Discussion Alder Lake - Builders Thread

[AdamK47]

This thread is for those of us that own or are looking to get an Alder Lake CPU.

Bought mine on release day. 12900K. Memory selection was limited to only Crucial DDR5 4800 at the Micro Center I went to. Bought two 2 x 8GB kits. Motherboard is a Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master. I did buy a 360mm Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO. Ended up returning it since the Lian Li Socket 1700 backplate that I bought separately worked well with my NZXT Kraken X73.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

I am worried this is the end for the AM4 socket and there won't be any more upgrades for the future on this particular AM4 socket. So since I would have to buy a new mobo and cpu any ways I am heavily considering snapping up a 12900k and a Z690 mobo since they are the new shiny. Plus that new PCIe Gen 5 and DDR5 gimmick has got me itching for something new. Any chance intel will pull a AMD and let users upgrade in the future on the Z690 platform?

 

[Markfw]

I am worried this is the end for the AM4 socket and there won't be any more upgrades for the future on this particular AM4 socket. So since I would have to buy a new mobo and cpu any ways I am heavily considering snapping up a 12900k and a Z690 mobo since they are the new shiny. Plus that new PCIe Gen 5 and DDR5 gimmick has got me itching for something new. Any chance intel will pull a AMD and let users upgrade in the future on the Z690 platform?

There is supposed to be one more CPU on AM4 I think, the v-cache... We will know more on Jan 4th.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

There is supposed to be one more CPU on AM4 I think, the v-cache... We will know more on Jan 4th.

Oh I didn't even know that...Thanks for the info!! That will throw a wrench into the upgrade works then and cause me to hold my horses abit and first wait to see what this v-cache upgrade will be all about.
I guess if anything I could always just stay on my platform and upgrade to a 5950x if all else fails. For now I will keep my z690 motherboard and 12900k in my cart till I hear from AMD on the 4th then.

 

[Hulk]

Hey guys, so I am really on the fence here about buying a 12900k. I am currently running a AMD 3950x on x570 Aurous Master Motherboard and need to know if there is any word as to if there will be one more CPU release for this Am4 socket or not? If not how much of a upgrade would a 12900k be? I have the 12900k in my cart right now so should I go ahead and pull the trigger or wait??

Have a look at the Anandtech Bench comparison here:

CPU 2021 Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech

CPU 2021 benchmarks: Compare two products side-by-side or see a cascading list of product ratings along with our annotations.

www.anandtech.com

While I would agree that the 5950X to the 12900K might be called a side grade, looking at these benchmark results head-to-head the 12900K is faster than the 3950X by a significant margin across the board.

 

[Markfw]

Have a look at the Anandtech Bench comparison here:

CPU 2021 Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech

CPU 2021 benchmarks: Compare two products side-by-side or see a cascading list of product ratings along with our annotations.

www.anandtech.com

While I would agree that the 5950X to the 12900K might be called a side grade, looking at these benchmark results head-to-head the 12900K is faster than the 3950X by a significant margin across the board.

Yes, I guess the 5950x is faster than the 3950x (I own both), and the 5950x would definitely be a side grade. I DID say if he was a gamer it would make a difference. The PCIE 5.0 is nothing right now, even PCIE 4.0 is quite often not worth it, and DDR5 is very expensive now. Maybe in a year....

If the v-cache turns out that it will happen soon, I bet it then becomes a nobrainer, faster than any of them.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Have a look at the Anandtech Bench comparison here:

CPU 2021 Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech

CPU 2021 benchmarks: Compare two products side-by-side or see a cascading list of product ratings along with our annotations.

www.anandtech.com

While I would agree that the 5950X to the 12900K might be called a side grade, looking at these benchmark results head-to-head the 12900K is faster than the 3950X by a significant margin across the board.

OMG wow the results from that link are insanely impressive!! the 12900k is close to twice as fast and in some benches is up to two and a half to three times faster then my 3950x . waiting till the 4th is killing me.. I have like zero patients when I want to buy something new when upgrading.

 

[Markfw]

OMG wow the results from that link are insanely impressive!! the 12900k is close to twice as fast and in some benches is up to two and a half to three times faster then my 3950x . waiting till the 4th is killing me.. I have like zero patients when I want to buy something new when upgrading.

Have a look at the below review. That set of benchmarks is largely single threaded. Compare the 5950x to the 12900k. Note the comment in the conclusion: At a retail price of around $650, the Core i9-12900K ends up being competitive between the two Ryzen 9 processors, each with their good points. " I say its a toss-up on the 5950x (better multithreaded) and 12900k or 12700k (gaming)

Note this comment"With DDR5, the 12900K is able to fully stretch its multi-threaded performance legs. In less memory dependent workloads, the chip battles it out with AMD’s 16-core 5950X, winning some workloads, losing some others. "

The Intel 12th Gen Core i9-12900K Review: Hybrid Performance Brings Hybrid Complexity

www.anandtech.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

OMG wow the results from that link are insanely impressive!! the 12900k is close to twice as fast and in some benches is up to two and a half to three times faster then my 3950x . waiting till the 4th is killing me.. I have like zero patients when I want to buy something new when upgrading.

It's not impressive when you consider that 12900K uses up more than 200W to score those wins. If you have a specific use case where you are desperate to gain speed at any cost, 12900K might make sense. Otherwise, Zen3D might beat it in games or provide performance close to it without consuming too much power. Plus, DDR5 is expensive and too slow at the moment to make much of a difference compared to DDR4.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

It's not impressive when you consider that 12900K uses up more than 200W to score those wins. If you have a specific use case where you are desperate to gain speed at any cost, 12900K might make sense. Otherwise, Zen3D might beat it in games or provide performance close to it without consuming too much power. Plus, DDR5 is expensive and too slow at the moment to make much of a difference compared to DDR4.

Thanks guys for all the replies, its a lot of great info!! So what is Zen3D, Is that the V-Cache Ryzen CPU that we are supposed to get info on on the 4th or is it something else?

My main use case mostly consists of video/Audio encoding and compression/uncompression and some gaming on Xbox game pass ,Steam , and Epic ect...

Well also day to day stuff like surfing the web with multiple open tabs usually more then 20-ish. If we are to get new Ryzen CPU's for current am4 socket, wonder if we will get motherboard refreshes as well with new features?

At that point it makes me think maybe new platform altogether would be more beneficial?? At what point does DDR5 overtake and truly outperform high end high speed DDR4?

 

[Markfw]

Thanks guys for all the replies, its a lot of great info!! So what is Zen3D, Is that the V-Cache Ryzen CPU that we are supposed to get info on on the 4th or is it something else?

My main use case mostly consists of video/Audio encoding and compression/uncompression and some gaming on Xbox game pass ,Steam , and Epic ect...

Well also day to day stuff like surfing the web with multiple open tabs usually more then 20-ish. If we are to get new Ryzen CPU's for current am4 socket, wonder if we will get motherboard refreshes as well with new features?

At that point it makes me think maybe new platform altogether would be more beneficial?? At what point does DDR5 overtake and truly outperform high end high speed DDR4?

Everybody here expects SOME kind of news on the 4th, watch the threads here for that.

For your use case, I think the 5950x would be best. Or the v-cache CPUs if they come out soon.

And lastly, DDR5's day has not come yet. It does beat DDR4 today on ADL, and at a GREAT cost. But in a year that will all change. The replacement for the AM4 platform most likely will have DDR5, again, watch the threads here.

 

[igor_kavinski]

So what is Zen3D, Is that the V-Cache Ryzen CPU that we are supposed to get info on on the 4th or is it something else?
At what point does DDR5 overtake and truly outperform high end high speed DDR4?

Yes, Zen 3D is the one with V-cache.

DDR5-8000+ is expected to leave DDR4 behind in the dust...

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Ok guys I will hold off for now or until AMD spills the beans on the 4th.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Hey guys, so I am really on the fence here about buying a 12900k. I am currently running a AMD 3950x on x570 Aurous Master Motherboard and need to know if there is any word as to if there will be one more CPU release for this Am4 socket or not?

Do you really need the upgrade? Like you are annoyed with it's performance or if you are a gamer you need it to be higher fps?

Because unless you can sell your current platform for high enough price to end up getting the new one for say $200 extra, it makes no sense.

Since you are asking the question, I assume you don't. I'd be hesistant to upgrade from the original Ryzen.

That's why when it comes to socket upgrades, unless you can upgrade to a CPU 4-5 years down the road, it doesn't matter. And by then you might be wondering on getting a new motherboard for the new features. Or you do something purposely getting a low end Celeron or Athlon and a year or two getting the higher end Ryzen 5 or Core i5.

 

[Markfw]

Do you really need the upgrade? Like you are annoyed with it's performance or if you are a gamer you need it to be higher fps?

Because unless you can sell your current platform for high enough price to end up getting the new one for say $200 extra, it makes no sense.

Since you are asking the question, I assume you don't. I'd be hesistant to upgrade from the original Ryzen.

That's why when it comes to socket upgrades, unless you can upgrade to a CPU 4-5 years down the road, it doesn't matter. And by then you might be wondering on getting a new motherboard for the new features. Or you do something purposely getting a low end Celeron or Athlon and a year or two getting the higher end Ryzen 5 or Core i5.

Right now the 3950x is going for $650 or more on ebay. The 5950x is only $730, and was $690 last week.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Do you really need the upgrade? Like you are annoyed with it's performance or if you are a gamer you need it to be higher fps?

Because unless you can sell your current platform for high enough price to end up getting the new one for say $200 extra, it makes no sense.

Since you are asking the question, I assume you don't. I'd be hesistant to upgrade from the original Ryzen.

That's why when it comes to socket upgrades, unless you can upgrade to a CPU 4-5 years down the road, it doesn't matter. And by then you might be wondering on getting a new motherboard for the new features. Or you do something purposely getting a low end Celeron or Athlon and a year or two getting the higher end Ryzen 5 or Core i5.

No I am not annoyed by its performance at all. I have just had the 3950x for a while now like since launch day and it feels like its about time for an upgrade thats all. I just figured since there is a new platform with next gen memory and 5th gen features and such, I was just thinking about getting the parts for the intel build. I try to stay up to date with my parts the best I can when I can afford it. But like others have expressed to me about waiting to see what AMD has to offer, I will do just that. if I dont like what I hear then I will go intel otherwise it will be a nice new shiny what ever AMD releases.

 

[Hulk]

It's not impressive when you consider that 12900K uses up more than 200W to score those wins. If you have a specific use case where you are desperate to gain speed at any cost, 12900K might make sense. Otherwise, Zen3D might beat it in games or provide performance close to it without consuming too much power. Plus, DDR5 is expensive and too slow at the moment to make much of a difference compared to DDR4.

I bet even if you held the 12900K back to 150W it would still put a hurtin' on the 3950X. It would only lose about 10% performance and it's way further ahead than that.

And as we know 12900K doesn't use anywhere near 200W when gaming. I've read it's more like 100W, unless you push clocks to the stratosphere for that last 2% performance.

Let's be honest here guys the 12900K or even the 12700K are more performant than the 3950X in most usage scenarios and even on lower cost DDR4 boards/memory as in my sig.

The Zen 3 core was a big jump from Zen 2.

 

[Markfw]

I bet even if you held the 12900K back to 150W it would still put a hurtin' on the 3950X. It would only lose about 10% performance and it's way further ahead than that.

And as we know 12900K doesn't use anywhere near 200W when gaming. I've read it's more like 100W, unless you push clocks to the stratosphere for that last 2% performance.

Let's be honest here guys the 12900K or even the 12700K are more performant than the 3950X in most usage scenarios and even on lower cost DDR4 boards/memory as in my sig.

The Zen 3 core was a big jump from Zen 2.

I think you are confirming what I said... The 5950x is a lot faster than what he has, and only in a few cases (for his use cases) will the ADL be better. The 5950x would be a decent upgrade, but the upcoming v-cache version of the same will be even more impressive.

 

[IntelUser2000]

No I am not annoyed by its performance at all. I have just had the 3950x for a while now like since launch day and it feels like its about time for an upgrade thats all.

Yes you have the upgrade itch. Sell it and get Alderlake, and when Zen 4 comes out sell it and get that.

If I was worried about socket upgradability I'd wait until AM5, because their side is much more guaranteed on supporting multiple future generations. With Intel I'd barely trust them supporting it for one more year, meaning maybe Raptorlake will work with Alderlake.

The massive improvements you see with chips like Alderlake is going to continue with both Intel and AMD. You'll probably get the upgrade itch every generation. I typically ignore it by getting what I see as an "inflection point", like Core 2, Sandy Bridge, etc.

Nowdays since I don't game anymore and focused on things like GPU repair I'm interested in low power, tiny form factor upgradeable setups like mITX. Gracemont with M.2 SSD and WiFi in an mITX motherboard would be real nice. An extra x1 PCIe slot for repair work would be gravy!

 

[DrMrLordX]

With Intel I'd barely trust them supporting it for one more year, meaning maybe Raptorlake will work with Alderlake.

If Raptorlake doesn't work on Z690, there will be feathers a flyin. It's a safe bet that it will work.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

I wouldn't be overclocking at all just stock settings for me. It would be nice if intel was a little more forth coming when it comes to socket compatibility when it comes to future upgrade paths..
Edit:
Well looks like I will be buying a intel system after all. AMD's keynote was just lunacy in my eyes. Any chance there is a all P-core cpu with out the E-cores? This will give me a chance to hop on the DDR5 train anyways or I can even use left over DDR4..

 

[VirtualLarry]

Any chance there is a all P-core cpu with out the E-cores? This will give me a chance to hop on the DDR5 train anyways or I can even use left over DDR4..

12400(F) == 6P, 0E / 12100(F) == 4P, 0E.

I've just purchased recently a 12100F CPU, and that $139 Gigabyte B660 mobo (currently cheapest on market, next cheapest is $170-180), has 2.5gbe, no bios flashback though. Going to likely pair it up with an RX 6600 or RX 6600 XT, I have been stockpiling those recently, for a relatively cheap power-house 1080P high / 1440 med/low gaming PC.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Well looks like I will be buying a intel system after all. AMD's keynote was just lunacy in my eyes.

 

[igor_kavinski]

ProArt B660-CREATOR D4｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global



Be still, my beating heart! I'm having a hard time NOT thinking about pulling the trigger on this baby

 

[Aikouka]

I thought I'd add that if you're looking for DDR5, consider checking your local Best Buy. I was in the store over the past few days, and they had three Dominator Platinum kits and one Vengeance kit. Unfortunately, based upon checking the Best Buy website, there's no real way to know if your store has it since the website lists the Dominator Platinum kit as being "online only", so there's no indicator that my store has them in stock.

ProArt B660-CREATOR D4｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

View attachment 55826

Be still, my beating heart! I'm having a hard time NOT thinking about pulling the trigger on this baby

I use their Workstation board with my Ryzen-based server. I wouldn't mind one of those if I could also switch to using QuickSync instead of NVENC with Plex. The biggest thing is that I'm currently using four cards, and I'd need support for three if I were to remove the 1050 Ti. (Alder Lake boards seem to be removing a lot of PCI-E slots in favor of more M.2 slots.) I'm technically only using two cards that need data: RAID card and a 10Gbps SFP card. My third card is just a SAS Expander that uses the slot for power, which is why I like that the ASUS board has open-ended PCI-Express slots.

 

[KentState]

I thought I'd add that if you're looking for DDR5, consider checking your local Best Buy. I was in the store over the past few days, and they had three Dominator Platinum kits and one Vengeance kit. Unfortunately, based upon checking the Best Buy website, there's no real way to know if your store has it since the website lists the Dominator Platinum kit as being "online only", so there's no indicator that my store has them in stock.

If you are close to Microcenter, they appear to be getting kits in all the time now. Everyday when I dream of blowing money on a build, I check what's available and both stores near me have a good variety.