Algae used as alternative biofuel?

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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this idea about algae being our panacea is bordering on comedy. How will it scale?
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
this idea about algae being our panacea is bordering on comedy. How will it scale?

That's the problem with hype of this kinda... something shows good promise in the lab or as proof of concept (algae being 10x more efficient than corn, carbon sequestering, organic solar panels etc), but mass production is hard and many years away (if ever)
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
this idea about algae being our panacea is bordering on comedy. How will it scale?

Havn't seen that phrase in a while heh (panacea)

I agree though, are we going to have Algae farms?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Skoorb
this idea about algae being our panacea is bordering on comedy. How will it scale?

Havn't seen that phrase in a while heh (panacea)

I agree though, are we going to have Algae farms?
Yes, will we have great massive algae farms? Will we flood great holes in the desert with seawater and just create vast miles and miles of algae to put into our SUVs? How's that going to work? It's all just so funny, it's about as funny as terrorists strapping bombs to dolphins and training them to attack ships, like just hysterical.

EdIT: I realize my tone there makes little sense. I will leave it for any comedy's sake (if applicable) :)
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Skoorb
this idea about algae being our panacea is bordering on comedy. How will it scale?

Havn't seen that phrase in a while heh (panacea)

I agree though, are we going to have Algae farms?

There was a great piece in National Geographic last year where they discussed how it might work in the future. The way they talk, there are multiple factors that make it exciting, but as yet, unprofitable:

...But most say that algae?single-celled pond scum?comes closer than any other plant because it grows in wastewater, even seawater, requiring little more than sunlight and carbon dioxide to flourish....

...the company has developed a process that uses algae in plastic bags to siphon carbon dioxide from the smoke-stack emissions of power plants. Algae not only reduce a plant's global warming gases, but also devour other pollutants. Some algae make starch, which can be processed into ethanol; others produce tiny droplets of oil that can be brewed into biodiesel or even jet fuel. Best of all, algae in the right conditions can double in mass within hours. While each acre of corn produces around 300 gallons (1,135 liters) of ethanol a year and an acre of soybeans around 60 gallons (227 liters) of biodiesel, each acre of algae theoretically can churn out more than 5,000 gallons (19,000 liters) of biofuel each year.

"Corn or soybeans, you harvest once a year," says Berzin. "Algae you harvest every day. And we've proved we can grow algae from Boston to Arizona...." Algae farms around that one plant, located on 2,000 acres (809 hectares) of bone-dry Sonoran Desert, could double the current U.S. production of biodiesel, says Berzin....

With good reason: Only perhaps a dozen people on the planet know how to grow algae in high-density systems, says Gay.... Their biggest challenge, as with cellulosic ethanol, is reducing the cost of algae fuel.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic....fuels/biofuels-p6.html
 

gorobei

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Jan 7, 2007
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It's definitely more viable than any other option on the table right now.

The crop produced is either sugars/oils, petroleum hydrocarbon sub -components, and bulk protein for feed stock. The estimated amount of land area needed to fuel the US domestic need is something like the size of Arizona(smaller if they come up with better tanks). Whereas the entire corn crop of North America for one season would barely cover a fraction of ethanol demand if we converted over to E85 entirely.(according to History Channel special)

The early problems with large open ponds with high yield strains was that they were vulnerable to weather and other contaminants. More survivable strains weren't rich enough or fast growing enough. The current developers are using closed system containers to grow the rapid growth high oil content strains with a lot of success(or optimism at least.) Two types I've seen covered in the news were large plexiglass tubes the size of torpedoes or long sheets of blister pouches filled with water hung on mechanized racks that regulate sun exposure.

The company covered in the History Channel special indicated they are done with initial testing and are building a larger scale/production oriented version of their current system/factory/farm/whatever. So it's not that far off.

I'll take bio-diesel over (corn or even switchgrass)ethanol any day.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: gorobei
It's definitely more viable than any other option on the table right now.

The crop produced is either sugars/oils, petroleum hydrocarbon sub -components, and bulk protein for feed stock. The estimated amount of land area needed to fuel the US domestic need is something like the size of Arizona(smaller if they come up with better tanks). Whereas the entire corn crop of North America for one season would barely cover a fraction of ethanol demand if we converted over to E85 entirely.(according to History Channel special)

The early problems with large open ponds with high yield strains was that they were vulnerable to weather and other contaminants. More survivable strains weren't rich enough or fast growing enough. The current developers are using closed system containers to grow the rapid growth high oil content strains with a lot of success(or optimism at least.) Two types I've seen covered in the news were large plexiglass tubes the size of torpedoes or long sheets of blister pouches filled with water hung on mechanized racks that regulate sun exposure.

The company covered in the History Channel special indicated they are done with initial testing and are building a larger scale/production oriented version of their current system/factory/farm/whatever. So it's not that far off.

I'll take bio-diesel over (corn or even switchgrass)ethanol any day.

Yep. I'd rather see bio-diesel than ethanol but since I don't have a diesel vehicle - I use ethanol as mine is FFV.
But yes, the algae "farm" is quite interesting and quite viable as there are now actual production engineers making the process more controlled for the scientists. I work with bio and chem labs automating some of their stuff and it's amazing how out of touch with reality some are. They are smart as hell but if it gets outside a test tube or petri dish their eyes gloss over...:p When process and automation engineers can communicate well with the lab people things work well but that can be difficult because both sides don't understand the other's world and the constraints that may be involved. But if they can find the right team this sort of thing could be done quite quickly IMO.
 

CyberDuck

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
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I know research are beeing done at our university for life sciences. They showed a pilot plant where they grew the algea in transparent tubes exposed to sunlight. Theres still a way to go though before its really large scale. But im convinced it will be one of the answers to the fuel problem in the not so far future.

 

Unmoosical

Senior member
Feb 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: CyberDuck
I know research are beeing done at our university for life sciences. They showed a pilot plant where they grew the algea in transparent tubes exposed to sunlight. Theres still a way to go though before its really large scale. But im convinced it will be one of the answers to the fuel problem in the not so far future.

I guess your university is doing something like this....

CNN video. Sorry to those that don't like them. :(

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid...l.cnn?iref=videosearch
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
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I agree though, are we going to have Algae farms?

You can vertical to some extent with algae farms, and the land area required as compared to corn is much much less once you do (already factoring in the 10x energy by mass). We spent some time during Future in Review with Dr. Craig Venter discussing exactly this. Probably a decade out, but definately promising.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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You can have massive mid-ocean farms of algae simply by coating beads of foam with iron particulates and widely dispersing them on the surface of the open water. You let the mass float for a few days and harvest the natural algae explosion. This was a concept covered in the 80's.

Instead of creating these massive algae swarms, why not harvest the red tides and test the algae as fuel theory out?
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
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Instead of creating these massive algae swarms, why not harvest the red tides and test the algae as fuel theory out?

Because we are discussing bio-engineered algea not normal algea (engineered to maximize the energy output). As such, it wont (in theory) be released into the wild.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
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I heard something about nanotubes being used in Solar Panels to run up the efficientcy to 40+ %! :) Now that's Awesome!


As for algae, I think I got some growing in my toilet, think I can get a quarter gallon out of it? :p




 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
this idea about algae being our panacea is bordering on comedy. How will it scale?

I worked in a shellfish hatchery 20 years ago where we harvested continual batches of many types of tropical algae to feed the larva and young shellfish by the millions.
The technology was not overly complex or expensive.
The algae were raised in 10 foot tall plastic bags surrounded by growlights if one were to logically move to the next step for fuel the algea could then be transferred to larger tanks and or ponds. In the right climate the harvest could be year round , In a colder climate probably only in the summer without an artificial heat source. ( I am assuming a tropical algea and not a cold water speices)

That was a fairly simple setup, I am sure that 20 years later it has been refined and sophisticated even more.
It certainly is not a thing that is impossible. And in fact should be explored more.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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They should be pumping CO2 into corn fields. Corn is generally pretty starved of it because it converts it so quickly.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: MadRat
They should be pumping CO2 into corn fields. Corn is generally pretty starved of it because it converts it so quickly.

i've heard that corn feilds can suffer without wind because it sucks all the co2 out that quick.