracted their story, but aren't there are other reports of Koran abuse out there also? I don't think the Newsweek retraction proves anything except that they were wrong. It doesn't matter to me if they were mislead or not. Newsweek got it wrong and has been cited as a cause of the riots.

Were they the only cause, or were there other abuses also? I thought there was?
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
What else is new??? Care to post any good rebuttal links?
A good rebuttal link has already been posted in here. It's Newsweek's retraction of their story.

I know Newsweek retracted their story, but aren't there are other reports of Koran abuse out there also? I don't think the Newsweek retraction proves anything except that they were wrong. It doesn't matter to me if they were mislead or not. Newsweek got it wrong and has been cited as a cause of the riots.

Were they the only cause, or were there other abuses also? I thought there was?
There are allegations by detainees. Is there anything else besides those allegations? Is there anything absolutely proven. I'm not sure.

This all seems rather blown out of proportion to me and is a perfect example of overreaction. Saudi Arabia regularly confiscates and burns bibles. I don't see those viscious fundie Christians that everyone in here seems so worried about rasing hell, destroying property, and killing people over that fact.

This whole ordeal is so ignorant as not to even be worthy of attention. The Muslims involved in this seem to be worse than attention whores, imo, and are demostrating their fvcked up mindset perfectly clearly. Their behaviour is beyong pale. Yet we have people in this forum apparently excusing that behaviour to once again wag their fingers at the US. I don't know if the Muslims or their apologists are worse here, truthfully.
 
I think it is all blown out of proportion also. I think they are more upset about their occupation and are just using this as an excuse to get some more press. The press likes it because it sells newspapers.
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I think it is all blown out of proportion also. I think they are more upset about their occupation and are just using this as an excuse to get some more press. The press likes it because it sells newspapers.
Agreed, though I'm not sure about anger over the "occupation" part. I'm not sure Afghanistan could be considered occupied any longer.
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Czar
After reading the last few posts in this thread I went a search to finding what the fuss between conjur and tlc was about. After going through a few pages of this thread I saw what it was about and... I saw alot of links conjur and others posted which for some unexplainable reason tlc just doesnt seem to see.

tlc, are you legaly blind? or whats your excuse?
OK. Let's review:

Posts 1 through 20: No links to supposed desecration.

Posts 21 - 40: No links to descecration, except references to the bogus Newweek article.

Posts 41 - 60: No links to desecration, but a retraction by Newsweek and rampnat apologism and diversionary attempts by making up conspirotal BS by the usual suspects in here.

Post 61 - 80: One link from some site called "Rawstory". An "alternate" news site that will accept just about any schlock from anyone and comes off as lefty-Freepers. It contains links to other stories, most of which primarily contain statements by detainees about their "mistreatment." Boo-hoo. They didn't get real milk.

Posts 81 - 100: More excusery for the Newsweek faux pas by the usual suspects. conjur attempts to deflect by posting a number of links to detainee abuse. conjur posts another link to the very same claims (originating from the Washington Post story) by detainess of supposed abuses of the Koran. Basically a regurgitory post saying the same thing over again and a defensive move by those attepting to apologize for Newsweek by replaying old news.

Posts 101 - 120: More of the same stories citing the same old information that first came out in the Washington Post story. A news story citing the same old information doesn't make it new. It's just yet another regurgitation old news and a diversionary attempt to draw scrutiny away from Newsweek by the anti-US media.

Posts 121 - 140: No links. Only conjur's toadie chiming in.

Posts 141 - 160: BBond finally psots a single link to a story where some unspecified abuse of the Koran supposedly happened and the soldier was reprimanded for it. conjur's toadie once again chimes in. conjur ends the thread by posting another link from "Rawstory," admitting the other accusations are only allegations so they have to dig up an incident from 2002 that comes from...yep...the Washington Post article. Yet another regurgitation.

161 -163: You are here.

Now I don't see "many other documentated cases" as claimed. I see unsubstantiated accusations by detainees, most of which originate from a single story printed a while back by the Washington Post. So excuse me if I think conjur and his crew are still FOS.
Heh heh.

That should keep Czar busy for a couple of weeks. 😀
 
thats probably it, you dont belive it if the stories come from prisoners through the red cross or from former prisoners, only if it comes from the all mighty US government
 
I think that only a real idiot would believe that somewhere and at some time during this war, a soldier has not desecrated the Quran. Given the nature of Human beings and our culture, it has probably happened quite a few times,🙁 perhaps even at Gitmo.

The underlying issue here is the STUPID ASS FVCKING NOTION that this kind of action is condoned by the military leadership.

What I really would like to know, is what was the motivation to publish this news piece, if not to highlight that underlying issue?
 
Originally posted by: Ozoned
I think that only a real idiot would believe that somewhere and at some time during this war, a soldier has not desecrated the Quran. Given the nature of Human beings and our culture, it has probably happened quite a few times,🙁 perhaps even at Gitmo.

The underlying issue here is the STUPID ASS FVCKING NOTION that this kind of action is condoned by the military leadership.

What I really would like to know, is what was the motivation to publish this news piece, if not to highlight that underlying issue?

excelent point
 
Originally posted by: Czar
After reading the last few posts in this thread I went a search to finding what the fuss between conjur and tlc was about. After going through a few pages of this thread I saw what it was about and... I saw alot of links conjur and others posted which for some unexplainable reason tlc just doesnt seem to see.

tlc, are you legaly blind? or whats your excuse?
Well, we know our answer. He's an obtuse troll. Refusing to see the truth. Accepts the propaganda from the DoD and our gov't and completely dismisses corroborated claims from prisoners as well as statements from our own soldiers.
 
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