Alec Baldwin shoots and kills a woman, injures a man.

[imported_tajmahal]

If a car driven by an actor bursts into flames and kills the passenger, is he responsible for not inspecting and/or performing maintenance on the vehicle first?

If he doesn't have a drivers license and he is recklessly driving the car, then yes he is at fault.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

From my understanding he is being charged in his capacity as an actor. If that's the case I would bet Baldwin wins that.

Also as the producer in charge of the production and hiring.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

After he supposedly was told it was a "cold gun". Granted he should have checked personally, but the greater responsibility seems to me to be on the armorer. Since this was a revolver, it should have been relatively easy to check the cartridges, but especially in a semi auto, are you telling me the actors always remove every cartridge from the clip, check them, and replace them??

The armorer that he hired is also being charged.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Right but in Rust you have an authentic revolver so a legitimate reason to use it in a shot as opposed to a prop. The fking crazy part as you say is the live ammo. That is not something Baldwin is responsible for.

And second even if he had checked the revolver himself (which I feel is a bad idea when you have an armorer on set verifying the safety of the gun) is he supposed to know the difference between a dummy round, a blank, and a live round? It's a revolver pointed at a camera. If there aren't rounds in the chambers you can tell 5/6 chambers are empty.

You have a point that the gun when firing is off pointed from the camera, but relying on pointing 10-15 degrees off axis is a poor control. It doesn't take much an error by the actor to be pointed at something critical. The main control is the gun is NOT loaded with live rounds, has been verified to be not carrying live rounds, and then to only discharge off angle to anything important (or use special effects instead of actually discharging in camera)

As the producer he is responsible and he already knew of multiple safety problems on his set.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

You're making the assumption that he pulled the trigger. I heard a gun safety analyst say that if he had his hand on the trigger and cocked it, the gun would have went off without him actually pulling the trigger. So, there is a universe where he is not lying.

The prosecutor said they have experts examine the gun and that it didn't/wouldn't go off without the trigger being puller and that Alec Baldwin lied in his interview with Stephanapoulos.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

For the record, you believe it is negligence.

So do the prosecutors.

 

[pmv]

As the producer he is responsible and he already knew of multiple safety problems on his set.

Can't disagree with that much.

I'm fine with it being left to the jury to decide. They'll presumably hear the full story, and be told what the 'industry standard' practices are, and what the law is, and make an objective decision.

(The bit that most staggers me is that there were live rounds on set at all.)

I just hope that there are no die-hard Trump supporters or fans of Baldwin on the jury, and that the verdict is decided entirely on the merits of the case.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If he doesn't have a drivers license and he is recklessly driving the car, then yes he is at fault.

An actor is actually paid to do reckless things for our entertainment.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Baldwins job was not to secure the weapon. That's what they hired the armorer for. And I don't think we want Actors/Actresses becoming fire safety experts.

The assistant armorer plead guilty and is testifying against Baldwin and Ms. Reed the armorer. Don't forget their were multiple problems and safety concerns on the set before this happened and Alec Baldwin knew it and was responsible for fixing them.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

An actor is actually paid to do reckless things for our entertainment.

So are clowns. If they kill someone they should still be charged.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

So are clowns. If they kill someone they should still be charged.

Clowns aren't paid to pretend to shoot people with firearms they were told were safe by a professional firearms safety checker.

 

[fskimospy]

So do the prosecutors.

My bet is when he is acquitted you will declare it’s due to bias or a conspiracy. This is a dumb charge.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

For someone to die from a gunshot a bullet must be discharged and strike the person in a vital area.

In this case as in most the gun must be pointed in the direction of the victim (barring ricochets), it must have a live round, and the round must be triggered. If the weapon is in good working order the firing pin must strike the primer when trigger releases the hammer.

Standard gun safety is to never point the weapon at anyone or thing you don't intend to shoot.
To know if the gun is loaded or not
To know if there is a round in the chamber that can be fired.

The shot they were taking that day was of Baldwin pointing the gun in the direction of the camera. That was what their job was that day, so the first control against accidental discharge is basically out the window.

This isn't some crazy shot. It's been done many times before:

Goto 3:45 in this clip from Die Hard and the revolver is pointed directly at the camera

So you have to rely on the armorer to make sure the weapon is functioning correctly and not loaded with a live round.

The first and biggest error that day is a live round made it on set.
The second was that a live round was loaded into that gun
The third was it was not correctly verified to be a "cold gun"
The fourth was Baldwin was told it was cold gun.
The fifth was he was told by an associate producer and not the armorer
The sixth was the gun discharged either through a pull of the trigger, cocking the weapon with his finger on the trigger, or some unknown failure of the gun.

The fact that they let the producer have a plea deal and are going after Baldwin for significant time in jail suggests there's political motivation.

The clip at 3:45 showed safe gun handling, it's pointed at a ....camera..... not a person. It's already been established by experts it wasn't a faulty firearm. The ones that examined the actual firearm. Not a similar kinda like it firearm. David Halls assistant director has plead no contest to a negligent homicide and is going to testify against Gutierrez-Reed and Baldwin. You do know that New Mexico is a blue state?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Clowns aren't paid to pretend to shoot people with firearms they were told were safe by a professional firearms safety checker.

Sure they are, haven't you ever seen the clown BANG! guns?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Sure they are, have'nt you ever seen the clown BANG! guns?

Are you stating that from this point forward, every firearm presented in any form of film should be strictly fake, as in plastic, so there's simply no possible way to even fire it? I'm not necessarily opposed to increasing govt regulation of an industry, I just want to hear you confirm that.

 

[JD50]

It's weird how obsessed Tajy is with this case.

 

[Bitek]

Clowns aren't paid to pretend to shoot people with firearms they were told were safe by a professional firearms safety checker.

In the CNN video earlier, the expert said that he did not in fact get the gun directly from the armorer.

The "cold gun" declaration came from the assistant director, Halls, who isn't qualified or responsible to do that.

There were prop guns set out by the armourer, but she was not present. Halls picked one up, claimed it was cold (because he's a know-nothing reckless idiot), AB listened to someone not qualified without the armourer clearing it, then fired it.

This was in the affidavit.

Lots of fuck ups to go around.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Are you stating that from this point forward, every firearm presented in any form of film should be strictly fake, as in plastic, so there's simply no possible way to even fire it? I'm not necessarily opposed to increasing govt regulation of an industry, I just want to hear you confirm that.

No. Why would i confirm an idiotic regulation? I'm saying if you point a firearm at someone and pull the trigger you better be damn sure it's not loaded unless you want to cause them harm, and even then it's an idiotic thing to do. There's no reason he couldn't have been pointing that firearm in a safe direction.

 

[fskimospy]

It's weird how obsessed Tajy is with this case.

Is it really? Hahaha.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

It's weird how obsessed Tajy is with this case.

I was the OP and as such i feel an obligation to follow it up.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

No. Why would i confirm an idiotic regulation? I'm saying if you point a firearm at someone and pull the trigger you better be damn sure it's not loaded unless you want to cause them harm, and even then it's an idiotic thing to do. There's no reason he couldn't have been pointing that firearm in a safe direction.

So your concern is more for punishing the one who pulled the trigger, rather than preventing someone from being shot? That's weird, man.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

In the CNN video earlier, the expert said that he did not in fact get the gun directly from the armorer.

The "cold gun" declaration came from the assistant director, Halls, who isn't qualified or responsible to do that.

There were prop guns set out by the armourer, but she was not present. Halls picked one up, claimed it was cold (because he's a know-nothing reckless idiot), AB listened to someone not qualified without the armourer clearing it, then fired it.

This was in the affidavit.

Lots of fuck ups to go around.

Then that's a monumental fuckup. I'd still be finding who brought that live round on the set and nail them to a fucking wall.

 

[fskimospy]

I was the OP and as such i feel an obligation to follow it up.

Why do you humiliate yourself like this?

 

[Paratus]

The clip at 3:45 showed safe gun handling, it's pointed at a ....camera..... not a person. It's already been established by experts it wasn't a faulty firearm. The ones that examined the actual firearm. Not a similar kinda like it firearm. David Halls assistant director has plead no contest to a negligent homicide and is going to testify against Gutierrez-Reed and Baldwin. You do know that New Mexico is a blue state?

You may not be aware but many movie cameras have human operators. Not saying that they couldn't be left running unattended for a shot. But it's easy enough for someone to be behind the camera for the shot at 3:45 even if they weren't supposed to be.

And again, I don't particularly care if he or that he did pull the trigger. I don't see it as something reckless done by Baldwin. If the shot they wanted was him pointing the weapon at the camera and pulling the trigger then that was his job as an actor. There are ways to do that safely. The primary failure and potential negligence was that a live round was allowed onto the set and into that gun. His making fun of your preferred politician doesn't factor into whether he was negligent or not.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

You may not be aware but many movie cameras have human operators. Not saying that they couldn't be left running unattended for a shot. But it's easy enough for someone to be behind the camera for the shot at 3:45 even if they weren't supposed to be.

And again, I don't particularly care if he or that he did pull the trigger. I don't see it as something reckless done by Baldwin. If the shot they wanted was him pointing the weapon at the camera and pulling the trigger then that was his job as an actor. There are ways to do that safely. The primary failure and potential negligence was that a live round was allowed onto the set and into that gun. His making fun of your preferred politician doesn't factor into whether he was negligent or not.

Funny you say that. Just found out this site exists.

Die Hard (1988)

Die Hard (1988) tech specs : shot on Panavision Panaflex Gold Camera and Carl Zeiss Planar 50 mm f0.7 Lens (Modified by Ed DiGiulio), Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm with Kollmorgen Adaptor 36.5 mm f0.7 (Modified by Ed DiGiulio), Cooke Anamorphic Lenses, Panavision C Series Anamorphic Lenses, Panavision...

shotonwhat.com

To be sure, I wouldn't stand behind that camera with that firearm any single-digit degrees off-center without knowing it was unloaded.