Alex Smith vs Aaron Rodgers
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Originally posted by: NeoV
miniMUNCH, you would get the award for one of the better sports posts of the day, but there are two big problems.....
Aaron Rodgers isn't an accurate passer? Do me a favor and look up his completion percentage, then check back with us....and the Mike Williams part of your post? There isn't a corner in the NFL who can cover him? Ask Champ Bailey about that, then get back to us.
Don't get me wrong, I like Mike Williams, and I think he'll be a good player - but he's much closer to Keyshawn Johnson than he is to Randy Moss. He simply doesn't have the elite speed to be in the category of "can't be covered one-on-one". Randy Moss is the only receiver in the NFL in that category right now, period. Don't forget that corners in the NFL are much stronger than corners in the Pac-10. While he should have success pushing free at the line, his speed will not enable him to pull away from people who will try to jam him, even if he's successful in getting into his route - again, I like him as a WR, and a top 12 pick, I'm just trying to temper the high praise you heaped on him there...
This is hard for me to say being an OSU grad, but Braylon Edwards is a great WR - I think he's the best WR in the draft and a sure-fire impact player from day 1.
I like the rest of your post, but to be completely honest, I'm not sure either of these 2 guys are franchise QB's.....The 'telford' system has produced some guys who looked great in college, but have been average at best in the NFL - and the career charts of Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers look very similar, which isn't a great thing...
Smith can play, and he is more mobile than Rodgers by far (sofaking, they are no where close in mobility - even if there 40 times were similar, there really is a huge difference), and apparently he's quite intelligent - I think if they were in last year's draft, they would have been picked behind Manning, Rivers, and Big Ben - likely in the 12-16th picks range.
OH, one last thing......Tim Rattay is not very good - poor arm strength, poor size, poor mobility, poor health.....basically he's not very good - he had a few good games the previous season when they still had TO, but clearly most of that was on TO, not Rattay. The 49'ers do need a QB, I'm just not sure that either of these guys are the best pick for them right now. I think they should trade down, several times if possible, and accumulate as many picks in rounds 1-4 as possible...trouble is there isn't much demand for the top pick this year!
I'm not saying Rogers isn't an accurate...I am saying that his insane accuracy doesn't show up every game. I am a native Californian and follow Pac-10 sports very carfefully...I saw most all Cal's games and followed Rogers the past 2 years because I know he's good). He had some great showings (USC) and some bad showings (Texas Tech).
Going back to Williams. 40-yard dash speed is overrated. Most NFL corners are 4.4-4.5 guys and lose 0.2-0.3 on grass with pad's on. 'Rangey' long striders like Williams typically run well in pads and run well on grass [in comparison to track surfaces]. Look at Drew Bennett...he's was a mid 4.5's 40 yard guy yet is a very good long ball WR in the nfl because he is tall and has good flat speed.
Williams has good flat speed and is 6'5" 230 with great hands and great strength for a WR. deep routes and crossing routes are all about getting off the line, juking your cover, and flat speed.
When I say that Williams is not coverable by any CB one-on-one I don't mean that Williams can burn any corner in the league...is defintely not the case. As you said, only Moss, Johnson (at Cincy), Lee Evans, and mybe a small hand full other WR's can consistently burn 1on1 coverage. I mean that even if the CB has Williams blanketed, Williams will catch a jump ball 60-70% of time against some 6-0 190 lbs corner, and much more against the majority of nfl corners who are smaller. Ask Champ Bailey if he'd want to cover williams 1on1 on a 'skinny post' route or a fade route to the end zone...I bet Champ would honestly say that coverage scheme is just begging for 6 points because Champ can't tussle with Williams for a 50/50 ball and expect to do well very often.
The cardinals finally realized towards the end of season that Larry Fitzgerald is uncoverable in the same fashion...A CB can stick with him put can't out play him for the ball...Fitz had 5 TD's the last 3 games of season...4 of them were complete 50/50 jump balls that he flat out won the battle for. And some the them were like 30 yard fade routes and crazy sh1t like that.
I agree with most everthing you said about Edwards and still concede that he'll be the first WR selected...he has Roy Williams like potential.
Originally posted by: dr150
Rodgers is more accurate and has a stronger arm.
Smith exhibited to be more mobile, but that's b/c the offense was run like that.
No question Rodgers.....though Smith will be a fine QB--especially with his big brain to remember complex NFL playbooks.
I think the arm strength battle is a toss up. Accuracy goes to Rogers by a small margin, IMO. Although, Rogers had some games where he was one of the most accurate passers I think I've ever seen....other games I saw him completely botch routine wide open routes.
Also, Smith is the much more mobile of the two...athletically, Rogers is solid...I'm not knocking Rogers speedor potential. But Smith is used to running option plays, throwing from designed roll outs, etc... he ran for a 70 TD off an option running play for crying out loud. Smith is a bona fide solid running, scrambling QB...Rogers is a pocket passer with good athleticism but he seldom looked dangerous on the run in college.
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: dr150
Rodgers is more accurate and has a stronger arm.
Smith exhibited to be more mobile, but that's b/c the offense was run like that.
No question Rodgers.....though Smith will be a fine QB--especially with his big brain to remember complex NFL playbooks.
I think the arm strength battle is a toss up. Accuracy goes to Rogers by a small margin, IMO. Although, Rogers had some games where he was one of the most accurate passers I think I've ever seen....other games I saw him completely botch routine wide open routes.
Also, Smith is the much more mobile of the two...athletically, Rogers is solid...I'm not knocking Rogers speedor potential. But Smith is used to running option plays, throwing from designed roll outs, etc... he ran for a 70 TD off an option running play for crying out loud. Smith is a bona fide solid running, scrambling QB...Rogers is a pocket passer with good athleticism but he seldom looked dangerous on the run in college.
It's Rodgers, with a D.
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: NeoV
miniMUNCH, you would get the award for one of the better sports posts of the day, but there are two big problems.....
Aaron Rodgers isn't an accurate passer? Do me a favor and look up his completion percentage, then check back with us....and the Mike Williams part of your post? There isn't a corner in the NFL who can cover him? Ask Champ Bailey about that, then get back to us.
Don't get me wrong, I like Mike Williams, and I think he'll be a good player - but he's much closer to Keyshawn Johnson than he is to Randy Moss. He simply doesn't have the elite speed to be in the category of "can't be covered one-on-one". Randy Moss is the only receiver in the NFL in that category right now, period. Don't forget that corners in the NFL are much stronger than corners in the Pac-10. While he should have success pushing free at the line, his speed will not enable him to pull away from people who will try to jam him, even if he's successful in getting into his route - again, I like him as a WR, and a top 12 pick, I'm just trying to temper the high praise you heaped on him there...
This is hard for me to say being an OSU grad, but Braylon Edwards is a great WR - I think he's the best WR in the draft and a sure-fire impact player from day 1.
I like the rest of your post, but to be completely honest, I'm not sure either of these 2 guys are franchise QB's.....The 'telford' system has produced some guys who looked great in college, but have been average at best in the NFL - and the career charts of Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers look very similar, which isn't a great thing...
Smith can play, and he is more mobile than Rodgers by far (sofaking, they are no where close in mobility - even if there 40 times were similar, there really is a huge difference), and apparently he's quite intelligent - I think if they were in last year's draft, they would have been picked behind Manning, Rivers, and Big Ben - likely in the 12-16th picks range.
OH, one last thing......Tim Rattay is not very good - poor arm strength, poor size, poor mobility, poor health.....basically he's not very good - he had a few good games the previous season when they still had TO, but clearly most of that was on TO, not Rattay. The 49'ers do need a QB, I'm just not sure that either of these guys are the best pick for them right now. I think they should trade down, several times if possible, and accumulate as many picks in rounds 1-4 as possible...trouble is there isn't much demand for the top pick this year!
I'm not saying Rogers isn't an accurate...I am saying that his insane accuracy doesn't show up every game. I am a native Californian and follow Pac-10 sports very carfefully...I saw most all Cal's games and followed Rogers the past 2 years because I know he's good). He had some great showings (USC) and some bad showings (Texas Tech).
Going back to Williams. 40-yard dash speed is overrated. Most NFL corners are 4.4-4.5 guys and lose 0.2-0.3 on grass with pad's on. 'Rangey' long striders like Williams typically run well in pads and run well on grass [in comparison to track surfaces]. Look at Drew Bennett...he's was a mid 4.5's 40 yard guy yet is a very good long ball WR in the nfl because he is tall and has good flat speed.
Williams has good flat speed and is 6'5" 230 with great hands and great strength for a WR. deep routes and crossing routes are all about getting off the line, juking your cover, and flat speed.
When I say that Williams is not coverable by any CB one-on-one I don't mean that Williams can burn any corner in the league...is defintely not the case. As you said, only Moss, Johnson (at Cincy), Lee Evans, and mybe a small hand full other WR's can consistently burn 1on1 coverage. I mean that even if the CB has Williams blanketed, Williams will catch a jump ball 60-70% of time against some 6-0 190 lbs corner, and much more against the majority of nfl corners who are smaller. Ask Champ Bailey if he'd want to cover williams 1on1 on a 'skinny post' route or a fade route to the end zone...I bet Champ would honestly say that coverage scheme is just begging for 6 points because Champ can't tussle with Williams for a 50/50 ball and expect to do well very often.
The cardinals finally realized towards the end of season that Larry Fitzgerald is uncoverable in the same fashion...A CB can stick with him put can't out play him for the ball...Fitz had 5 TD's the last 3 games of season...4 of them were complete 50/50 jump balls that he flat out won the battle for. And some the them were like 30 yard fade routes and crazy sh1t like that.
I agree with most everthing you said about Edwards and still concede that he'll be the first WR selected...he has Roy Williams like potential.
lmao, you're comparing the USC game to the TT game?
In the USC game, Rodgers had all of his top receivers available. Lyman, Macarthur. In the TT game, ALL three wideouts were injured, and Rodgers threw to a group of young (with the exception of Makkonen, but he's horrible), inexperienced receivers. Most of the dropped passes were PERFECTLY thrown. It's just that the receivers played horribly. Cal simply should have run the ball.
Originally posted by: SofaKing
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: NeoV
miniMUNCH, you would get the award for one of the better sports posts of the day, but there are two big problems.....
Aaron Rodgers isn't an accurate passer? Do me a favor and look up his completion percentage, then check back with us....and the Mike Williams part of your post? There isn't a corner in the NFL who can cover him? Ask Champ Bailey about that, then get back to us.
Don't get me wrong, I like Mike Williams, and I think he'll be a good player - but he's much closer to Keyshawn Johnson than he is to Randy Moss. He simply doesn't have the elite speed to be in the category of "can't be covered one-on-one". Randy Moss is the only receiver in the NFL in that category right now, period. Don't forget that corners in the NFL are much stronger than corners in the Pac-10. While he should have success pushing free at the line, his speed will not enable him to pull away from people who will try to jam him, even if he's successful in getting into his route - again, I like him as a WR, and a top 12 pick, I'm just trying to temper the high praise you heaped on him there...
This is hard for me to say being an OSU grad, but Braylon Edwards is a great WR - I think he's the best WR in the draft and a sure-fire impact player from day 1.
I like the rest of your post, but to be completely honest, I'm not sure either of these 2 guys are franchise QB's.....The 'telford' system has produced some guys who looked great in college, but have been average at best in the NFL - and the career charts of Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers look very similar, which isn't a great thing...
Smith can play, and he is more mobile than Rodgers by far (sofaking, they are no where close in mobility - even if there 40 times were similar, there really is a huge difference), and apparently he's quite intelligent - I think if they were in last year's draft, they would have been picked behind Manning, Rivers, and Big Ben - likely in the 12-16th picks range.
OH, one last thing......Tim Rattay is not very good - poor arm strength, poor size, poor mobility, poor health.....basically he's not very good - he had a few good games the previous season when they still had TO, but clearly most of that was on TO, not Rattay. The 49'ers do need a QB, I'm just not sure that either of these guys are the best pick for them right now. I think they should trade down, several times if possible, and accumulate as many picks in rounds 1-4 as possible...trouble is there isn't much demand for the top pick this year!
I'm not saying Rogers isn't an accurate...I am saying that his insane accuracy doesn't show up every game. I am a native Californian and follow Pac-10 sports very carfefully...I saw most all Cal's games and followed Rogers the past 2 years because I know he's good). He had some great showings (USC) and some bad showings (Texas Tech).
Going back to Williams. 40-yard dash speed is overrated. Most NFL corners are 4.4-4.5 guys and lose 0.2-0.3 on grass with pad's on. 'Rangey' long striders like Williams typically run well in pads and run well on grass [in comparison to track surfaces]. Look at Drew Bennett...he's was a mid 4.5's 40 yard guy yet is a very good long ball WR in the nfl because he is tall and has good flat speed.
Williams has good flat speed and is 6'5" 230 with great hands and great strength for a WR. deep routes and crossing routes are all about getting off the line, juking your cover, and flat speed.
When I say that Williams is not coverable by any CB one-on-one I don't mean that Williams can burn any corner in the league...is defintely not the case. As you said, only Moss, Johnson (at Cincy), Lee Evans, and mybe a small hand full other WR's can consistently burn 1on1 coverage. I mean that even if the CB has Williams blanketed, Williams will catch a jump ball 60-70% of time against some 6-0 190 lbs corner, and much more against the majority of nfl corners who are smaller. Ask Champ Bailey if he'd want to cover williams 1on1 on a 'skinny post' route or a fade route to the end zone...I bet Champ would honestly say that coverage scheme is just begging for 6 points because Champ can't tussle with Williams for a 50/50 ball and expect to do well very often.
The cardinals finally realized towards the end of season that Larry Fitzgerald is uncoverable in the same fashion...A CB can stick with him put can't out play him for the ball...Fitz had 5 TD's the last 3 games of season...4 of them were complete 50/50 jump balls that he flat out won the battle for. And some the them were like 30 yard fade routes and crazy sh1t like that.
I agree with most everthing you said about Edwards and still concede that he'll be the first WR selected...he has Roy Williams like potential.
lmao, you're comparing the USC game to the TT game?
In the USC game, Rodgers had all of his top receivers available. Lyman, Macarthur. In the TT game, ALL three wideouts were injured, and Rodgers threw to a group of young (with the exception of Makkonen, but he's horrible), inexperienced receivers. Most of the dropped passes were PERFECTLY thrown. It's just that the receivers played horribly. Cal simply should have run the ball.
Rodgers...sorry about that.
I saw both games...Rodgers didn't play well against TT especially in comparison to the USC game. MaCarthur played in the TT game albeit he was only about 80% or so and Lyman broke his leg early in the USC game; my point, the WR cores in the two games were not that different.
Cal should've ran JJ a lot more and done something other than play soft zone defense all game. Chase Lyman was awesome early in the year and his injury was a big hit to CAL's attack...I hope he fully recovers and, should that be the case, I expect him to be All-American caliber next year.
Edit: my grammar skills have vanished, apparently...
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: SofaKing
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: NeoV
miniMUNCH, you would get the award for one of the better sports posts of the day, but there are two big problems.....
Aaron Rodgers isn't an accurate passer? Do me a favor and look up his completion percentage, then check back with us....and the Mike Williams part of your post? There isn't a corner in the NFL who can cover him? Ask Champ Bailey about that, then get back to us.
Don't get me wrong, I like Mike Williams, and I think he'll be a good player - but he's much closer to Keyshawn Johnson than he is to Randy Moss. He simply doesn't have the elite speed to be in the category of "can't be covered one-on-one". Randy Moss is the only receiver in the NFL in that category right now, period. Don't forget that corners in the NFL are much stronger than corners in the Pac-10. While he should have success pushing free at the line, his speed will not enable him to pull away from people who will try to jam him, even if he's successful in getting into his route - again, I like him as a WR, and a top 12 pick, I'm just trying to temper the high praise you heaped on him there...
This is hard for me to say being an OSU grad, but Braylon Edwards is a great WR - I think he's the best WR in the draft and a sure-fire impact player from day 1.
I like the rest of your post, but to be completely honest, I'm not sure either of these 2 guys are franchise QB's.....The 'telford' system has produced some guys who looked great in college, but have been average at best in the NFL - and the career charts of Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers look very similar, which isn't a great thing...
Smith can play, and he is more mobile than Rodgers by far (sofaking, they are no where close in mobility - even if there 40 times were similar, there really is a huge difference), and apparently he's quite intelligent - I think if they were in last year's draft, they would have been picked behind Manning, Rivers, and Big Ben - likely in the 12-16th picks range.
OH, one last thing......Tim Rattay is not very good - poor arm strength, poor size, poor mobility, poor health.....basically he's not very good - he had a few good games the previous season when they still had TO, but clearly most of that was on TO, not Rattay. The 49'ers do need a QB, I'm just not sure that either of these guys are the best pick for them right now. I think they should trade down, several times if possible, and accumulate as many picks in rounds 1-4 as possible...trouble is there isn't much demand for the top pick this year!
I'm not saying Rogers isn't an accurate...I am saying that his insane accuracy doesn't show up every game. I am a native Californian and follow Pac-10 sports very carfefully...I saw most all Cal's games and followed Rogers the past 2 years because I know he's good). He had some great showings (USC) and some bad showings (Texas Tech).
Going back to Williams. 40-yard dash speed is overrated. Most NFL corners are 4.4-4.5 guys and lose 0.2-0.3 on grass with pad's on. 'Rangey' long striders like Williams typically run well in pads and run well on grass [in comparison to track surfaces]. Look at Drew Bennett...he's was a mid 4.5's 40 yard guy yet is a very good long ball WR in the nfl because he is tall and has good flat speed.
Williams has good flat speed and is 6'5" 230 with great hands and great strength for a WR. deep routes and crossing routes are all about getting off the line, juking your cover, and flat speed.
When I say that Williams is not coverable by any CB one-on-one I don't mean that Williams can burn any corner in the league...is defintely not the case. As you said, only Moss, Johnson (at Cincy), Lee Evans, and mybe a small hand full other WR's can consistently burn 1on1 coverage. I mean that even if the CB has Williams blanketed, Williams will catch a jump ball 60-70% of time against some 6-0 190 lbs corner, and much more against the majority of nfl corners who are smaller. Ask Champ Bailey if he'd want to cover williams 1on1 on a 'skinny post' route or a fade route to the end zone...I bet Champ would honestly say that coverage scheme is just begging for 6 points because Champ can't tussle with Williams for a 50/50 ball and expect to do well very often.
The cardinals finally realized towards the end of season that Larry Fitzgerald is uncoverable in the same fashion...A CB can stick with him put can't out play him for the ball...Fitz had 5 TD's the last 3 games of season...4 of them were complete 50/50 jump balls that he flat out won the battle for. And some the them were like 30 yard fade routes and crazy sh1t like that.
I agree with most everthing you said about Edwards and still concede that he'll be the first WR selected...he has Roy Williams like potential.
lmao, you're comparing the USC game to the TT game?
In the USC game, Rodgers had all of his top receivers available. Lyman, Macarthur. In the TT game, ALL three wideouts were injured, and Rodgers threw to a group of young (with the exception of Makkonen, but he's horrible), inexperienced receivers. Most of the dropped passes were PERFECTLY thrown. It's just that the receivers played horribly. Cal simply should have run the ball.
Rodgers...sorry about that.
I saw the both games...Rodgers didn't play well against TT especially in comparison to the USC game. MaCarthur played in the TT game albeit he was only about 80% or so and Lyman broke his leg early in the USC game; my point, the WR cores in the two games were not that different.
Cal should've ran JJ a lot more and done something other than play soft zone defense all game. Chase Lyman was awesome early in the year and his injury was a big hit to CAL's attack...I hope he fully recovers and, should that be the case, I expect him to be All-American caliber next year.
Oh, there was a HUGE difference in the receiver corps. It was the receivers' faults in the Holiday Bowl, no doubt. Jonathan Makkonen, the top receiver in the game played flat out horrible. He dropped passes galore, as did Robert Jordan, the freshman receiver. There WAS a large difference despite the fact that Chase Lyman was out early in the game. MacArthur at 80 or 90% is better than Makkonen and Jordan combined. But yeah, I can't base it only on the receivers, since Aaron was on fire in that USC game. Rodgers was average at best in the TT game, but with his top receivers, I'd think he would've done better.
Lyman might be back, but I doubt it. I doubt the NCAA will give him a 6th year. Though it'd be great if he's back. With Lavelle Hawkins, DeSean Jackson and Chase Lyman, Cal will have great depth at the wide receiver position.
EndlessDennis
Junior Member
- Feb 26, 2005
- 16
- 0
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Originally posted by: EndlessDennis
Uhh... Rattay has good arm strength.
No.
You'll never find a scouting report that says that.
I went to Cal, I'm a Niners guy.
I had season tickets to Cal last year, so I've seen a lot of Rodgers. He was really strong at the beginning of the year, but towards the end he tailed off. Now, some might say that's because the running game took over, but he, not just from stats, did not play as well.
I didn't watch the Bowl game, so I don't know how that went for him.
I really like Rodgers, but from what I've heard about Alex Smith, I think Steve Young. And I LOVE Steve Young.
Either way, both are having fabulous workout sessions, so I'll be happy either.
I'll still dream of a
Rodgers
Arrington
McArthur
49ers reunion in the 1st, 3rd, and 5/6th rounds though.
That would be awesome!
Also, Smith is the much more mobile of the two...athletically, Rogers is solid...I'm not knocking Rogers speedor potential. But Smith is used to running option plays, throwing from designed roll outs, etc... he ran for a 70 TD off an option running play for crying out loud. Smith is a bona fide solid running, scrambling QB...Rogers is a pocket passer with good athleticism but he seldom looked dangerous on the run in college.
Rodgers is not a runner, but he has great pocket awareness, like a Montana (bad comparison, I know). He'll never be a great scrambler, but he has the quick feet that will enable him to shift and avoid hits long enough to get the right pass out.
Boller ran that fabulous 4.6 in his workouts but he isn't that shifty. He may have straightline speed, but he was never someone who could juke people. He wasn't a threat to run, even though his speed says otherwise.
I like Boller too. But that's because he's a Bear. I'm always loyal : P
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