All of you chain restaurant haters have no idea!

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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Chains offer consistency and predictability. Sometimes people really want to know what they are getting into, especially when travelling. Chains fill this need. Once restaurants figured this out, chains took off.

Of course, nowadays you've got yelp, so it's much less of a crap shoot trying out a mom & pop shop.

Yep, that's exaclty when I go to chains.

Ever watch the Gordon Ramsey show where he helps fix troubled restaurants? D@mn, the level of nastiness in some freezers is beyond belief. I don't want to risk being served that kind of crap at unfamiliar restaurant while out-of-town.

Fern
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
8,201
3,619
136
There's an article in the Strib today about the best burgers in the Twin Cities, did you read that?
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,911
5,012
136
I find it hard to believe in a well-educated, prosperous metro area of three and a quarter million that you can't find interesting, well prepared food from all sorts of styles and ethnicities.

You can. Easily.

OP and Bober must live in the 'burbs. Mpls/St Paul has some of the best and most diverse dining in the country.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
I heart Cheesecake Factory forever and ever for their variety, taste, and size of dishes. There's a reason they have an hour wait even on weekdays. And we're in NY with plenty of options.

BTW, Pizza Hut used to be good until they got healthy. If it has to be a chain pizza, it's Papa Johns.
 
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bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
I heart Cheesecake Factory forever and ever for their variety, taste, and size of dishes. There's a reason they have an hour wait even on weekdays. And we're in NY with plenty of options.

BTW, Pizza Hut used to be good until they got healthy. If it has to be a chain pizza, it's Papa Johns.

My local pizzeria prepares their pizza dough right in front of me (absent of cellulose) with five main ingredients: water, flour, salt, yeast and olive oil, also homemade mozzarella with plum tomato sauce seasoned with garlic and fresh garden herbs.

Pizza Hut, Dominos and Papa John's pizzas contain a good percentage of wood pulp.

In fact, Papa John's doesn't want consumers knowing what's in their food, and they aren't alone.

What Papa John's doesn't want you to know about their food
http://news.yahoo.com/papa-johns-doesnt-want-know-food-194013379.html

Food companies understand that Americans are increasingly interested in buying food that actually seems worth eating. We want food that's some degree of fresh, healthy, natural or otherwise of higher quality. It's for this reason that you see images of plump fruit decorating packages of cereal bars and the greenest broccoli you've ever laid eyes upon appearing on boxes of frozen dinners. At Burger King, you don't order a mere salad - it's a Chicken Caesar Garden Fresh Salad. Those chips aren't just cheese-flavored - they're Harvest Cheddar Sun Chips, with "harvest cheddar" an entirely meaningless term.

Few companies have applied this appeal more literally than Papa John's, which for years has boasted "Better pizza. Better ingredients." Printed on every Papa John's pizza box is a little story: "When I founded Papa John's in 1984, my mission was to build a better pizza," says "Papa" John Schnatter. "I went the extra mile to ensure we used the highest quality ingredients available - like fresh, never frozen original dough, all-natural sauce, veggies sliced fresh daily and 100 percent real beef and pork. We think you'll taste the difference."

After all, who wouldn't want fresher, better ingredients in their pizza? A great deal of the food we currently eat, both from the supermarket and at chain restaurants, is comprised of ingredients created as cheaply as possible (tomatoes chosen for their shipability, not flavor; chicken as bland as a pizza box because the bird only lived for 10 weeks and ate a monotonous diet) and highly processed additives, many of them not even technically edible.

So you'd think if Papa John's was really following a different model, they'd want to tell us all about it. Too bad they don't. Those "better ingredients": Good luck finding out what they are. Unlike the packaged products you buy at the supermarket, restaurant food isn't required to list ingredients. Many fast food chains, like McDonald's, Taco Bell and Subway, do voluntarily provide them, in part for indemnity against lawsuits and in part because they realize some of their customers actually want to know what they're eating.

But not Papa John's. They've decided it's better to keep their ingredients a secret. You won't find complete information about them on either the company's website or in stores. Charlie, the friendly and accommodating employee who took my order for a small cheese pizza at my local Papa John's in Boulder, Colo., told me that he didn't know what the pizza ingredients were. "I think they're listed on the website," he said, making a reasonable assumption.

When I called Papa John's customer toll free number, I was told that for "additional information on allergen or nutritional info" I should leave a message with Connie Childs, who would return my call the next business day. I left two messages, but Connie never called. Public relations wasn't much help either. My emails and voicemails went unanswered. Only Charlie offered a few thoughts about what exactly makes Papa John's pizza "better."

"We get deliveries in every three days, so nothing that's in the fridge is more than a few days old. And we form the dough here. It doesn't come ready to go, though it is made in a central facility and then frozen," he said, offering a slightly different version of the story than what's printed on the pizza boxes.

Maybe Papa John's doesn't use chemical dough conditioners in their pizza dough, corn syrup or sugar in the sauce, or preservatives in the meat toppings. Maybe they go the extra mile to make a high-quality pizza that's as close to homemade as possible. Although the fact that Papa John's garlic sauce, which comes in little packages, is made with a slew of additives - mono and diglycerides, partially hydrogenated soybean oil and the preservatives sodium benzoate and calcium disodium EDTA - does not inspire confidence.

By not disclosing what's in its food, Papa John's is revealing that it doesn't think too much of its customers. It is either asking customers for blind trust or assuming people are too stupid and complacent to ask questions. When we do ask questions, they refuse to answer. At least that was my experience, both when I approached Papa John's as a journalist and a customer. This strikes me as a foolish approach in an age when American eaters are demanding more transparency (see GMO labeling) when it comes to food, not less. For some reason, Papa John's has failed to realize that when you hoist your entire brand up on the idea of high-quality food, you'd better be able to back it up.

While Papa John's is the most egregious example of this marketing mendacity, they're hardly alone. Olive Garden wants you to believe that eating at one of their restaurants means you're getting authentic Italian cuisine. Many of its "chefs" have been trained at the company's Culinary Institute of Tuscany, located, we are told, in a "quaint 11th century Tuscan village." But Italian cuisine is notoriously fresh, individually prepared and lacking in shortcuts. Are Olive Garden's offerings anything close to this? They, too, won't tell you. The allergen chart on the website, though, reveals that there's soy in the meat sauce and chicken parm, suggesting that Olive Garden's specialties are closer to Chef Boyardee than something Benedetta Vitali came up with. Applebee's, Cheesecake Factory, Chili's and TGIF's are some of the other sit-down chains that also won't tell you what's in their food.

Given how dramatically food production has changed in the last half century, Americans deserve to know what they're eating. That's the impetus behind the growing public support for the labeling of GMOs. Even those who are OK with eating genetically modified corn or soy still would like to know about it.

Chipotle has done a great job with this sort of transparency. The company details its policy against buying meat raised with antibiotics, arsenic and growth hormones, and it's been open about its attempts to source locally-grown food. In other words, they don't just say "better ingredients" and leave it at that. They also publish their ingredients, so that customers can decide for themselves whether Chipotle really sells "food with integrity." Anything less would be nothing more than marketing hype.
 

HTFOff

Golden Member
Oct 3, 2013
1,292
56
91
"Haha John's" pizza is terrible. Remember those pizza lunchables with the sauce packet? Haha john's sauce taste just like that.

Whenever I hear "better ingrediants, better pizza, haha john's" - that's taunting. Flagrant taunting.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
Gotsmack has issues. If you can't find great non chain food in Minneapolis, you don't know what good food is or , you haven't left your basement. All old large cities have great food, lots of variety and, good eats at all price levels. OP, you fail at life.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
There's an article in the Strib today about the best burgers in the Twin Cities, did you read that?

No, I don't eat burgers unless they grind their own meat in house from whole muscle. The only place I know of (not that I really ask at every place) that does that is Icehouse.

You can. Easily.

OP and Bober must live in the 'burbs. Mpls/St Paul has some of the best and most diverse dining in the country.

I'm in Bloomington so kind of in the burbs, but not that far out where it would be a hassle to go somewhere to eat. I eat out once a week.

Here is my list of GREAT food in the twin cities:

Restaurants:
1. Icehouse
2. Meritage

Bakery:
1. Rustica

Pizza:
1. Punch

BBQ Ribs and Chicken:
The Smokin' Oak Rotisserie & Grill in Redwing


Send me any ideas and I'll report back on what I thought of it. I have been wanting to try Travail though.
 
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gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
Gotsmack has issues. If you can't find great non chain food in Minneapolis, you don't know what good food is or , you haven't left your basement. All old large cities have great food, lots of variety and, good eats at all price levels. OP, you fail at life.

I know you cook or have cooked for a living and I respect that, but you didn't move to Minneapolis, MN or Dayton, OH from the NYC area. I hang out with other transplants from the NYC area here in Minneapolis and one of the old timers that has been here for 30 years told me that compared with 30 years ago when he moved here Minneapolis is now a culinary mecca.

Minneapolis does have a few VERY good restaurants that would 100% make it in Manhattan assuming they have competent management. One of them (Icehouse) I'm confident would even receive 1 Michelin Star (or at least be named on their Bib Gourmand list).

I was only in Dayton, OH for 2 weeks and I found 1 pizza place that I liked. As it turns out, the 2 or 3 store mini-chain was opened by 2 brothers from Brooklyn. The place is called Flying Pizza.

I found 1 decent middle eastern kebab and rice place and 1 decent french american place. The rest was a decent chain place I've never been to and a few decent to bad mom and pop shops.

Getting back to Minneapolis, just to prove my point if you check out the Chowhound forums you'll see that there is only 1 or sometimes 2 good Chinese restaurants here, depending on if the cook is still there. My friend from Portland loves Chinese food and he has eaten at every Chinese food place here and he doesn't think any of them are "Good" just a few places are decent. I've only had Chinese food 1 time here though, so I can't really comment, but I thought it was just OK. I am not surprised at my friend's opinion, since there aren't that many Chinese here. There are lots of Hmong here, but I don't like food from SE Asia. Too much coconut milk, which I don't like in my food.

Think about it this way, you're a new CIA grad an d you want to go work for a good restaurant. Where are you going to go? Minneapolis, Dayton, or to a tier 1 city?

Lets say you didn't go to culinary school and want to apprentice somewhere to learn the trade and are willing to travel. Where do you go to find a good chef to apprentice under? Minneapolis or a tier 1 city?
 
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Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
it sounds like you are the problem man, not the restaurants, with that kinda puffery


then again I marvel at my in laws that live in streetville, Chicago

and go to the same 4 places, constantly, makes my eyes want to bleed
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
O_O

Not sure if srs.

You don't get to count Yountville, Berkeley, Los Gatos, or any of the east/outer bay as part of SF. Same thing for DC, you can't count Inn at Little Washington as part of DC and apart from Rasika most of the other "best" DC restaurants like Minibar and Kom are a joke.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
You don't get to count Yountville, Berkeley, Los Gatos, or any of the east/outer bay as part of SF. Same thing for DC, you can't count Inn at Little Washington as part of DC and apart from Rasika most of the other "best" DC restaurants like Minibar and Kom are a joke.

Oh. Fair then.
 

NoTine42

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2013
1,387
78
91
I heart Cheesecake Factory forever and ever for their variety, taste, and size of dishes. There's a reason they have an hour wait even on weekdays. And we're in NY with plenty of options.

BTW, Pizza Hut used to be good until they got healthy. If it has to be a chain pizza, it's Papa Johns.

Since when did Pizza Hut get healthy? I can't go to Pizza Hut more than 2x a year, its in my KFC category of places I eat at when I'm feeling low on grease.

(I think Pizza Hut ruined itself around 2000 when they did a big change.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,911
5,012
136
No, I don't eat burgers unless they grind their own meat in house from whole muscle. The only place I know of (not that I really ask at every place) that does that is Icehouse.



I'm in Bloomington so kind of in the burbs, but not that far out where it would be a hassle to go somewhere to eat. I eat out once a week.

Here is my list of GREAT food in the twin cities:

Restaurants:
1. Icehouse
2. Meritage

Bakery:
1. Rustica

Pizza:
1. Punch

BBQ Ribs and Chicken:
The Smokin' Oak Rotisserie & Grill in Redwing


Send me any ideas and I'll report back on what I thought of it. I have been wanting to try Travail though.



Bloomington!

JesuCristo, no wonder you can't find good food! Try the hot dogs at Ikea.


Some of the best authentic ethnic and Twin Cities originals are lunch joints along University between Midway and Frog Town (Vietnamese/Hmong in particular). Hmongtown Marketplace has a crazy-rustic food court. Tanpopo near Union Depot is as authentic for Japanese as you will find..well there's Obento Ya on Como. Eat Street has some gems (try Lu's for bahn mi) Quang is an old standard for Pho, although Pho-Hoa is my new favorite. Nordeast has some of the best Middle Eastern. St Anthony Main to East Hennepin has Brasa, Bulldog for burgers and tots, Kramarczuck's for a killer Eastern European cafeteria (not to mention the sausage shop) Lake Street/Uptown for Tapas, Midtown Global Market is one big ethnic food court. Good heavens it never ends.

Bon appetit!


Edit> oh,yeah, don't forget Smack shack for all things lobster.

And this is just lunch...Dinner joints...oh my there's just no limit.
 
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gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
Some of the best authentic ethnic and Twin Cities originals are lunch joints along University between Midway and Frog Town (Vietnamese/Hmong in particular). Hmongtown Marketplace has a crazy-rustic food court. Tanpopo near Union Depot is as authentic for Japanese as you will find..well there's Obento Ya on Como. Eat Street has some gems (try Lu's for bahn mi) Quang is an old standard for Pho, although Pho-Hoa is my new favorite. Nordeast has some of the best Middle Eastern. St Anthony Main to East Hennepin has Brasa, Bulldog for burgers and tots, Kramarczuck's for a killer Eastern European cafeteria (not to mention the sausage shop) Lake Street/Uptown for Tapas, Midtown Global Market is one big ethnic food court. Good heavens it never ends.

Bon appetit!


Edit> oh,yeah, don't forget Smack shack for all things lobster.

And this is just lunch...Dinner joints...oh my there's just no limit.

I go downtown/uptown to eat once a week, unless it's crazy cold, so I'm not just comparing what is offered in my immediate area. I'll drive 45 minutes if I think there is good food to be had.

I don't like SE Asian food. They have a few dished that are like Chinese food so I'll eat those, but in general I don't like the vast majority of what is offered in that cuisine.

You named all Casual type place. Do you have any recommendations for Upscale Casual or Upscale dining?

I've eaten at Midtown Global Market and I thought "This is nice" not "WOW! I have to come back". I've eaten at a lot of excellent places, so I'm looking for good and memorable meals with high impact.

I also want to mention that I've never had bad Middle Eastern food before. It's always been consistently good at every place I've eaten at (at worst I might have gotten a stringy piece of lamb), but it also has never been outstanding.
 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,911
5,012
136
I don't like SE Asian food.

You named all Casual type place. Do you have any recommendations for Upscale Casual or Upscale dining?

I've eaten at Midtown Global Market and I thought "This is nice" not "WOW! I have to come back". I've eaten at a lot of excellent places, so I'm looking for good and memorable meals with high impact.

I also want to mention that I've never had bad Middle Eastern food before. It;s always been consistently good at every place I've eaten at (at worst I might have gotten a stringy piece of lamb), but it also has never been outstanding.

I'll let you in on some if you remove Minneapolis from your avatar and replace it with Bloomington. If you truly lived in Mpls, you never would have needed to make this thread.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
I'll let you in on some if you remove Minneapolis from your avatar and replace it with Bloomington. If you truly lived in Mpls, you never would have needed to make this thread.

Done. Lets hear your list and if I see Bachelor Farmer on your list I don't know how seriously I can take you. They don't respect the ingredients.

I don't see what the big deal is, I drive downtown and eat there every week I'm in town.
 
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xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
lol, not exactly. perry county. nearby city is new lexington, if you care to burn time looking.



3 months, hah. you mean december-february? ;)

GTFO of this thread. Winter is the worst season and everyone knows this.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
"Haha John's" pizza is terrible. Remember those pizza lunchables with the sauce packet? Haha john's sauce taste just like that.

Whenever I hear "better ingrediants, better pizza, haha john's" - that's taunting. Flagrant taunting.

Worst pizza. Worst politics.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Since when did Pizza Hut get healthy? I can't go to Pizza Hut more than 2x a year, its in my KFC category of places I eat at when I'm feeling low on grease.

(I think Pizza Hut ruined itself around 2000 when they did a big change.

I think we're talking around the same time period. Their bread got a LOT LESS greasy. Good for the heart, bad for the tongue.

appealing to the lowest common denominator?

High horse alert. What exactly is wrong with Cheesecake's food?

My local pizzeria prepares their pizza dough right in front of me (absent of cellulose) with five main ingredients: water, flour, salt, yeast and olive oil, also homemade mozzarella with plum tomato sauce seasoned with garlic and fresh garden herbs.

Pizza Hut, Dominos and Papa John's pizzas contain a good percentage of wood pulp.

In fact, Papa John's doesn't want consumers knowing what's in their food, and they aren't alone.

What Papa John's doesn't want you to know about their food
http://news.yahoo.com/papa-johns-doesnt-want-know-food-194013379.html

Yeah, to be honest, I don't actually care. It won't kill me if I eat it once a month, if that, and more importantly, it tastes great for a chain pizza. I don't care about their marketing or if John is real. I only care about taste. I think out of all the chains, they're the one. Out of all frozen, it is Trader Joe's, as proven in Consumer Reports. I do have a local mom & pop which is best here (hey I'm in NY), but I don't put down good chains because "I know better".
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
OMG!!! Criticizing fast food chains while sucking up to Whole Foods would be one of the funniest sly ironic digs ever if only you had meant it that way.
Honestly I don't shop there a lot because I have better grocery options where I live. I mention them because in some parts of the country its the only place to get organic produce and higher-end (free range or grass fed) meats.