All graphic card reviews paid?

[SlickR12345]

So for the latest series of AMD graphic cards the 6870 and 6850 I went to great lengths to find out which is better relative to their price: 6870, 6850 or GTX 460 1GB, w or w/o O'C.
Literally tens of sites later I found no answer. The results varied like rock and sandwich, there was simply no middle ground no king of the hill, no knowledge to be gained, just random numbers and a strange text bellow the numbers describing the results in the image(as if a picture isn't worth a thousand words).

My fellow partisans, we have been fooled and tricked by the giant conglomerate, almost like a war machine ravaging everything in its path, our brains have been brainwashed into rabid fanboys spreading the word of our puppeteer's.
No website has been left uncompromised, no stone left unturned.

Results for these cards varied from 1 to 20fps wherever you look with one big conclusion in the end: purchase/buy/get/replace/add, etc...
Like if the 3fps over $10 less priced "previous gen." graphic cards was good enough to validate another purchase. No site questioning the validity for such graphics over previous generations and why those 3fps would temps anyone into buying these "new products".
But this isn't just now, things go quite back in time, in fact probably since the x1000, G6000 series.

My question is: Is there any independent review site left or are all just an extended hand of the puppeteers tricking people into buying new stuff, without any significant gain of doing so!?

 

[flopper]

Welcome to the era of capitalism.
Its called freedom.
You can choose a varity of several cards that performs the same.
Maybe a feature wins you over but performance, in essence it is the same.

Of course they are paid, a free card and loyalty is earned.
Its not uncommon that Nvidia pays the site or even owns it trough several offshore companies.

AMD had no cards at this pricepoint, now they do, dont be suprised that they perform similiar.

 

[RaistlinZ]

While I do sometimes question the test results on reviews (especially when they differ so much from one site to another) I don't think there's any "trick" or conspiracy at play just to get you to buy new products.

Either the new features/performance is worth spending money on for you, or it's not.

 

[shangshang]

While I do sometimes question the test results on reviews (especially when they differ so much from one site to another) I don't think there's any "trick" or conspiracy at play just to get you to buy new products.

Either the new features/performance is worth spending money on for you, or it's not.

ugh while there may be no tricks or conspiracy to get consumers to buy, there is definitely a concerted effort by all the major sites to get viewers to buy! Do you realize that if a site tell its readers not to buy, then it is in effect shooting itself. The only time a major site would recommend NOT buying a product is when that product is so blatantly sucking ass that the site would actually lose street cred if it recommends it! Otherwise, it's buy buy baby.

 

[nemesismk2]

My understanding is that companies supply review samples with a list of requirements and if you give a positive review then you will get more review samples. 😉

 

[faxon]

well considering the fact that AMD was intentionally aiming at the $180-240 price range with this launch, NO CRAP THEY PERFORM THE SAME, wasnt that the point? if you dont like the performance they offer, wait till the 6970/580 launches and pick from that. me personally, i have a power constraint to work within, and i fully plan to buy a 6970 at launch so i can flex that power constraint to its limit, assuming it lands where im predicting it will given rumors. AMD did a good job reducing the cost of barts vs cypress, gotta give them credit there. the small performance drop should easily get ironed out in drivers, give it 3 months and the 6 series will be above the 5 series like driver updates always end up pushing.

No cussing in technical forums please.

Moderator Idontcare

 

[3DVagabond]

Little old Techgage, while choosing their words carefully, gave a don't buy recommendation when talking about the 6800 series in crossfire. Even though they performed great. I don't think they were bought off by anyone, FWIW.

Of course, there is just one other thing to consider. Rumor has it that AMD will be launching its HD 6900 series in a month, and while the HD 6800 didn't offer a revolutionary new design, this upcoming series will. Pricing is up in the air, but it looks like the HD 6900 series will offer almost twice the performance of these current single-GPU cards, meaning, no CrossFireX.

If you wnat you can see the entire review here.
http://techgage.com/article/amd_radeon_hd_6870_hd_6850_in_crossfirex/1

Or just the entire conclusion from which I got the quote above here.
http://techgage.com/article/amd_radeon_hd_6870_hd_6850_in_crossfirex/14

I also know for a fact (well Rob Williams said so, anyway) they weren't given an EVGA GTX-460 FTW from nVidia for his review of Barts. He said he wouldn't of used it if they did. His reviews have been very positive of the 6800's.

He seems to think that the 6900 is really going to be something special.

 

[oynaz]

Anandtech has given plenty of Don't buy advice.

 

[Arkadrel]

nvidia forced review sites to use overclocked 460s vs stock 6870s ^-^.
I think that says plenty of which is better... stock 460 or stock 6870s.
I think the 6870s have the upper hand on the 460 1gbs if you compaire non overclocked vs non overclocked, by a good bit.

If both cost the same, performance is the same... buy whichever brand you like better. I will say I switched to amd/ati 4xxx series and 5xxx series and have been a happy camper (used almost purely nvidia before then).

 

[Dribble]

[H] don't bow to either side (have said very nasty stuff about ati and nvidia) and give accurate gaming reviews, that's not to say they are completely unbiased (Kyle is very biased in his pet love/hates) but that bias is not bought - it's all his own preferences.

 

[SlickR12345]

Little old Techgage, while choosing their words carefully, gave a don't buy recommendation when talking about the 6800 series in crossfire. Even though they performed great. I don't think they were bought off by anyone, FWIW.



If you wnat you can see the entire review here.
http://techgage.com/article/amd_radeon_hd_6870_hd_6850_in_crossfirex/1

Or just the entire conclusion from which I got the quote above here.
http://techgage.com/article/amd_radeon_hd_6870_hd_6850_in_crossfirex/14

I also know for a fact (well Rob Williams said so, anyway) they weren't given an EVGA GTX-460 FTW from nVidia for his review of Barts. He said he wouldn't of used it if they did. His reviews have been very positive of the 6800's.

He seems to think that the 6900 is really going to be something special.

???
They did absolutely not only recommend amd newest cards, but they actually recommend even 2 of them, even for mid power systems. How is that opposing what I wrote?
They are basically saying, hey don't buy a 6870, buy 2 of them. Again falls completely in line with what I'm saying all along.
They weren't bought off by Nvidia, they got bought off by AMD, same deal same thing, one fanboy will defend it, one will argue it, falls right into the hands of the "brainwashing", no matter what side is brainwashing you.

I'm not saying there hasn't been any "don't buy" sayings, though they have been obvious by plane and recommending to buy them would just have been absolutely insane and damaging to their business.

And again, I still don't know which is better between 6850, 6870 or 460 1GB overclocked or not per price.
All reviews range, one shows results favoring the 460 overclock or not, the other the 6000 series and all are with hugely different frames per second and there is absolutely no way to tell which is right or wrong.

For example one site had the 460 1gb OC one, on average 15fps faster than the 6850 and taking turns with the 6870, but another review would have the 6850 really neck and neck with an OC'ed 460 and 6870 easily beating it.
Again how to decide if all results are fixed to favor some1?

 

[3DVagabond]

You must read the part I quoted from the review differently than me. :shrug:

 

[Arkadrel]

@SlickR12345

Differnt resolutions the cards performan differntly (amd cards usually fair better than the 460s in the 1900+ res). Also which sort of AA was used? ect ect... it all effects what card wins out.

a overclocked 460 at 850mhz core WILL be faster than a 6870 (non overclocked).
a overclocked 6870 will be equal fast or faster than the 460 overclocked.

again buy which ever...

460 EVGA FTW newegg price = 239.99$
6870 (more or less any model) = 239.99$

If you buy the 6870 instead of the 460, simply go to the CCC controlls and overclock it. Both are great cards offering equal value so reguardless of which you buy you wont be ripped off.

The biggest chance of rip off is buying a (stock) 460.. and finding out you got unlucky and it cant overclock very well (not all card overclock equally well). In that case you would have been better off with a 6870 (its a safer bet).

 

[Sickamore]

Well the AT review didn't make much sense in the benchmark test. Due to the ftw input. It left me thinking why bother with new gen when i can get it old gen cheaper and has same performance.

 

[Arkadrel]

Well the AT review didn't make much sense in the benchmark test. Due to the ftw input. It left me thinking why bother with new gen when i can get it old gen cheaper and has same performance.

which is why nvidia forced reviewers to use it... after price slashing the card to match the competitors. So they wouldnt end up looking bad with a stock 460 vs stock 6870.

 

[apoppin]

which is why nvidia forced reviewers to use it... after price slashing the card to match the competitors. So they wouldnt end up looking bad with a stock 460 vs stock 6870.

This is utterly ridiculous. Neither Nvidia nor AMD "forced" me to use either an overclocked HD 5870 (to compare with GTX 480 back in April) nor the FtW EVGA GTX 460 (last month to compare with HD 68x0, stock and O/C'd).

They simply sent the cards to me with no restrictions, and i could have sold them or tossed them into the trash. 😱

Now if i *didn't* use them, i feel i would be doing my readers a disservice. More information is better than less information and the EVGA OC card IS a competitor at the same price as HD 6870. To BALANCE the EVGA OC'd card, i got an excellent OC on my HD 6850 (not so good on the HD 6870) - and i also showed the STOCK GTX 460 vs the stock 6870 and stock 6850.

One of the BIG PROBLEMS is with AMD and Nvidia only giving the reviewers ONE WEEK with the new cards. That is about half the time imo that is needed to do a proper review. i spent over 100 hours with HD 68x0 and GTX 460 in that week to give my readers an IDEA of relative performance. And i am working on a far more in-depth review of HD 68x0 vs GTX 460 now (Part 2)
i also think that if you read many reviews and are savvy, you can get a pretty accurate picture of HD 68x0 vs GTX 460 and the HD 5000 series.

HD 6870 is approximately equal to HD 5850 performance-wise and that will not change with driver revisions; AMD brought 5850 performance to a lower price point. What is not to like about that?

 

[taltamir]

someone needs to take off the tinfoil...

Like if the 3fps over $10 less priced "previous gen."

Now, this is broken english so forgive me if I misunderstood, but I think what you are saying is that the HD6870 and HD6850 are 3fps faster, and 10$ cheaper than last gen?

firstly, 3fps is a meaningless value, we need to know percentage. if its 6fps instead of 3fps in 6 monitor eyefinity crysis then that is a 100% increase... and will be much more than 3fps on a single monitor.
if its 103 vs 100 fps on 1920x1200, well, big meh.

Secondly, GTX460 price dropped overnight by 90$, and the 68xx series is about half the price and 10% slower than the 58xx series... you would know that if you read any reviews.

Thirdly, those scary numbers and graphs are very very easy to understand and read by anyone with the most basic of mental capacity. I am sure you are capable of comprehending them if you merely actually TRY to. They are far more useful than merely a verdict with no fact to back it up... you can see them and draw different conclusions than the reviewer.

Fourthly, you can't concurrently bribe EVERYONE, thats not how things work. You can bribe a few people, but there will always be some which refuse to sellout, this is the biggest issue I see... as it veers from merely ignorance into the realm of crazy conspiracy theories (I say crazy because there are REAL conspiracies, things like price fixing and collusion are very real and people go to jail over that, and its a conspiracy... so I don't want to insinuate that any conspiracy theory is crazy just by virtue of being a conspiracy theory)

Fifthly, the GTX460 was dropped 90$ in price the day the 68xx series was launched, making it 10$ cheaper and a few FPS slower/faster depending on game. This is probably where you got the 3fps, 10$ figure... by misreading what reviewers were talking about. You see, they are NOT comparing the AMD HD6xxx series to the AMD5xxx series in that figure, they are comparing nvidia's GTX460 to AMDs HD68xx series. its 10$ cheaper because it was dropped in price by 90$ to remain competitive, because nobody in their right mind will pay 80$ more to get a GTX460 over an HD6850... but without the HD6850 we would not have seen that price drop.

 

[Seero]

So for the latest series of AMD graphic cards the 6870 and 6850 I went to great lengths to find out which is better relative to their price: 6870, 6850 or GTX 460 1GB, w or w/o O'C.
Literally tens of sites later I found no answer. The results varied like rock and sandwich, there was simply no middle ground no king of the hill, no knowledge to be gained, just random numbers and a strange text bellow the numbers describing the results in the image(as if a picture isn't worth a thousand words).

My fellow partisans, we have been fooled and tricked by the giant conglomerate, almost like a war machine ravaging everything in its path, our brains have been brainwashed into rabid fanboys spreading the word of our puppeteer's.
No website has been left uncompromised, no stone left unturned.

Results for these cards varied from 1 to 20fps wherever you look with one big conclusion in the end: purchase/buy/get/replace/add, etc...
Like if the 3fps over $10 less priced "previous gen." graphic cards was good enough to validate another purchase. No site questioning the validity for such graphics over previous generations and why those 3fps would temps anyone into buying these "new products".
But this isn't just now, things go quite back in time, in fact probably since the x1000, G6000 series.

My question is: Is there any independent review site left or are all just an extended hand of the puppeteers tricking people into buying new stuff, without any significant gain of doing so!?

Search no more my friend.
GPU comparison from Anandtech

No opinions, just charts and direct comparisons.

 

[Skurge]

Look buddy. Look at the numbers and decide if you want the card or not. Do go looking for review sites to tell you weather to buy or not. They just give you the tools to make an informed decision.

When I was buying my system I looked at the anandtech Phenom2 crossfire review. I was getting with 5FPS of everyone of their benches with drivers that were a bit newer. That is why I trust anandtech's numbers (not their opinions) them and hardwarecanuks and Hardocp.

If you don agree with a certain review, throw it out of decision making. This forum is also full of GTX460 and 6870/6850 owners. You can ask them to bench their cards for you.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Please apply a bit more common sense when reading reviews, SlickR12345. The 68xx cards are midrange value cards, the 69xx series arriving at the end of this month will be the new performance cards.

Reviews are NOT telling you to replace a 5850 with a 6870, since the reviews show (and make no effort to hide) that there is very little difference between the two. The 6870 is, as the AnandTech review clearly explains, designed to take its place while costing AMD less to manufacture.

On the other hand, for someone like me with a 4870-512, the 68xx cards offer lower power use, heat and noise while increasing performance dramatically and adding DX11 support. I've ordered a 6850 to use with my 2008 CPU (E8400) for perhaps another year until the 7xxx cards are out and I build a full new system.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Any review that is paid by manufactures is worthless.

Just like the car business, JD power and Consumer (heck even magazines) reports are ALL bogus. Not only because they get paid from manufactures but also the way they do their studies/reviews.

Anyone that participated in JD Power study knows that there is no way in hell they can come up with ANY decent/accurate info from their questions.

I don't take these reviews seriously and no review defines which is better. I just look at the ball park and see which manufacturer has more of what I'm looking for.

so if you pick 6850 over 460 1gb.......you are fine, stupid to say one is better than the other, it's more of a piss match than anything else.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Well the AT review didn't make much sense in the benchmark test. Due to the ftw input. It left me thinking why bother with new gen when i can get it old gen cheaper and has same performance.

Well in the end Nvidia marketing did their job. While Anandtech was supposed to be showcasing the intro of the 6XXX series cards it turned into an Nvidia "hey look at what we are offering at the same price/performance stand point, we dropped prices too, Evga ftw review."

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

This is utterly ridiculous. Neither Nvidia nor AMD "forced" me to use either an overclocked HD 5870 (to compare with GTX 480 back in April) nor the FtW EVGA GTX 460 (last month to compare with HD 68x0, stock and O/C'd).

They simply sent the cards to me with no restrictions, and i could have sold them or tossed them into the trash. 😱

Now if i *didn't* use them, i feel i would be doing my readers a disservice. More information is better than less information and the EVGA OC card IS a competitor at the same price as HD 6870. To BALANCE the EVGA OC'd card, i got an excellent OC on my HD 6850 (not so good on the HD 6870) - and i also showed the STOCK GTX 460 vs the stock 6870 and stock 6850.

One of the BIG PROBLEMS is with AMD and Nvidia only giving the reviewers ONE WEEK with the new cards. That is about half the time imo that is needed to do a proper review. i spent over 100 hours with HD 68x0 and GTX 460 in that week to give my readers an IDEA of relative performance. And i am working on a far more in-depth review of HD 68x0 vs GTX 460 now (Part 2)
i also think that if you read many reviews and are savvy, you can get a pretty accurate picture of HD 68x0 vs GTX 460 and the HD 5000 series.

HD 6870 is approximately equal to HD 5850 performance-wise and that will not change with driver revisions; AMD brought 5850 performance to a lower price point. What is not to like about that?

Hook, line, and sinker. Nvidia marketing ftw.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Barts > juniper

Cayman > Cypress

this is how you should compare % performance increase . Barts increased Juniper lvl performance to that of last gens cypress. Cayman should bring it to Hemlocks level.

thats the way i see it anyway. suit yourself

 

[taltamir]

Search no more my friend.
GPU comparison from Anandtech

No opinions, just charts and direct comparisons.

the problem is:

Literally tens of sites later I found no answer. The results varied like rock and sandwich, there was simply no middle ground no king of the hill, no knowledge to be gained, just random numbers and a strange text bellow the numbers describing the results in the image(as if a picture isn't worth a thousand words).

those are just "random numbers with strange text"...