All The Visual C++ Installs On Steam?

[finglobes]

I was wondering what to do when I install a game on Steam and it wants to reinstall a Visual C++ version that is already installed? Do I keep going and let it install? Do I terminate the install of the Visual C++ in question?


I recently installed a steam game and it wanted to reinstall one of the 2005 versions again. I cancelled that install and the game still ran.

Right now I have (on Vista Ultimate) 4 versions of Visual C++ installed: 2005 ATL kb973923; 2005 Redistributable; 2008 Redistributable x86 9.0.3 and 2010 Redistributable 10.0


I was read its best to install all the C++ versions in order but thats all I read about it

Thanks

 

[Ross Ridge]

I was wondering what to do when I install a game on Steam and it wants to reinstall a Visual C++ version that is already installed? Do I keep going and let it install? Do I terminate the install of the Visual C++ in question?

You let it install, of course. If you have that specific Visual C++ runtime component already installed then the installer will end doing nothing. It won't overwrite a newer version with an older version or anything dumb like that.

 

[LumbergTech]

You let it install, of course. If you have that specific Visual C++ runtime component already installed then the installer will end doing nothing. It won't overwrite a newer version with an older version or anything dumb like that.

ya i dont get it

seems like it could do a version check and move beyond that shit
that goes for direct x too..its ridiculous how much time is wasted on game installs sometimes

 

[finglobes]

Thanks

 

[crownjules]

It is a time waster for sure. I also find that games I've had installed for a long time but haven't played for a few months might go through the installation process for this again when I go back to play them.

 

[Regs]

You have to figure the majority of people who play these games don't know. Just one less item the customer support has to worry about in steam land.

 

[you2]

I suspect it is the game that is doing the install not steam. Sort of like direct x- tons of game I install want to reinstall direct x.

 

[Mike Gayner]

For the <2 minutes it takes, why not just let it run?

 

[manimal]

imagine an alternate reality universe where steam doesnt do this for you..now imagine the doppelganger version of this thread where simpletons bemoan the fact that half the games dont work....


steam...saving the universe from troubleshooting installations...

 

[CraigRT]

For the <2 minutes it takes, why not just let it run?

It's a legit question. I bought a lot of games on Steam and every one I installed wanted to run what looked to be the exact same thing. It's dumb.

 

[Demo24]

A lot of this stuff would install anyway through a normal cd/dvd it's just largely hidden in the install setup. Has nothing really to do with steam as it has to do with the install files given to valve from the publisher.

 

[Anteaus]

I think they just run it as standard practive for most installs to prevent potential problems. For the cost of a couple extra minutes you can be potentially be saved the frustration of having a problem with your software. I agree its probably usually a waste of time but then again you never know.

 

[Ross Ridge]

It's a legit question. I bought a lot of games on Steam and every one I installed wanted to run what looked to be the exact same thing. It's dumb.

Well, look at this way, who do you want messing around with files in your system folder? Microsoft, the game company or Valve? Microsoft doesn't give them the option anyways, the licence requirements for Visual C++ requires that they use Microsoft's installer. That's done for a very good reason, a lot of third party installers in the past have screwed this up and put DLLs in the wrong place or over written newer DLLs with older ones. Valve and the game company wisely choose to leave everything to the Microsoft installer. It will figure out whether you need that particular version of the Visual C++ runtime installed, and install it correctly if so, and do nothing if not. With side by side assemblies and WOW64 it's not a easy you might think to figure this all out.

Thanks to those side by side assemblies and WOW64, my computer has eight seperate versions of the Visual C++ 2008 runtime installed. Three 64-bit ones, and five 32-bit ones. There's also five 2005 runtimes and two for 2010 edition of the compiler. For each of these fifteen runtimes there's at least one game or other application on my machine that presumably wouldn't work without out them. You can't really tell from the "Installing Visual C++ 20xx Runtime..." message that flashes on your screen if you really needed that particular version installed or not.

For DirectX installs there's about 150 different optional components that a game can bundle with the DirectX installer. Games generally only include the components they actually use, otherwise the installer would be over 100MB. It's not at all unlikely that almost every DirectX install that you've seen happen under Steam was necessary to install some DirectX component you didn't already have on your machine.

Seriously, be happy it works this way. Companies don't usually have their best programmers writting installers. The easier Microsoft makes it for them, the better.

 

[finglobes]

Seriously, be happy it works this way. Companies don't usually have their best programmers writting installers. The easier Microsoft makes it for them, the better.

I don't mind the installs per se. I mostly wonder if there is any truth to the idea that the installs need to be made in order (I read that looking up this situation). If my first install of a 2005 C++ version is an updated one - does it matter if a latter version that is installed is not updated or patched etc? I've tried to install things in order but its turned out there are a lot more versions of these C++ installs than what I expected and I cant even tell how they stack chronologically because they use different names.


Whenever I install or re-install an OS on a computer I never seem to have issues until I start installing games. The I start getting weird things like finding my CPU stuck at 100% with Explorer hanging. I can't say its the C++ thing specifically but I have waited weeks to install games and things like Sony Vegas that use C++ just to see if there was any relation to the hangs and there seems to be just based on casual impressions.

 

[Ross Ridge]

I don't mind the installs per se. I mostly wonder if there is any truth to the idea that the installs need to be made in order (I read that looking up this situation). If my first install of a 2005 C++ version is an updated one - does it matter if a latter version that is installed is not updated or patched etc?

No the order doesn't matter. Each version of the Visual C++ runtime stands on it's own and doesn't need any previous versions installed to work. Depending on the circumstances, the installer will either install a completely new version of the runtime beside any existing versions of the runtime, completely replace an old version of the runtime with a newer version, or do nothing.

For the 2005 and 2008 runtimes Microsoft released a number of different versions of the runtime for various reasons. Some of them added new features or changed behaviours, these are only ment to be used with applications and games that were compiled to use them. These get installed beside any existing runtimes as a side-by-side assembly. Others were critical bug fix releases. These are ment to completely replace older buggy runtimes. If the old buggy runtime isn't installed already, it will just install itself normally. If there's a newer runtime already installed that itself is a bug fix for the bug fix release being installed, then the installer will do nothing. Like I said, it's all very complicated.

Unfortunately, yes, installing a new version of the Visual C++ runtime can break existing applications. I've never heard of a game install causing this problem, and doing the installs in a different order won't fix the problem. You'll still end with the same set of runtime versions, the same exact files, installed regardless of what order you install them. Generally the only fix is either to uninstall the offending runtime (which may be hard to identify, and break the application that installed it) or wait for Microsoft to release fix. Microsoft SQL Express 2008 installed a version of the runtime that broke ATI's Catalyst installer, and Sony's Media Go installed a version that broke the monitoring application of my printer driver.

The hangs you mention don't sound like Visual C++ runtime issues, which generally cause crashes instead. Explorer in particular, like any standard Windows component, doesn't use any of the Visual C++ runtimes, it uses the system C++ runtime (a variant of the old Visual C++ 6 runtime.)

 

[finglobes]

Thanks - next time I install OS I'll add things slow over time and see if anything stands out. I take it the Event Viewer doesn't show things that hang vs crashing?

 

[Fox5]

Well, look at this way, who do you want messing around with files in your system folder? Microsoft, the game company or Valve? Microsoft doesn't give them the option anyways, the licence requirements for Visual C++ requires that they use Microsoft's installer. That's done for a very good reason, a lot of third party installers in the past have screwed this up and put DLLs in the wrong place or over written newer DLLs with older ones. Valve and the game company wisely choose to leave everything to the Microsoft installer. It will figure out whether you need that particular version of the Visual C++ runtime installed, and install it correctly if so, and do nothing if not. With side by side assemblies and WOW64 it's not a easy you might think to figure this all out.

Thanks to those side by side assemblies and WOW64, my computer has eight seperate versions of the Visual C++ 2008 runtime installed. Three 64-bit ones, and five 32-bit ones. There's also five 2005 runtimes and two for 2010 edition of the compiler. For each of these fifteen runtimes there's at least one game or other application on my machine that presumably wouldn't work without out them. You can't really tell from the "Installing Visual C++ 20xx Runtime..." message that flashes on your screen if you really needed that particular version installed or not.

For DirectX installs there's about 150 different optional components that a game can bundle with the DirectX installer. Games generally only include the components they actually use, otherwise the installer would be over 100MB. It's not at all unlikely that almost every DirectX install that you've seen happen under Steam was necessary to install some DirectX component you didn't already have on your machine.

Seriously, be happy it works this way. Companies don't usually have their best programmers writting installers. The easier Microsoft makes it for them, the better.

I wish Microsoft would implement a package manager system like Linux has. When a program installs, it does a quick check to see if the required dependencies are listed as installed, if not it grabs them.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Or sees that it's already installed then quietly exits.

 

[Ross Ridge]

Thanks - next time I install OS I'll add things slow over time and see if anything stands out. I take it the Event Viewer doesn't show things that hang vs crashing?

On Windows 7, and I think Vista was well, you can look at the reliabilty history (Control Panel -> Action Center -> Maintainance -> View Reliabilty History). It shows both when applications hang and crash, and when stuff got installed. You can use it to find out when things stopped working and then look earlier in the history to see what changed that might have caused it.

 

[Elixer]

For the <2 minutes it takes, why not just let it run?

I ran into this the other day, it doesn't take under 2 mins, more like 10-15 mins.
One of these days, I will look and see what the heck it is doing for that long of a time.

Of course, I can fix that time by doing a clean reinstall of the OS, but that would require installing tons of things again.

 

[Mike Gayner]

I ran into this the other day, it doesn't take under 2 mins, more like 10-15 mins.
One of these days, I will look and see what the heck it is doing for that long of a time.

Of course, I can fix that time by doing a clean reinstall of the OS, but that would require installing tons of things again.

It has never taken that long for me.