Al Qaeda will NOT be happy about this

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Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Homosexuality is rife in Pakistan

Gay Pakistan: Where sex is available and relationships are difficult

By Mobeen Azhar

BBC World Service, Karachi

Pakistan is not the kind of place that most people would associate with gay

liberation. But some say the country is a great place to be gay - even

describing the port city of Karachi as "a gay man's paradise".

Underground parties, group sex at shrines and "marriages of convenience" to

members of the opposite sex are just some of the surprises that gay Pakistan

has to offer. Under its veneer of strict social conformity, the country is

bustling with same-sex activity.

Danyaal, as he's asked to be known, is a 50-something businessman who

lives in an affluent part of Karachi, and uses his smartphone to organise

Karachi's gay party scene.

"One of the first things I did online, maybe 12 years ago, was type in G - A -

Y and hit search. Back then I found a group and made contact with 12 people

in this city," he says.

"These days there are smartphone apps that use GPS to tell you how close

you are to another gay person with an online profile. There are thousands of

gay men online in Pakistan at any one time."

The party scene is big - so big, he jokes, that he rarely gets time to himself.

"If you want sex too, it's a gay man's paradise. If you want a relationship,

that may be more difficult."

These invitation-only parties are a rare opportunity for gay men to be open

about their sexuality.

Pakistani is fiercely patriarchal. Pakistanis are expected to marry a member

of the opposite sex, and the vast majority do.

The result is a culture of dishonesty and double lives, says researcher Qasim

Iqbal.

"Gay men will make every effort to stop any investment in a same-sex

relationship because they know that one day they will have to get married to

a woman," he says.

"After getting married they will treat their wives well but they will continue to

have sex with other men."

Sex between men occurs in some very public places - including, surprisingly,

Karachi's busiest shrine.

Families go to the Abdullah Shah-Ghazi shrine to honour the holy man buried

there and to ask for God's blessings, but it is also Karachi's biggest cruising

ground.

Every Thursday evening, as the sun sets, men from across the city gather

there. A tightly packed circle is formed and those in the centre of the circle

are groped by those on the periphery.

To outsiders it looks like a writhing mass of men huddling around one

another. Some even describe it as a "mysterious religious ceremony". For

participants, it's anonymous group sex.

This kind of behaviour is, of course, not condoned by Pakistan's religious

authorities.

Most Pakistanis view homosexuality as sinful. The vast majority of clerics

interpret the Qoranic story of Lot as a clear indication that God condemns

homosexual men. some scholars going even further and recommending

sharia-based punishment for "men who have sex with men".

The shrine is far from the only place in Karachi where gay sex is freely

available.

It is, for example, easy to buy from a malchi walah - a masseur who offers

massage and "extras" for the equivalent of £5, or $7.80.

"We get important people - police, army officers and ministers too," says one

masseur, Ahmed.

He claims to have slept with more than 3,000 men during his working life -

despite having two wives and eight children.


One of his wives, Sumera, wears a burka and the niqab, but she has no

objection to her husband's chosen profession and wishes more people would

keep an open mind.

"I know he has sex. No problem. If he doesn't work how will the kids eat? I

get angry when people call them names. People are stuck in their ways."

Sumera's position may appear surprising, but in fact it's not hard to

understand, says Qasim Iqbal.

"In Pakistan men are discouraged from having girlfriends and so often, their

first sexual experiences will be with male friends or cousins. This is often

seen as a part of growing up and it can be overlooked by families - it's the

idea that 'boys will be boys'," he says.

"Sex between men will be overlooked as long as no-one feels that tradition

or religion are being challenged. At the end of it all, everyone gets married

to a member of the opposite sex and nothing is spoken about."

Technically, homosexual acts are illegal in Pakistan. The British introduced

laws criminalising what is described as sex "against the order of nature" in

the colonial era. Sharia-based laws dating from the 1980s also lay down

punishments for same-sex sexual activity.

In practice, though, these laws are rarely enforced, and the issue tends to be

dealt with inside the family.

"There was an instance where two boys were caught having sex in a field,"

says Iqbal.

"The family tried to bribe the police with money because they didn't want the

story going public. When the police wouldn't back down the family asked for

one detail to be changed - they wanted their son to be presented as the

active sexual partner. For them, their son being passive would be even more

shameful."

In almost all cases charges will be dropped, Iqbal says, but the boys will be

forced to get married by their families.

Just occasionally, though, Pakistani parents do reconcile themselves to

children entering a long-term gay relationship.

Akbar and Ali are one such couple who have made things work, against the

odds.

"Ali's family was run by a matriarch," recalls Akbar.

"His grandmother was the head of the house so I knew that winning her over

would mean everything else would fall into place. I took the time to talk to

her and convince her that I was a good person. That was first and foremost.

It wasn't about 'coming out' in a formal sense. It's more important to

convince Ali's family that I'm a good human being.

"She once gave me a hand-embroidered decorative cloth that she had made

as a teenager. She said she was giving it to me because she knew I 'take

care of things'. It was a kind gesture and a very personal kind of

acceptance."

Akbar and Ali have now set up home together with the support of their

families. Akbar has a good relationship with Ali's mother.

"She comes to stay with us and I love watching soaps with her. At the end of

the night she goes to her room and Ali and I will retire to our room. Two men

sleeping in the same bed? Sure she knows what is going on. We don't have to

have a big discussion about it."

Stories like this are, however, exceptionally rare. For many gay men in

Pakistan, a heterosexual marriage and a life of anonymous groping is the

long-term reality.

But life can be even more difficult for gay women. Expressions of female

sexuality are shunned in the public sphere, even among heterosexuals. So

how do gay women make their lives work?

In Lahore, twenty-something lesbian couple Beena and Fatima have come up

with an inventive way to stay together.

Beena, although not publicly "out", says she is optimistic about the future. "I

think we'll have a marriage of convenience. I know some gay guys and

maybe we'll do a deal so we put in money together and they have one

portion of the house and we'll have another portion. We may as well do that."

Fatima, who contributes to an invitation-only online gay support group,

believes it's only "a matter of time" before Pakistan begins to debate gay

rights openly, and people declare their homosexuality with pride.

"You can't stay in the closet forever. You have to come out. It's inevitable,"

she says.

Beena is less hopeful.

"Gay rights in America came after women had basic rights. You don't see that

in Pakistan. You are not allowed a difference of opinion here. My father is a

gentleman but I wouldn't put it past him to put a bullet through my head. I'm

all for being 'true to myself' but I don't want to die young," she says.

"I think it's selfish for me to come out and campaign for gay rights now. It's

selfish to the women in my family who are fighting for education and the

right to marry the man of their dreams, or not to marry at all."

It may take a generation for any real change to occur - even liberal

Pakistanis tend to regard sectarian violence and economic instability as more

pressing issues. But there will still be private spaces where gay Pakistanis

can express their sexuality openly.

I'm sure when the Arabs when to Pakistan to fight the Soviets...then Americans, they weren't expecting all this sinning. There out to be a law. 3K is ridiculous.
 
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bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
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... most of the taliban diddle little boys. Pretty sure they only care if the homosexual relationship is between two consenting adults. If it's forced love between a man and a boy it's A-OK.

Then once the boy is of age he marries him off to his daughter. That must make for some awkward dinner conversation.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
22,072
886
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I am wondering why the OP would even search this then broadcast.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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Good. This teaches those morons a lesson. This is what happens with sharia law and when they outlaw homosexuality.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
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I would tend to think that when an Islamic society does everything it can to keep men and women separate and thus repress normal sexuality, that sexuality will do everything it can to find a way to express itself.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
126
I would tend to think that when an Islamic society does everything it can to keep men and women separate and thus repress normal sexuality, that sexuality will do everything it can to find a way to express itself.

Honestly it happens in any Abrahamic religion when it has too much control over the state, they try to repress sexuality and free thought. It's the same reason we have to be steadfast in the US and keep Christianity from getting control over the state. Luckily it seems very unlikely that Christianity could ever have the control over the US that Islam has over countries like Pakistan.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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Honestly it happens in any Abrahamic religion when it has too much control over the state, they try to repress sexuality and free thought. It's the same reason we have to be steadfast in the US and keep Christianity from getting control over the state. Luckily it seems very unlikely that Christianity could ever have the control over the US that Islam has over countries like Pakistan.

So you want Christianity out of the government but what about the other religions? All religions should be kicked out of the government instead of this selective outrage only targeting Christianity.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
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So you want Christianity out of the government but what about the other religions? All religions should be kicked out of the government instead of this selective outrage only targeting Christianity.

Go look up the population of the country that is Christian. Then go look up the population of the country that is Muslim. Compare. Then do the same for the religions of state and national representatives in government. Then search for every instance where a lawmaker in the US used their personal Christian belief for their reasoning for attempting a law, then do the same for those who used their Muslim beliefs. You will then see the numerical vast disparity of Christianity trying to take control over our government and not Islam. If Muslims ever get any political power in this country and try to force the government to be Islamic, I'll bitch about that too.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
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So you want Christianity out of the government but what about the other religions? All religions should be kicked out of the government instead of this selective outrage only targeting Christianity.

Every day you find a new way to exceed the level of stupidity that you set the previous day... and today is no exception. :rolleyes:

Which religion is the major one in the US and, accordingly, the US government? Here's a hint... it's not Islam.

Which religion is the major one in Pakistan and, accordingly, the Pakistan government? Here's a hint... it's not Christianity.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
Every day you find a new way to exceed the level of stupidity that you set the previous day... and today is no exception. :rolleyes:

Which religion is the major one in the US and, accordingly, the US government? Here's a hint... it's not Islam.

Which religion is the major one in Pakistan and, accordingly, the Pakistan government? Here's a hint... it's not Christianity.

There is Christianity in the government and it should be removed
but my point is that Islam is in the government as well and it poses a much bigger threat than Christianity. Supporters of the MB work within the obama administration. We keep seeing people calling for no Christianity in the government but seem to fall silent on other religions.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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There is Christianity in the government and it should be removed
but my point is that Islam is in the government as well and it poses a much bigger threat than Christianity. Supporters of the MB work within the obama administration. We keep seeing people calling for no Christianity in the government but seem to fall silent on other religions.

Please explain why one religion is a bigger threat than any other to our government?

I am not stating that religion in government is good/bad; it is built into the system from the beginning.

I want to know what makes one faith/practice more dangerous than another:\
 
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