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Alibaba, esources, dropshipping and scams. Need some help. NOW with PAYPAL TALK!

Cuda1447

Cuda1447

Lifer
Alright, I'm going a little crazy here. I am in the process of opening up a website selling a variety of products. The last hurdle I'm running into is actually getting the products. Perhaps I'm just ultra-paranoid, but my time on the internet has taught me to be.

First of all, I'm looking for dropshippers and/or manufacturer/suppliers. My order quantities will likely be small initially.

I have google searched for specific products. Most times I'm finding what I deem are middlemen. Not true manufacturers or dropshippers.

I've contacted a ton of manufacturers via aliexprss and alibaba. I've found quite a few products I like and good prices. Unfortunately, I'm very tentative to place an order with them. Most have refused to use an escrow service or paypal (I want buyer protection). Those suppliers are out. There are a few that have agreed to use paypal. I am more likely to try something with them, but to be honest the entire process has left a very bad taste in my mouth. It just seems like I'm asking to get scammed from anyone on alibaba.

I've searched for wholesale specific forums. But most of those seem like bullshit forums setup with fake accounts just advertising for or against certain services. I just don't trust them.

The one source that seems to have a good reputation is esources. They claim to have thousands of suppliers for various products. However they require a monthly membership fee to get access to this. Without having someone I trust give me a review, I don't want to give them my money either.


Surely someone here has some experience in this field. Anandtech forums seem to be the only source on the internet that I will trust. Probably because I know most of you bastards already and know who to ignore 😛.

Seriously though, any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
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What type of products and where do you want them sourced? China? If so, let me know. I have an uncle who is in the toy manufacturing and distributing business. And by "in" I mean that he sources and distributes toys for Disney, Matel, etc. If you bought a matchbox car in the 70-80's in the U.S., chances are his company sourced the Chinese manufacturing and U.S. distribution.

Send me a PM with some specifics and I'll see if I can get him to answer your questions. No promises, but he is a nice guy and might be willing to help you out.
 
If you have any doubt about a site check the ICE website

11-26-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/132-online-counterfeit-sites-seized-cyber-monday-blitz-180604626--sector.html

132 online counterfeit sites seized in Cyber Monday blitz



U.S. and European authorities seized 132 domain names in a counterfeit goods crackdown linked to Cyber Monday, the online bargain day, the head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said.


ICE agents seized 101 domain names in the United States and 31 were taken over by officers in Britain, Romania, Belgium, France and Denmark and by Europol, the European Police Office, ICE Director John Morton said.

The crackdown marks the third year that ICE has targeted websites selling counterfeit goods on Cyber Monday, the online shopping spree.

The Cyber Monday seizures raise the total number of U.S. sites taken over to 1,630 since ICE began its anti-counterfeit campaign in June 2010.


PayPal accounts identified with the sites and holding a total of more than $175,000 are being targeted for seizure, the ICE statement said.

Morton put the scale of online piracy in the billions of dollars.
 
I know 2 people who used alibaba and both got scammed, i'm sure it is possible to do business on there but I certainly wouldn't trust anyone from that website.
 
Puppies04 said:
I know 2 people who used alibaba and both got scammed, i'm sure it is possible to do business on there but I certainly wouldn't trust anyone from that website.
Click to expand...


Do you happen to know any of the details of those transactions? What type of research did they do on the companies? Did they use escrow or paypal for payments? Any details would be helpful.
 
Bump.

Also another question. Does anyone know much about Paypals dispute policies? If I am able to place an order via paypal, how much protection will I really have using paypal? Are they actually on the buyers side, or are they likely to give me a hard time about disputing a transaction?
 
I don't know anything about dealing with wholesalers, but for personal use, I make initial small orders, and if I'm happy with the procedure, I make big orders. Maybe you could do something like that?
 
Have you looked into the headaches of getting the goods here yet? It's a lot of work even when you have shipping and customs brokers to handle the majority of it, and I don't see you making much of anything after paying all the shipping and broker fees involved when your not ordering in bulk. Tons of paperwork involved and any form that is off just a tiny bit is going to delay the shipment at best, lose it at worst.

That's all after trying to find a reliable source and dealing with QA. If you go to China you can visit trade fairs, meet people to take you around, handle translation, perform QA, etc. They have trade fairs to find manufacturers in the larger cities. Company I work for now sent a few people out there looking to find a manufacturer that could make some goods for us, but they ended up wasting so much time just weeding out these companies who have factories all over the country, that they eventually gave up as it was so time consuming.

When I lived in Asia I met many people who tried, and only a few who succeeded in the import/export business. Most of the successful ones were the middle-men who handled QA, shipping, customs, payment, and such, as there were always a ton of people looking to get into this who didn't have a clue where to start, but had money to pay someone else to get it done.

IMO, start off with local sources from companies who already have the means in place to import goods, see if they have what you want already or can get the items they don't have, and find out if your site will even get any traffic and sales before investing the time, money, and multiple failures that will come with trying to do this on the cheap. If you're moving $50k - $100k per month in goods, then would be a good time to start thinking about sourcing on your own, but even then you're going to find it's a lot work and whatever you may end up saving on products you'll spend on the getting them here. I have no idea what volume is necessary to start thinking about sourcing goods directly from the manufacturer, but IMO $50k/month would be the absolute low end and involves a lot of risk, work, and learning experience for little if any gain.
 
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Lifted said:
Have you looked into the headaches of getting the goods here yet? It's a lot of work even when you have shipping and customs brokers to handle the majority of it, and I don't see you making much of anything after paying all the shipping and broker fees involved when your not ordering in bulk. Tons of paperwork involved and any form that is off just a tiny bit is going to delay the shipment at best, lose it at worst.

That's all after trying to find a reliable source and dealing with QA. If you go to China you can visit trade fairs, meet people to take you around, handle translation, perform QA, etc. They have trade fairs to find manufacturers in the larger cities. Company I work for now sent a few people out there looking to find a manufacturer that could make some goods for us, but they ended up wasting so much time just weeding out these companies who have factories all over the country, that they eventually gave up as it was so time consuming.

When I lived in Asia I met many people who tried, and only a few who succeeded in the import/export business. Most of the successful ones were the middle-men who handled QA, shipping, customs, payment, and such, as there were always a ton of people looking to get into this who didn't have a clue where to start, but had money to pay someone else to get it done.

IMO, start off with local sources from companies who already have the means in place to import goods, see if they have what you want already or can get the items they don't have, and find out if your site will even get any traffic and sales before investing the time, money, and multiple failures that will come with trying to do this on the cheap. If you're moving $50k - $100k per month in goods, then would be a good time to start thinking about sourcing on your own, but even then you're going to find it's a lot work and whatever you may end up saving on products you'll spend on the getting them here. I have no idea what volume is necessary to start thinking about sourcing goods directly from the manufacturer, but IMO $50k/month would be the absolute low end and involves a lot of risk, work, and learning experience for little if any gain.
Click to expand...



Good thoughts. I have considered just getting my products locally, the problem is I'm having a heck of a hard time finding them locally. Maybe my google search skills just aren't cutting it. I think I need to approach this from a different angle...
 
WilliamM2 said:
PayPal only offers protection for items purchased through Ebay. Anything else is a crap shoot.
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Whaa? eBay may only offer buyer protection when paid with PayPal, but PayPal does indeed offer same for purchases elsewhere. I actually opened a dispute against dealextreme recently but did not go further since the item was delivered shortly thereafter.

To OP, it seems late in the game to merely resell commodity items based upon price disparity and especially with costs rising. It makes sense if having your own product made but otherwise has slim margins based upon volume which anyone can out do you on at any time. At best, it would require focussing on a niche that larger companies cannot be arsed with. Still, the risk of holding a stock of items is necessary to at least have that advantage of availability over the sellers in Asia who can still undercut you if the customer is merely willing to wait for delivery. And if it is technology then it is at risk of quick obsolescence, or falling out of favour otherwise.
 
Auric said:
Whaa? eBay may only offer buyer protection when paid with PayPal, but PayPal does indeed offer same for purchases elsewhere. I actually opened a dispute against dealextreme recently but did not go further since the item was delivered shortly thereafter.

To OP, it seems late in the game to merely resell commodity items based upon price disparity and especially with costs rising. It makes sense if having your own product made but otherwise has slim margins based upon volume which anyone can out do you on at any time. At best, it would require focussing on a niche that larger companies cannot be arsed with. Still, the risk of holding a stock of items is necessary to at least have that advantage of availability over the sellers in Asia who can still undercut you if the customer is merely willing to wait for delivery. And if it is technology then it is at risk of quick obsolescence, or falling out of favour otherwise.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the info Auric. It seems you have some experience in this field. Just so that I'm clear, Paypal does in fact protect me on international transactions? Unless I'm missing something, if I can get a supplier to agree to take payment via paypal, I should be 100% covered. If something goes awry I just dispute the transaction, correct? How is paypal with handling these types of disputes? I was under the impression they were very buyer friendly?


As for the specific products, I do have a niche product I'm selling, so that isn't a huge concern of me. If you have any suggestions on where else to look for products I'm all ears.
 
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