The only thing democracy in Iraq is gonna change is that in addition to guns, the extremists will also have votes. Notice how we aren't pushing for democracy in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, because chances are the people who will win in democratic elections will be extremists who appeal to anti-US sentiments. Why do you think Iraq is any different?
The only thing democracy in Iraq is gonna change is that in addition to guns, the extremists will also have votes. Notice how we aren't pushing for democracy in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, because chances are the people who will win in democratic elections will be extremists who appeal to anti-US sentiments. Why do you think Iraq is any different?
Originally posted by: nutxo
Nope, but I'm impartial.
Not to mention I love a good conspiracy theory
I think it was Kerry!
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1760742
Key Suspect in Madrid Bombings Had Al Qaeda Ties
Spain Says Cell of 20 Moroccans Planned, Executed Attacks
March 17, 2004 -- Published reports in Madrid say Spanish police have identified 20 Moroccans whom they say planned and carried out the March 11 commuter train bombings that killed 201 people and wounded more than 1,500 others.
Investigators are following a trail of evidence that began with a pre-paid cell phone card, found inside a backpack along with an unexploded bomb and a cell phone wired as a detonator. Spanish police have arrested three Moroccans, including Jamal Zougam, a man in his 30s who ran a cell phone repair shop in Madrid.
Spanish officials say Zougam, who is already in custody, is a key suspect in their investigation. Two survivors of the blasts say they remember seeing him on a Madrid commuter train before the explosions. Zougam also figures in a two-year-old indictment of alleged Al Qaeda members accused of helping plan the Sept. 11 attacks.
Zougam is also linked to a suicide bombing last year in Casablanca in which more than 40 people died. Following those attacks, Moroccan police put Zougam and hundreds more Islamic fundamentalists under surveillance. Those accused in the Casablanca bombings belonged to a Moroccan al Qaeda faction. Many of the group's radical Islamist followers studied in Saudi-financed schools that sprang up in Casablanca's poor neighborhoods in the 1970s.
On Tuesday, Spanish police detained an Algerian who is said to have discussed plans for a terrorist attack in Madrid two months ago. Investigators are seeking several more Moroccan men in connection to the bombings.
If a democratic government is successfully installed by the U.S., there's no guarantee it won't fall during a Civil War not long thereafter.
Even in Spain, the pro-US government was thrown out of office in democratic elections. So what would make someone believe that democracy in Iraq would produce a pro-US government?
Originally posted by: nutxo
Nope, but I'm impartial.
Not to mention I love a good conspiracy theory
I think it was Kerry!
More tidbits on the Global Liberal Conspiracy. I have circumstantial evidence that the bombings were conducted by MoveOn.org in collusion with the New York Times.
Zephyr
yes, leaving socialist dictators in place while 11 years of economic sanctions that only starve the common people was a fine example of "diplomacy and politics" working real great.
more european stupidity.
who cares if a bunch of european imbeciles "take us seriously"? the only time they have anyway is when they need us to save them(then rebuild them) from other europeans engaged in a little expansionist adventurism. otherwise it is the same old "@$^@$^ america!) that has been around for decades, this is nothing new.
the whole issue boils down to the european has-been union got it's feelings hurt(remember self-esteem is everything) when bush did not cowtow to them, and then(and even worse!) was successful without them!(the horror!)
and to add insult to injury many american people remembered that most of our ancestors left europe because they did not want a bunch of elitest idiots telling us how to live and invade our lives.
the very existance of the US pisses them off. beneath that veneer of "internationalism" they are all saying "that should be us! instead it is those backward colonials!" we have wounded the overweening pride of the puffed up old world, they will get over it eventually.
Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Originally posted by: nutxo
Nope, but I'm impartial.
Not to mention I love a good conspiracy theory
I think it was Kerry!
More tidbits on the Global Liberal Conspiracy. I have circumstantial evidence that the bombings were conducted by MoveOn.org in collusion with the New York Times.
Zephyr
woot, lemme get some popcorn
"most of our ancestors left europe because they did not want a bunch of elitest idiots telling us how to live and invade our lives."
That says a lot about your narrow-mindedness. Guess all of the Hispanics and Asians as well as people who emigrated here for better opportunites somehow slipped your mind?
There's more to the world than Europe. But, Europe is a key component of our economy. Spin what you want but it's true.
BTW, your lame comparison of Zapateros to Saddam isn't worthy of a response.
That says a lot about your narrow-mindedness. Guess all of the Hispanics and Asians as well as people who emigrated here for better opportunites somehow slipped your mind?
There's more to the world than Europe. But, Europe is a key component of our economy. Spin what you want but it's true.
BTW, your lame comparison of Zapateros to Saddam isn't worthy of a response.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Ah so they are jealous because we are succeding where Hitler failed in world domination. That does say a lot for us.
Europe wanted to lift the sanctions "that only starve the common people" long time ago. So it was US and Brittish stupidity that was keeping them in place.
Indeed. Yet Shad0hawK and others like him want to blame it all on europe. There's a lot of blame to go around for how Iraq (or the world for that matter)looks, but here he is, playing the blame game. And doing a piss poor job at it as well.
if you are impartial then why do you say "I dont think it was Al Queda myself", thats called taking a standOriginally posted by: nutxo
Nope, but I'm impartial.
Not to mention I love a good conspiracy theory
I think it was Kerry!
why dont all the people who think the US should base its national security decisions on what the "European community" thinks move the hell over there.
Damn this board is full of socialist-commie want-a-bes
Damn this board is full of socialist-commie want-a-bes
Why don't all the people who think European countries should base their national security decisions on what Bush wants them to do move the hell over there and vote for would-be lapdogs?
The europeans can do WHATEVER the hell they please
History has shown time and again that the US can and will do what it needs to do (with or without them)
Well, times change, don't they?
You're already changing your tune. A couple of posts ago you practically demand Spain kowtow to Bush's policies.
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: bozack
and because conjur says it isn't then that means it must not be, because as we all know, conjur is the final say and the only say...
whatever nutjob
honestly who gives a rats ass what Spain, poland and the ECP think...
It's not me saying, it was Bush, remember?
Bush told us the war on Iraq was because Saddam had WMDs and was seeking more WMDs and we were in immediate danger of him using them.
And, why should we care? Because we have trade with these countries. We invest in these countries and they invest in us. But that's just a couple of reasons.
Think of someone else's viewpoint besides your own, for once.
OMG.... I actually agree with Conjur.
I will say though that with the fact that there are terrorist groups fighting the US and it's allies in Iraq makes this somewhat about terrorism now.
I think that you and I will forever disagree on why we went into Iraq though. You think it was because of GWB lies, I think it was because of Saddam lies.
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 20,134
- 7,252
- 136
We (The "Great?" danes ) are also in Iraq, and while I was against the war (which we also was a part of), because the reasons given was bullsh1t, I think it would be totally stupid to pull out any troops until the situation in Iraq gets far better. I guess it will take some years, and I will support sending troops to help for that time.
Basically if the politicians had given the "REAL"* reasons and had a better plan for the post-war I could have suported the war.
*"REAL": Forcing democracy into the middle east trying to stabilize the region, which also would help stabilize world economy. Ending the misery of the Iraqi people. Preventing Sadam to be a destabilizing factor in the Middle East by playing "WMD hide and seek". Even if he had WMD he would never use them outside the middle east, or would able to do so. He was not a terrorist, he was a megalomaniac, he didn't want to destroy the world, he wanted to rule the Middle East and therefore claiming that he would attack any western country is completely insane. If he did so he knew he would be wiped away. He isn't stupid. He was kind of fighting a economic war, by de-stabilizing the Middle East. We do need oil in the West and as you all know loss of jobs can, while not as dramatic as a war or terror, also affect lots of people and it could also be very important in a presidential election campaign.
Basically if the politicians had given the "REAL"* reasons and had a better plan for the post-war I could have suported the war.
*"REAL": Forcing democracy into the middle east trying to stabilize the region, which also would help stabilize world economy. Ending the misery of the Iraqi people. Preventing Sadam to be a destabilizing factor in the Middle East by playing "WMD hide and seek". Even if he had WMD he would never use them outside the middle east, or would able to do so. He was not a terrorist, he was a megalomaniac, he didn't want to destroy the world, he wanted to rule the Middle East and therefore claiming that he would attack any western country is completely insane. If he did so he knew he would be wiped away. He isn't stupid. He was kind of fighting a economic war, by de-stabilizing the Middle East. We do need oil in the West and as you all know loss of jobs can, while not as dramatic as a war or terror, also affect lots of people and it could also be very important in a presidential election campaign.
:Q :Q
That's what the scary part is. Bush has brought terrorism to Iraq due to our presence. And it's not necessarily Al Qaeda members performing the attacks. Al Qaeda has apparently been training Saddam loyalists in the art of terrorism.
Well, the report that came out with that database of mistruths and deceptions pretty much convinced me that Bush sold us a bill of goods. Just like he did in 2000. That's why I feel really deceived. I have seen the errors of my ways. I did originally support Bush in the war on Iraq because I believed his lies (search the archives up here...the threads are there somewhere.) I hang my head in shame now and will try to rectify my mistakes by voting for Kerry.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter