All F-117 Stealth Fighters to be retired in 2008

[TehMac]

The F-117 most likely has a smaller radar signature, because of its shape. The Raptor is shaped more like a conventional fighter, with a certain design and radar absorbing materials.
The Raptor is faster, as well as able to carry more weapons (I think) as well as having a nice gun in its side.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: TehMac
The F-117 most likely has a smaller radar signature, because of its shape. The Raptor is shaped more like a conventional fighter, with a certain design and radar absorbing materials.
The Raptor is faster, as well as able to carry more weapons (I think) as well as having a nice gun in its side.

No one that can truly answer your question, will. The theory is that the F-22 has a similar RCS, maybe a tad bigger but not enough to matter.

Supposedly, the driving factor in the retirement of the F-117 is that the RAM that the plane is coated in is not durable at all and is extrememly expensive per hour of flight. That coupled with the fact that the plane is really suited for only one role (Unexpected tactical strike behind enemy lines) makes just about any modern plane a better choice.

Also worth noting that the F-22 can carry bombs inside it's weapons bay, giving it the same strike capability as the F-117 considering the latter's extremely limited load capaciy. It is suspected that the F-22 can carry 2 bombs (same as F-117) and 2 Sidewinders inside weapons bays.

Pic

Considering the world climate today, I doubt that the stretch FB-22 ever enters production. There are too many other workable strike packages; F-22s striking AA emplacements, other assets (B-52, B-1, A-10, F-15E) striking HVT. B-2 striking HVT with F-22 as escort.

I think you'll see a navalized F-22 to replace the F-14 before you see a FB-22.

 

[TehMac]

Good point Mathews, also, rumor has it that Russians recovered a crashed F-117, and analyzed the paint material or something. So who knows? I heard this somewhere, I can't really comment on it all that much. The navalized version of the F-22 is the F-35.


The FB-22 is HIGHLY unlikely. And the Raptor can also have pylons mounted on the wing's hard points, but this is really for air superiority, and not for strike missions, I'd imagine.

The WILD WEASELS might end up using F-15Es if they don't already.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Fritzo
The thing is, it's not really even a fighter- it's a light bomber. WIth it's poor payload, other more advanced planes can do a better job. It's hard to believe the design of that plane is 30 years old! :Q

So what will be replacing it? Does the F-22 come in a light bomber configuration?

the F-35, which is faster, stealthier, less expensive to operate, and carries a bigger payload, in addition to being much more versatile, is the replacement stealth strike fighter.

Originally posted by: TehMac
The F-117 most likely has a smaller radar signature, because of its shape. The Raptor is shaped more like a conventional fighter, with a certain design and radar absorbing materials.
The Raptor is faster, as well as able to carry more weapons (I think) as well as having a nice gun in its side.

nope, the F117 has a bigger radar cross section. the geometric design of the F117 was dictated by the computing technology available at the time. the B2 was developed with much better computers so it could use compound curves, and has a lower radar signature than the F117 because of it.

now our computers are so fast we can make stealth shapes that look like normal airplanes. the F22 has an absolutely tiny radar signature. additionally, the radar absorbing material is much more advanced than those used on earlier 1-3 generation stealth planes. it probably absorbs radar better and doesn't require specialized facilities just to house the plane.

radar signatures: F117 > B2 > F22




as for a discussion of fighter bomber variants of the F22, not likely for a while. it was designated F/A-22 for a bit, but that was cancelled and it went back to F22. it may maintain that capability without telling, though. wouldn't put it past them.

 

[AndrewR]

Everyone in this discussion might want to also consider that "stealth" involves more than just radar cross section. If you keep that in mind, you might be able to better assess the relative stealthiness of the F-117 vs. the F-22A.

fly by wire is not the same as computer assist.

The distinction is only a matter of degree, not configuration, as I understand it. Even the F-16, with a fairly conventional design, requires a fair amount of computer aid. Nevertheless, the less stable an aircraft is, and therefore the greater amount of "assist" required, the more maneuverable it will be.

Forward swept wing aircraft like the X-29 or the Su-47 come to mind.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: ed21x

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Fritzo
The thing is, it's not really even a fighter- it's a light bomber. WIth it's poor payload, other more advanced planes can do a better job. It's hard to believe the design of that plane is 30 years old! :Q

So what will be replacing it? Does the F-22 come in a light bomber configuration?

Most modern day "fighter" jets come in with pylons on the wings, or in the case of the Raptor (and possibly Lightening) a bomb bay (meant to preserve the stealth signature). These pylons (or bomb bays) enable pilots to mount on cluster bombs, sidewinders, sparrows, gun pods (although now adays, the gun mounted in the nose or side of the aircraft is enough).

The f-35 CTOL should have the capabilities to replace the f-15E. The future air force is going to be extremely lean, with the EA-6 being replaced by the F-18G, A-10 by the F-35 VSTOL, and F-18E/F by the F-35 STOL. Standardization of platforms will really cut down on maintenance costs, etc. Also, all new Naval platforms are focusing on automation, with new ships requiring less than half the manpower of their present-day counterparts for the same effectiveness.

Looks like the A-10 will be around for quite a while though. Not sure if the F-35A will be able to fully replace it. The A-10 is already cheap to produce and has shown extreme durability for CAS missions. It was specifically developed due to the shortcomings of faster, more advanced jets. It is a great thing to have a high-tech edge over your enemy, but you cannot let them get a low-tech advantage either.

The A-10

 

[imported_Imp]

Kinda surprised, but I can see why. It can't exactly carry much, and it's not like the stealth is really needed anymore.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
Everyone in this discussion might want to also consider that "stealth" involves more than just radar cross section. If you keep that in mind, you might be able to better assess the relative stealthiness of the F-117 vs. the F-22A.

fly by wire is not the same as computer assist.

The distinction is only a matter of degree, not configuration, as I understand it. Even the F-16, with a fairly conventional design, requires a fair amount of computer aid. Nevertheless, the less stable an aircraft is, and therefore the greater amount of "assist" required, the more maneuverable it will be.

Forward swept wing aircraft like the X-29 or the Su-47 come to mind.

Right, the plane in question is impossible to fly stable if the plane computer 'dies'. An F-16 a pilot AFAIK can fly it decently without it.

 

[alfa147x]

Those are some beautifully planes wish i could afford one