al-Qaeda 18,000 strong?

[wkabel23]

LONDON, England (AP) -- Despite losses around the world, al Qaeda has more than 18,000 potential terrorists, and its ranks are growing because of the conflict in Iraq, a leading think tank warned Tuesday.

Al Qaeda still has a functioning leadership despite the death or capture of key figures, and estimates suggest al Qaeda operates in more than 60 nations around the world, the International Institute of Strategic Studies said in its Strategic Survey 2003-4.

The terrorist group poses a growing threat to Western interests and attacks are likely to increase, the institute said.

"Al Qaeda must be expected to keep trying to develop more promising plans for terrorist operations in North America and Europe, potentially involving weapons of mass destruction," institute director John Chipman told a news conference to launch the annual survey.

At the same time, it will continue carrying out attacks on "soft targets encompassing Americans, Europeans and Israelis and aiding the insurgency in Iraq," he added.

The estimate of 18,000 fighters was based on intelligence estimates that al Qaeda trained at least 20,000 fighters in its training camps in Afghanistan before the United States and its allies ousted the Taliban regime. In the ensuing war on terror, some 2,000 al Qaeda fighters have been killed or captured, the survey said.

The United States remains al Qaeda's prime target, the report said. An al Qaeda leader has said 4 million Americans will have to be killed "as a prerequisite to any Islamic victory," the survey said.

Iraq has become the new magnet of al Qaeda's war against the United States and up to 1,000 foreign Islamic fighters have infiltrated Iraqi territory, where they are cooperating with Iraqi forces, the survey said.

Al Qaeda appears to have successfully reconstituted its operations in dispersed groups and through local allies since being driven out of Afghanistan, the survey said.

"The Madrid bombings in March 2004 suggested that al Qaeda had fully reconstituted, set its sights firmly on the U.S. and its closest Western allies in Europe, and established a new and effective modus operandi," the survey said.

The U.S.-led war in Iraq has increased the risk to Western interests in Arab countries, the survey said.

The West and its allies must continue to mount a major offensive against al Qaeda and progress will be incremental, the report said. Any security offensive against al Qaeda must be accompanied with political developments, such as the democratization of Iraq and the resolution of conflict in Israel, it said.

Progress against al Qaeda "is likely to accelerate only with currently elusive political developments that would broadly depress recruitment and motivation," the report said.

But I thought we had crushed al-Qaeda? Not sure about the accuracy of these reports, but if they are even remotely accurate, this is bad news

Text
Another
BBC

 

Iraq has become the new magnet of al Qaeda's war against the United States and up to 1,000 foreign Islamic fighters have infiltrated Iraqi territory, where they are cooperating with Iraqi forces, the survey said.

They weren't in Iraq before the war, but they're sure as hell going to congregate there now. Will Iraq just become another Taliban-like state after the Coalition hands over sovereignty?

 

[piasabird]

The purpose of al-Qaeda seems to be for Muslims to take over the world and kill all non-muslim people. They are active in many different countries. They are an organization rivaling the the Soviet Union in their war of hatred and murder.

 

[conjur]

If Bush hadn't delayed sending US troops to Afghanistan in force, we probably would have corraled a helluva lot more than 2,000!

 

[Crimson]

Here we go again.. We are the cause of terrorists.. Its because we FIGHT them that they grow in numbers, not because they are bad people. We just bring out the bad in them.. :roll:

That argument is like saying we shouldn't persue serial killers because we might upset them and make them kill more, or create copycat killers... By trying to find the murderer we are making him upset.

If Al-Qaeda is growing in size its because they were always there, and they are just becoming more brazen in their actions. I for one would rather risk more terrorists and more attacks by FIGHTING them, than by cowering in the corner and waiting for them to act.

 

[Zephyr106]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Here we go again.. We are the cause of terrorists.. Its because we FIGHT them that they grow in numbers, not because they are bad people. We just bring out the bad in them.. :roll:

That argument is like saying we shouldn't persue serial killers because we might upset them and make them kill more, or create copycat killers... By trying to find the murderer we are making him upset.

If Al-Qaeda is growing in size its because they were always there, and they are just becoming more brazen in their actions. I for one would rather risk more terrorists and more attacks by FIGHTING them, than by cowering in the corner and waiting for them to act.

Hahahahahahaha pathetic analogy with the serial killer bit. Unless there is a nationwide network of serial killer sympathizers that aren't inflamed to the point to fight police? Your lack of understanding is phenomenal.

Zephyr

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Here we go again.. We are the cause of terrorists.. Its because we FIGHT them that they grow in numbers, not because they are bad people. We just bring out the bad in them.. :roll:

The problem isn't that we fight them. The problem is that we didn't fight them and instead went on an untimely crusade to find WMDs, no wait, to liberate the people, no wait, to capture sadaam, no wait, to create a democracy, no wait......

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Here we go again.. We are the cause of terrorists.. Its because we FIGHT them that they grow in numbers, not because they are bad people. We just bring out the bad in them.. :roll:

That argument is like saying we shouldn't persue serial killers because we might upset them and make them kill more, or create copycat killers... By trying to find the murderer we are making him upset.

If Al-Qaeda is growing in size its because they were always there, and they are just becoming more brazen in their actions. I for one would rather risk more terrorists and more attacks by FIGHTING them, than by cowering in the corner and waiting for them to act.

That is a horrible analogy. No comment is even needed to realize why that makes no sense.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Here we go again.. We are the cause of terrorists.. Its because we FIGHT them that they grow in numbers, not because they are bad people. We just bring out the bad in them.. :roll:

That argument is like saying we shouldn't persue serial killers because we might upset them and make them kill more, or create copycat killers... By trying to find the murderer we are making him upset.

If Al-Qaeda is growing in size its because they were always there, and they are just becoming more brazen in their actions. I for one would rather risk more terrorists and more attacks by FIGHTING them, than by cowering in the corner and waiting for them to act.

Crimson, I urge you, the president, and other conservatives to move beyond your infantile views of causation. Causation is not black and white. Causation is complex. There can be more than one cause for something. Most people who say US foreign policy is the cause of terrorism also think there are other causes.

US foreign policy is a significant factor for terrorism. Ignorance, poverty, and human nature are other causes.

Also you are also constructing a nice strawman argument. Few people if anyone are arguing we should cower in the corner and wait for terrorists to attack.

Al-quada is still strong. As many predicted, the war on Iraq has had nothing to do with terrorism except for making the numbers of terrorists grow.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: Crimson
Here we go again.. We are the cause of terrorists.. Its because we FIGHT them that they grow in numbers, not because they are bad people. We just bring out the bad in them.. :roll:

That argument is like saying we shouldn't persue serial killers because we might upset them and make them kill more, or create copycat killers... By trying to find the murderer we are making him upset.

If Al-Qaeda is growing in size its because they were always there, and they are just becoming more brazen in their actions. I for one would rather risk more terrorists and more attacks by FIGHTING them, than by cowering in the corner and waiting for them to act.

Hahahahahahaha pathetic analogy with the serial killer bit. Unless there is a nationwide network of serial killer sympathizers that aren't inflamed to the point to fight police? Your lack of understanding is phenomenal.

Zephyr

A better analogy would be a bee hive.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually they have millions of potential Terrorists. Every relative of an innocent victim of Collateral Damage in Iraq probably hates America at this moment.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Actually they have millions of potential Terrorists.

And with the U.S. proving bin Laden's "prophecy", it only swells the recruiting classes.

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Actually they have millions of potential Terrorists.

And with the U.S. proving bin Laden's "prophecy", it only swells the recruiting classes.

Ditto,

I agree with most actions US has taken, but in Iraq US has really gone out of their way to prove bin Laden right...

bin Laden:
"Americans are evil and they hate muslims..."

US response:
-Attack Iraq
-Abuse, humiliate and kill prisoners
-Bomb wedding parties
-...

 

[DealMonkey]

SITE released a report today (or recently) that indicates:

Iraq has become the new magnet of Al Qaeda's war against the United States and up to 1,000 foreign Islamic fighters have infiltrated Iraqi territory, where they are cooperating with Iraqi forces, the survey said.

Al Qaeda appears to have successfully reconstituted its operations in dispersed groups and through local allies since being driven out of Afghanistan, the survey said.

"The Madrid bombings in March 2004 suggested that Al Qaeda had fully reconstituted, set its sights firmly on the U.S. and its closest Western allies in Europe, and established a new and effective modus operandi," the survey said.

The U.S.-led war in Iraq has increased the risk to Western interests in Arab countries, the survey said.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: DaFinn

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Actually they have millions of potential Terrorists.

And with the U.S. proving bin Laden's "prophecy", it only swells the recruiting classes.

Ditto,

I agree with most actions US has taken, but in Iraq US has really gone out of their way to prove bin Laden right...

bin Laden:
"Americans are evil and they hate muslims..."

US response:
-Attack Iraq
-Abuse, humiliate and kill prisoners
-Bomb wedding parties
-...

Exactly. The Bushies refuse to accept reality. Yes, it's true the fires of terrorism were already burning. Unfortunately, King George chose to fight those fires by pouring gasoline on them.

Most of Bush's opponents, i.e., the world, me, etc., supported going after the Taliban in Afghanistan. That's because we were truly fighting terrorism. Most did not support invading Iraq. That's because we were no longer fighting terrorism; we were killing innocent Muslims based on lies.

 

[syzygy]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Actually they have millions of potential Terrorists. Every relative of an innocent victim of Collateral Damage in Iraq probably hates America at this moment

And with the U.S. proving bin Laden's "prophecy", it only swells the recruiting classes.

very true. which would mean that the 18,000 figure is a laughable underestimate. if we accept
bin laden's word about the typical muslim beleiver as he/she fits into his prophetic visions, then
there are 10,000,000 + sympathisers. this, ofcourse, is a conservative estimate; and, ofcourse,
lets not forget about the slippery slope between sympathisers and actual shock troops, esp. per
bin laden's prophetic powers.

 

[Crimson]

And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Crimson
And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

Except, of course, Clinton did far, far more about terrorism than Bush before 9/11. But hey, bleat on. It's one of those Bush fan-boy lies you guys use to stroke each other into a spittle-soaked frenzy of denial.

 

[tallest1]

Originally posted by: Crimson
And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

Whats this? Are you admiting that focusing on Iraq is counterproductive? Please elaborate!

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Crimson
And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

Except, of course, Clinton did far, far more about terrorism than Bush before 9/11. But hey, bleat on. It's one of those Bush fan-boy lies you guys use to stroke each other into a spittle-soaked frenzy of denial.

What exactly did he accomplish?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Crimson
And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

Except, of course, Clinton did far, far more about terrorism than Bush before 9/11. But hey, bleat on. It's one of those Bush fan-boy lies you guys use to stroke each other into a spittle-soaked frenzy of denial.

What exactly did he accomplish?

I heard he blew up a tent once.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Crimson
And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

Except, of course, Clinton did far, far more about terrorism than Bush before 9/11. But hey, bleat on. It's one of those Bush fan-boy lies you guys use to stroke each other into a spittle-soaked frenzy of denial.

What exactly did he accomplish?

Pssttt - it's not the results that matter - it's the thought

Oh and Clinton better have done a hell of alot more in 8 years than Bush did in 9 months

CkG

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Crimson
And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

There is no connection between 9/11 and Iraq.

Do you have any evidence that Clinton stuck his head in the sand with regards to terrorism?

"But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts."
Posts about what? Iraq? That might be because 3,000 dead Americans has nothing to do with Iraq. Of course it's hard to know what posts you are referring to.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Crimson
And sticking our head in the sand like Clinton did got us where? 3000 dead Americans... But you guys never bring that up in any of your posts.. But you always bring up some Iraqi's who were humiliated... How humiliated are the 3000 people from 9/11? Oh thats right, they aren't humiliated because THEY ARE DEAD..

Except, of course, Clinton did far, far more about terrorism than Bush before 9/11. But hey, bleat on. It's one of those Bush fan-boy lies you guys use to stroke each other into a spittle-soaked frenzy of denial.

What exactly did he accomplish?

What did the Clinton Administration do?

Arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced the culprits behind the WTC Bombing *and* the African Embassy bombings. Also thwarted the Millennium attack plots.

I'd say that's a good job. FAR more than Bush ever did. Bush didn't care about Al Qaeda until after 9/11.

As for the USS Cole, that attack was in Oct. 2000 and by the time enough evidence was found to link it to Al Qaeda and specific members, the Bush Administration was in command and, oh, what was Rumsfeld's own testimony?!?! Too much time had passed! What a fool he is!

Clinton authorized the capture and even the killing of bin Laden.

Clinton wanted to pre-emptively attack Afghanistan but he could not get agreement from the CIA and the Pentagon.

 

[Format C:]

Actually, there's BILLIONS of "potential" terrorists. You guys can go love them and empathize with them if you want. Just don't get in the crosshairs.