Albuquerque to check immigration status of criminals

[Throckmorton]

OK Stat Man, let's see 'em. Do you have any actual stats to back up these ridiculous "guarantees"?

A very similar law has been in place in Prince William County, VA, since 2007. Perhaps you could start there and list all of the chases, officer deaths, or elephant stampedes that have occurred as a result of the law -- or the percentage increases since that time.

Good luck Stat Man.

EDIT: It's always fun to see folks resort to "it's just common sense man!" when they realize that they really have nothing to leverage in a debate... lawl!

Of course I don't have stats, because the law just passed. What I'm trying to convey to you is that when you create a risk out of nowhere, that is going to have effects when that risk is applied to every traffic stop. Let's say you take a die and replace the 6 side with a picture of an illegal immigrant killing a cop. If you roll the dice 1000 times, it's almost a statistical certainty that you'll get that picture.

You have to be stupid to think that if you literally give every illegal immigrant pulled over a choice between killing the cop, running, or getting deported that a certain % of them won't choose not to get deported. Is that really what you're arguing? This is a huge additional risk to traffic police who pull over illegals, plain and simple.


Prince William, like Albuquerque, checks immigration status of people who have been arrested, not at the traffic stop. Don't you think there's a reason for that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/10/AR2007071002093.html


Never thought I'd see the day right wingers would argue that illegal immigrants aren't dangerous.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Of course I don't have stats, because the law just passed. What I'm trying to convey to you is that when you create a risk out of nowhere, that is going to have effects when that risk is applied to every traffic stop. Let's say you take a die and replace the 6 side with a picture of an illegal immigrant killing a cop. If you roll the dice 1000 times, it's almost a statistical certainty that you'll get that picture.

You have to be stupid to think that if you literally give every illegal immigrant pulled over a choice between killing the cop, running, or getting deported that a certain % of them won't choose not to get deported. Is that really what you're arguing? This is a huge additional risk to traffic police who pull over illegals, plain and simple.


Prince William, like Albuquerque, checks immigration status of people who have been arrested, not at the traffic stop. Don't you think there's a reason for that?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/10/AR2007071002093.html


Never thought I'd see the day right wingers would argue that illegal immigrants aren't dangerous.

So basically you are arguing that because there might be a chance that some illegal may not want to be deported and may act violently we shouldn't enforce the law.

Yeah you know that is some nice illogical rational you are spouting off. Especially considering all the situations in which law enforcement have dealt with violent illegal felons, etc.. in relation to other laws they have violated and have been stopped, arrested and end up eventually deported. Keep on grasping for those straws and maybe one of them might work.

Edit: Not to mention absurdity that you are insinuating that we should somehow allow people who are potentially violent and murderous in this country out of fear of what they may do if stopped by a police officer. Hello ! Those are the prime group of people that should be targeted immediately and removed from our streets and nation.

 

[Throckmorton]

So basically you are arguing that because there might be a chance that some illegal may not want to be deported and may act violently we shouldn't enforce the law.

Yeah you know that is some nice illogical rational you are spouting off. Especially considering all the situations in which law enforcement have dealt with violent illegal felons, etc.. in relation to other laws they have violated and have been stopped, arrested and end up eventually deported. Keep on grasping for those straws and maybe one of them might work.

Edit: Not to mention absurdity that you are insinuating that we should somehow allow people who are potentially violent and murderous in this country out of fear of what they may do if stopped by a police officer. Hello ! Those are the prime group of people that should be targeted immediately and removed from our streets and nation.

I don't get what you mean by "keep on grasping at straws". I agree with the Arizona law except for this one thing. Albuquerque agrees with me or they'd include immigration checks at every traffic stop too. Or do you think they just don't want to be too hard on illegal immigrants? No,

I'll be the first to post here when an illegal runs over a cop and ask "Would he have done this if the only thing he had to worry about was a fine for speeding?"

I'm not sure why you guys are so extreme on this subject that you're willing to drastically change the nature of traffic stops. Why the utter unwillingness to acknowledge the effect on police?

 

[bob4432]

I didn't say not to deport them. I'm saying not to do the immigration status check during traffic stops. Do it when someone is arrested, but not at the point at which a cop is at highest risk and which happens every time you stop one of them. It's dangerous and irresponsible to create a point in time at which an illegal has a binary choice between killing the cop or fleeing, and being deported.

Whereas if you do the immigration checks on arrest, the illegal immigrant will have every reason to continue with an uneventful traffic stop vs getting arrested and with 100% certainty being deported.

a lot of this stuff, like i said has been already happening for year w/ sheriff arpaio, this is nothing new here in AZ, it just so happens that the media coverage is insane because the left wants to paint a race issue and there is an election, to us here in the phx, az vicinity, it is biz as usual, the rest of the country is making the big deal out of it. look at the history on a local news site like azfamily.com and read about issues that you all think are new. it is quite sad to see how ignorant so many people are to the reality of the border/illegal situation.

you can continue to beat your point into the ground and be wrong looking through your ethnocentric lenses, or listen to somebody who has lived here is whole life and has known or knows legal, illegal, city leo, county leo and fed leo, you decide.

the sheriff that was just shot in the desert about 50MI south of phx a couple weeks ago - stumbled on drug smugglers in the desert - not a traffic stop and this would have happend regardless of the law, which isn't even in effect yet.

 

[bob4432]

I don't get what you mean by "keep on grasping at straws". I agree with the Arizona law except for this one thing. Albuquerque agrees with me or they'd include immigration checks at every traffic stop too. Or do you think they just don't want to be too hard on illegal immigrants? No,

I'll be the first to post here when an illegal runs over a cop and ask "Would he have done this if the only thing he had to worry about was a fine for speeding?"

I'm not sure why you guys are so extreme on this subject that you're willing to drastically change the nature of traffic stops. Why the utter unwillingness to acknowledge the effect on police?

illegal = not legal what do you not get?

 

[Throckmorton]

illegal = not legal what do you not get?

What I don't get is why you think a traffic stop is the right time to deport an illegal immigrant

 

[nick1985]

What I don't get is why you think a traffic stop is the right time to deport an illegal immigrant

Just a good of a time as any

 

[Adrenaline]

What I don't get is why you think a traffic stop is the right time to deport an illegal immigrant

Because they aren't here legally?

 

[bob4432]

What I don't get is why you think a traffic stop is the right time to deport an illegal immigrant

so if a person was wanted for kidnapping and the officer happend to stop them for a legal stop, you would just let them go? you make no sense.

 

[Throckmorton]

so if a person was wanted for kidnapping and the officer happend to stop them for a legal stop, you would just let them go? you make no sense.

You don't think it makes a difference that there are millions of illegal immigrants driving around getting pulled over, vs the odd kidnapper or murderer?

If it makes so much sense for every traffic stop to include an immigration check, why is Arizona the only state doing it? Are the other local governments passing anti-sanctuary laws without the traffic stop deportations just stupid like me?

 

[Adrenaline]

Illegal is illegal, regardless of how anyone wants to portray it.

 

[bob4432]

You don't think it makes a difference that there are millions of illegal immigrants driving around getting pulled over, vs the odd kidnapper or murderer?

If it makes so much sense for every traffic stop to include an immigration check, why is Arizona the only state doing it? Are the other local governments passing anti-sanctuary laws without the traffic stop deportations just stupid like me?

well they ask for your license when you get pulled over correct? in AZ you have to show certain docs if you are a legal immigrant to get a license and if the don't have a license, then they shouldn't be driving around w/out a license, so there is another violation, then since no license, vehicle is probably not in their name and last, more than likely no insurance. see how it kind of works w/out the officer asking about immigration status but still getting the answers he needs?

look at what other states are doing, it is not my fault they are slow to see the light.

 

[blackangst1]

You don't think it makes a difference that there are millions of illegal immigrants driving around getting pulled over, vs the odd kidnapper or murderer?

If it makes so much sense for every traffic stop to include an immigration check, why is Arizona the only state doing it? Are the other local governments passing anti-sanctuary laws without the traffic stop deportations just stupid like me?

And on the other side of the coin, does it make sense, other than if you think our immigration laws are bullshit, and believe we should have an open border, why an officer would NOT turn over someone driving illegally and in this country illegally to ICE? Because I honestly dont know how someone could both support our current immigration laws AND give a pass to those here illegally.