All graphic card reviews paid?

[bryanW1995]

nvidia forced review sites to use overclocked 460s vs stock 6870s ^-^.
I think that says plenty of which is better... stock 460 or stock 6870s.
I think the 6870s have the upper hand on the 460 1gbs if you compaire non overclocked vs non overclocked, by a good bit.

If both cost the same, performance is the same... buy whichever brand you like better. I will say I switched to amd/ati 4xxx series and 5xxx series and have been a happy camper (used almost purely nvidia before then).

wow, and how exactly did they force AT to do that? I'm pretty sure that anand would have harsh words for nvidia if they didn't supply him with test samples, and the few $$ that it costs to actually purchase one would not exactly break the bank here imho.

 

[apoppin]

NV reviewers guide is not an animate object so of course it can't "tell" you anything. In any case, most reviewers of the GTS450 did bench FC2 and I've seen shots of the reviewer's guide so let's just drop the pretense and agree that NV put it in their reviewer's guide. And most reviewers went along with it. It doesn't mean they were biased or did not think for themselves (I've made this disclaimer like 10 times now). But the fact that AT, BT, and HardOCP did not follow along means they went their own way which to me is evidence that they think for themselves and aren't afraid to deviate from the script.

I think what the other poster wrote about big reviewers vs. little ones, in the context of bike companies, probably holds true for PC hardware too.

i'll let you in on a little secret. i read the reviewers guide - from AMD and from Nvidia *after* my benching is done and most of the writing outlined. And i only check it to see that i did not leave something out that i wanted in. i *never* follow "their settings" for my own benching although i have attempted to replicate their conditions when i had some disparity in my own benching.

You say (over and over, ad nauseum, "nV put FC2 in the reviewers guide"; Well, so did AMD *also* put FC2 into their reviewer's guide.

THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY. If a review site has TIME they might add FC2 into the mix. You keep bringing up AT and HardOCP - but they have comparatively few benches. IF i only ran ten games, i would NOT (also) include FC2. But then i run 2x the benches of what the average reviewer runs.

 

[blastingcap]

i'll let you in on a little secret. i read the reviewers guide - from AMD and from Nvidia *after* my benching is done and most of the writing outlined. And i only check it to see that i did not leave something out that i wanted in. i *never* follow "their settings" for my own benching although i have attempted to replicate their conditions when i had some disparity in my own benching.

You say (over and over, ad nauseum, "nV put FC2 in the reviewers guide"; Well, so did AMD *also* put FC2 into their reviewer's guide.

THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY. If a review site has TIME they might add FC2 into the mix. You keep bringing up AT and HardOCP - but they have comparatively few benches. IF i only ran ten games, i would NOT (also) include FC2. But then i run 2x the benches of what the average reviewer runs.

I am not criticizing your site, relax. I see almost nobody reviewed FC2 in 68xx reviews but did so with all NV reviews. I suppose it could be coincidence...

 

[apoppin]

I am not criticizing your site, relax. I see almost nobody reviewed FC2 in 68xx reviews but did so with all NV reviews. I suppose it could be coincidence...

No coincidence. We had longer to evaluate GTS 450. My suggestion is that it was simply a common lack of time for all of us reviewers with HD 68x0. Imagine having ONE WEEK to run all of my benches for TWO cards, make charts, post the images and write 11,500 words on 27 pages; it was a launch of a "series", not just a single video card.
:'(

 

[RussianSensation]

OK .. my "line up" will look like:

• GTX 580
• GTX 580-OC
• GTX 480
• GTX 480-Galaxy SOC
• HD 5870
• HD 5870-OC
• HD 6870
• HD 6870-OC
• HD 6850
• HD 6850-OC
• GTX 460-EVGA-OC
• GTX 460
• GTX 460-768M

It's so easy to come up with "biases" for any review if you really wanted to. Here let me try 🙂

"You are biased!! First, you left out the HD5970. So you are inherently underrepresenting AMD's high-end offerings. Who compares enthusiast cards at $499+ and excludes the HD5970??? Second, since you only included GTX480-Galaxy OC, you are favouring the GTX580 because a faster GTX480 from Gigabyte is available for $450 which is less than the MSRP of a stock clocked GTX580."

Oh, this is fun :biggrin:

 

[apoppin]

It's so easy to come up with "biases" for any review if you really wanted to. Here let me try 🙂

"You are biased!! First, you left out the HD5970. So you are inherently underrepresenting AMD's high-end offerings. Who compares enthusiast cards at $499+ and excludes the HD5970??? Second, since you only included GTX480-Galaxy OC, you are favouring the GTX580 because a faster GTX480 from Gigabyte is available for $450 which is less than the MSRP of a stock clocked GTX580."

Oh, this is fun :biggrin:

Actually, i would *love* to have a HD 5970 but AMD never sent me one
🙁
- it is just not in my budget to pick one up. That is why i mentioned using HD 5870 CrossFire which is pretty close to HD 5970 performance.

Again, i don't have a Gigabyte GTX 480, so it is pretty hard to compare what one does not have. In this case, the SOC Galaxy does a nice job as a "stand in" and it also overclocks further than the Galaxy OC. The $480 is just the suggested price for it; they are all discounted now.
😉

i don't think we actually know the price of GTX 580. 😛

 

[blastingcap]

I felt this was important enough to post in the thread in which it belongs, since I am a fan of W1zzard at TechPowerUp and his GPU-Z and TriXX.

W1zzard is not getting any GTX580s but other sites are. Apparently NV is playing favorites with its reviewers. 🙁

That's interesting. Yea W1zzard's forum participation is pretty cool too. Have you seen any [legit] sites indicate receiving samples or NDA info?

By the way, the last time I remember this happening was with the GTS 250 launch, but apparently I missed some fireworks back in May of this year:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2731/2

"For What it's Worth
Early last week Charlie over at The Inquirer posted a story saying that a number of reviewers were cut out of the GeForce GTS 250 launch. We felt a bit hurt, by the time the story launched we weren't even asked to be briefed about the GTS 250. Cards had already gone out to other reviewers but we weren't on any lists. Oh, pout.

Magically, a couple of days after Charlie's article we got invited to a NVIDIA briefing and we had a GTS 250 to test. Perhaps NVIDIA was simply uncharacteristically late in briefing us about a new GPU launch. Perhaps NVIDIA was afraid we'd point out that it was nothing more than a 9800 GTX+ that ran a little cooler. Or perhaps we haven't been positive enough about CUDA and PhysX and NVIDIA was trying to punish us.

Who knows what went on at NVIDIA prior to the launch, we're here to review the card, but for what it's worth - thank you Charlie 🙂"

Also, despite Apoppin continually declaring that NV never asks for anything specific and that they just throw cards at him, I find that very hard to believe except at a purely technical level, given:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2078922 <-- none other than BFG10k himself says that NV gave apoppin an angry phone call about ABT's GTX470 reviews ... so NV doesn't ask for anything specific in reviews but if you don't follow their wishes, they yell at you later (and maybe blacklist you) for it? Isn't that basically the same thing, even if it's not technically the same thing?

and

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/30/how-nvidia-blacklists-sites-hardware-secrets/

and

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30708435&postcount=43

 

[Arkadrel]

apoppin thats kinda sad.... call up AMD and bug them until they cave in and give you a 5970. Would love to see a 5970 vs 580 battle... we already *know though speculation* that the 580 is gonna be 15&#37; or so faster than a 480 and beat the 5870 by like 40-60%. The real battle will be the 5970 vs the 580 if their in the same price range.

Unless the 580 is alot cheaper than the 5970 is...

I actually think the only thing in a review people would want to see if how much faster the 580 is than a 480, 5870, and how it compairs to the 5970.

 

[blastingcap]

apoppin thats kinda sad.... call up AMD and bug them until they cave in and give you a 5970. Would love to see a 5970 vs 580 battle... we already *know though speculation* that the 580 is gonna be 15% or so faster than a 480 and beat the 5870 by like 40-60%. The real battle will be the 5970 vs the 580 if their in the same price range.

Unless the 580 is alot cheaper than the 5970 is...

I am not singling out apoppin or his site by the way, I am just pissed that NV apparently blacklisted TPU because TPU didn't gush enough over NV's cards or gushed too much over AMD's or whatever. Sure there could be other possibilities for NV doing this, but come on, W1zzard of TPU? He freakin' wrote GPU-Z for crying out loud. And NV doing that crap to Anandtech over the GTS 250 was pretty obnoxious as well. Not to mention hardwaresecrets. Even HardOCP was snubbed before. I am starting to see why AIBs say that NV is hard to work with... talk about demanding/controlling behavior!

 

[betasub]

Unless the 580 is alot cheaper than the 5970 is...

UK etailer pricing the GTX580 at £399 (including taxes). Putting it ~10% cheaper than their current 5970 prices (down from an original £499).

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

When is the 580 launch?

 

[Sylvanas]

When is the 580 launch?

Rumours suggest the 9th. Seeing as it's the 9th in this part of the world in less than a day there may be some 'leaked' reviews go up from the usual suspects in China or elsewhere pretty soon.

 

[Arkadrel]

UK etailer pricing the GTX580 at &#163;399 (including taxes). Putting it ~10&#37; cheaper than their current 5970 prices (down from an original &#163;499).

I googled the pound to dollar ratio, and it said 1 pound = 1.61 dollars.

So a 580 for 399&#163; = 643$

On newegg you can find a 5970 for 469.99$ after mail rebate (less than 643$).

I still think if both cards are close to one another in price, they should be benched against one another.

 

[busydude]

I googled the pound to dollar ratio, and it said 1 pound = 1.61 dollars. So a 580 for 399&#163; = 643$

Its not that simple, electronics are a little bit expensive in Europe.

6870 retails for 200 pounds($330).. and 6850 for 160 pounds($260). There is no direct linear correlation between prices relative to dollar/pound ratio.

 

[Aristotelian]

UK etailer pricing the GTX580 at £399 (including taxes). Putting it ~10% cheaper than their current 5970 prices (down from an original £499).

Where is that offer from? I usually check overclockers and their 480s are around £330 (EVGA), so £399 for a 580 (if 20% faster) is pretty much what you're paying for. Not bad at all.

 

[blastingcap]

I must be in the twilight zone if you guys are talking about pricing rather than TPU getting snubbed by NV, in a thread with the name that it has.

 

[notty22]

I must be in the twilight zone if you guys are talking about pricing rather than TPU getting snubbed by NV, in a thread with the name that it has.

I don't think it has anything to do with insidious motives. Its probably more a sign of limited review samples, which might or might not be a sign of limited availability.
AMD sent out borked ES samples of Barts with the wrong number of shaders to some reviewers, was there some motive to that ? I don't think there was, but I could concoct something up.

 

[Attic]

I must be in the twilight zone if you guys are talking about pricing rather than TPU getting snubbed by NV, in a thread with the name that it has.

/agree

Regarding TPU, that's terrible. I'm not surprised to hear the information though (punishing a review site for not pushing nvidia's agenda). This kind of behavior is not at all out of the ordinary with nVidia, given their recent dealings I would say that it is more expected than anything.

I hope there is a swift backlash against that kind of behavior from nVidia.

 

[Attic]

AMD sent out borked ES samples of Barts with the wrong number of shaders to some reviewers, was there some motive to that ? I don't think there was, but I could concoct something up.

Apples and the GDP of Khazikstan.

 

[Tempered81]

My question is: Is there any independent review site left or are all just an extended hand of the puppeteers tricking people into buying new stuff, without any significant gain of doing so!?

Don't be paranoid, get a good idea by eyeing charts on a few big sites... AT, TPU, GURU3d, TOMS, PCGH. Then you can ask on the forums and look for someone giving recommendations from both brands with statements like, "Look at the 5850 or 460 1GB." Head to newegg and check the prices and ratings, then make a decision.

I'm a pro ati guy. But i like a few Nvidia cards like the 8800gt, 8800gtx, 460, 285, & 580. Nvidia makes better software while ATI prices their products more competitively and is not known for A$$raping its customers. The paid reviews and posters thing has been going on for longer than you'd imagine (they are easy to spot here on at forums - I can think of a handful):

 

[blastingcap]

Don't be paranoid, get a good idea by eyeing charts on a few big sites... AT, TPU, GURU3d, TOMS, PCGH. Then you can ask on the forums and look for someone giving recommendations from both brands with statements like, "Look at the 5850 or 460 1GB." Head to newegg and check the prices and ratings, then make a decision.

I'm a pro ati guy. But i like a few Nvidia cards like the 8800gt, 8800gtx, 460, 285, & 580. Nvidia makes better software while ATI prices their products more competitively and is not known for A$$raping its customers. The paid reviews and posters thing has been going on for longer than you'd imagine (they are easy to spot here on at forums - I can think of a handful):

Apparently, one of those people was outed here on AT forums. I wonder how many more of them weren't caught.

 

[betasub]

I must be in the twilight zone if you guys are talking about pricing rather than TPU getting snubbed by NV, in a thread with the name that it has.

Touche. Perhaps that's the same zone that's engulfed the GTX580 pictures/rumours thread.

 

[Arkadrel]

I dont think anyone knows why TPU hasnt gotten a sample, its abit harsh to say that nvidia are punishing them for not pushing nvidia agenda. Theres really no proof of that, maybe they just have limited cards to send out or something.

 

[BFG10K]

I dont think anyone knows why TPU hasnt gotten a sample, its abit harsh to say that nvidia are punishing them for not pushing nvidia agenda. Theres really no proof of that, maybe they just have limited cards to send out or something.

Maybe it’s the European sites missing out?

 

[blastingcap]

Maybe it’s the European sites missing out?

In the TPU discussion thread, apparently another big EU site got one, but not TPU.