Airport body scanners violate Jewish law, Rabbis say

SandEagle

Lifer
Aug 4, 2007
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Full Body Scanners Stir Debate


By: DAN VERBIN
Published: January 28th 2010


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airport security
Pic: fotolia



With the introduction of whole-body scanners into airports in Canada and the United States, leaders in the Orthodox and Conservative communities on both sides of the boarder have begun a debate into the Jewish notion of tzniut (“modesty”) in a post-911, security-conscious world.

While the laws of tzniut are observed in different ways by each denomination, they generally require Jews to cover their bodies.

The most problematic aspect of the scanners is that they can see through clothing, something that has also been a cause for concern for civil libertarians.

Religious leaders in the American Orthodox and Conservative communities have even sent a letter to a Senate subcommittee asking for a compromise on introduction of the scanning technology. North American Muslim groups have also complained.

Rabbi Chaim Strauchler of Shaarei Shomayim Congregation, a modern Orthodox synagogue in Toronto, said that protection of life (pikuach nefesh) is a Jewish value that trumps all others. He gave the example of violating Shabbat to save a life – an act that is not only allowed, but required.

“Modesty in an essential value in our culture. Application of this is one of balancing the two values of human safety and modesty,” he said.

He also noted that going through a full body scanner is not really that different than getting examined by a doctor, which Jews of all types regularly do without any qualms.

The key is to use the scanners in a reasonable way that takes security into account but does not abuse the value of modesty in the process.

“That doesn’t mean that modesty is given a pass as a value in security situations,” he said. “You build your security system to ensure an environment of professionalism and you make sure that the images are not compromised and that they are only viewed by security professionals.”

Because the airport official would be viewing the image in a separate room away from the traveller being scanned, Rabbi Harvey Meirovich of Toronto’s Beth Tzedec Congregation, a Conservative synagogue, cannot even believe that this is a major issue.

The question of whether whole-body scanners violate Jewish modesty laws “is an absolutely ridiculous question to ask, particularly in a post-911 world,” Meirovich said. “This whole thing is a mountain out of a molehill.”

To him, the scan is not at all different from getting an X-ray. Like Strauchler, he also pointed out that the sanctity of life has supremacy in Judaism. He does not believe that the scans violate modesty, but even if they did, he said that saving lives takes priority.

“We live in a world where security has to be done. You have to weigh the modesty issue versus the life threatening potential,” said Meirovich. “The principal of pikuach nefesh takes precedence over all aspects of life. This is the case even if there was infringing on the modesty of a person. Even there, it is of less important than potentially saving a life.”



http://www.shalomlife.com/eng/4379/Full_Body_Scanners_Stir_Debate/
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3831622,00.html
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=44415
http://www.forward.com/articles/123364/



well, well...both religions seem to agree that it violates modesty. go figure.



in response to:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2050142


 
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Sep 12, 2004
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well, well...both religions seem to agree that it violates modesty. go figure.



in response to:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2050142
I think everyone can agree that these scanners violate modesty. You don't have to be religious to recognize that fact.

The difference between Islam and Jews is their conclusion on the issue though, which vary markedly, and pretty much demonstrates how inflexible Islam can be on certain subjects.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
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I think everyone can agree that these scanners violate modesty. You don't have to be religious to recognize that fact.

The difference between Islam and Jews is their conclusion on the issue though, which vary markedly, and pretty much demonstrates how inflexible Islam can be on certain subjects.

You don't have to be a Muslim to think the body scanners are a ridiculous invasion of privacy. Honestly, I'm amazed at the number of people willing to accept them. Personally I think it's because people DON'T view the scanners for what they are...a device to give the people viewing them an equivalent view to you stripping butt naked in front of them.

Personally, I think it says something impressive about the Muslims who object that they aren't distracted by strip searches being dressed up in impressive technology with a fancy user interface. Presented in a more honest way (the TSA requires you to strip in front of a security officer), almost everyone would object.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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You don't have to be a Muslim to think the body scanners are a ridiculous invasion of privacy. Honestly, I'm amazed at the number of people willing to accept them. Personally I think it's because people DON'T view the scanners for what they are...a device to give the people viewing them an equivalent view to you stripping butt naked in front of them.

Personally, I think it says something impressive about the Muslims who object that they aren't distracted by strip searches being dressed up in impressive technology with a fancy user interface. Presented in a more honest way (the TSA requires you to strip in front of a security officer), almost everyone would object.
If I have to expose my package to the entire plane-load to ensure the one I'm flying on isn't blown up en route, I really don't care. I may not like it, but I look at it as what I have to do to be able to survive amongst the shitheads of the world. imo, everyone seeing my package is a lot less worse than being dead. ymmv. Also, it wouldn't be the first time I've had to inconvenience myself in order to accommodate the insanity of the world and it surely won't be the last.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Airport scanners violate my law too... the one called the Constitution, namely the 4th amendment.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
If I have to expose my package to the entire plane-load to ensure the one I'm flying on isn't blown up en route, I really don't care. I may not like it, but I look at it as what I have to do to be able to survive amongst the shitheads of the world. imo, everyone seeing my package is a lot less worse than being dead. ymmv. Also, it wouldn't be the first time I've had to inconvenience myself in order to accommodate the insanity of the world and it surely won't be the last.

No one cares about your package. What we do care about is your cowardice and the way it drives you to run to authority for protection. That IMO is far worse than being dead. Forget the fact that your odds of dying in a terrorist event are so remote as to be non-existent, you probably still sleep with the light on.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Because one has to go to an airport?


Yeah didn't think so.

The right to travel is inherent and protected in the Constitution. Your argument is akin to a saying that your employer should be able to strip-search its employees whenever it wants to because no one "has" to go to work.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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The OP needs to change his thread title......it`s false and NOT true!!

The article raises NO objections to the use of airport full body scanners...

The OP mis-read the article--
Rabbi Chaim Strauchler of Shaarei Shomayim Congregation, a modern Orthodox synagogue in Toronto, said that protection of life (pikuach nefesh) is a Jewish value that trumps all others. He gave the example of violating Shabbat to save a life – an act that is not only allowed, but required.

“Modesty in an essential value in our culture. Application of this is one of balancing the two values of human safety and modesty,” he said.

He also noted that going through a full body scanner is not really that different than getting examined by a doctor, which Jews of all types regularly do without any qualms.

The key is to use the scanners in a reasonable way that takes security into account but does not abuse the value of modesty in the process.

“That doesn’t mean that modesty is given a pass as a value in security situations,” he said. “You build your security system to ensure an environment of professionalism and you make sure that the images are not compromised and that they are only viewed by security professionals.”

Because the airport official would be viewing the image in a separate room away from the traveller being scanned, Rabbi Harvey Meirovich of Toronto’s Beth Tzedec Congregation, a Conservative synagogue, cannot even believe that this is a major issue.

The question of whether whole-body scanners violate Jewish modesty laws “is an absolutely ridiculous question to ask, particularly in a post-911 world,” Meirovich said. “This whole thing is a mountain out of a molehill.”


The links the Op posted supposedly backing up his claim all say that if done correctly there is nothing wrong with the full body scanners.
Men scan men and women scan women.....and so on!!
The thread title is mvery mis-leading!
hell if my jewish brothers do not want a full body scan there are other alternatives including not to travel!!
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,940
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If I have to expose my package to the entire plane-load to ensure the one I'm flying on isn't blown up en route, I really don't care. I may not like it, but I look at it as what I have to do to be able to survive amongst the shitheads of the world. imo, everyone seeing my package is a lot less worse than being dead. ymmv. Also, it wouldn't be the first time I've had to inconvenience myself in order to accommodate the insanity of the world and it surely won't be the last.

What about at court houses, sports stadiums, schools? They're being installed in some courthouses, one in Denver I believe. Would you want your children going through such scanners for strangers to stare at naked images of your children? At what point will you say enough is enough?
 
Sep 12, 2004
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No one cares about your package. What we do care about is your cowardice and the way it drives you to run to authority for protection. That IMO is far worse than being dead. Forget the fact that your odds of dying in a terrorist event are so remote as to be non-existent, you probably still sleep with the light on.
Don't be stupid. This has nothing to do with cowardice. This about the choice of the lesser of two evils, something all of us have to deal with on a daily basis.

And who is really running to authority? I'm not the one agreeing with Muslim scholars. I guess everyone had their own version of authority though, eh?
 
Sep 12, 2004
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What about at court houses, sports stadiums, schools? They're being installed in some courthouses, one in Denver I believe. Would you want your children going through such scanners for strangers to stare at naked images of your children? At what point will you say enough is enough?
lol. The 'Think of the Children' defense rears its ugly head.

A writing tip - You should have used 'leer' instead of "stare." It would have had more emotional impact.
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,940
0
76
What question? You didn't actually ask a question. You merely insinuated that airport screeners are pedophiles, which is a really weak insinuation in the first place.

The last sentence of my post: "At what point will you say enough is enough?"
 
Sep 12, 2004
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For a moment, I thought this was a parody thread.



This.
Please elucidate us all how this is a violation of 4th Amendment rights?

Here's something to consider. The violation of 4th Amendment rights in court cases regarding searches relies heavily upon detainment. These scanners don't require any sort of detainment. Walk right through. No different than any other walk-through scanners, except that someone in another room can see anything you might have concealed on your body, and your private parts are actually blurred out anyway.

People trying to equate this to a strip-search are...reaching.
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,940
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I already stated that point when you brought "children" into the argument.

I'll have to rephrase the question then.

At what point will you think that security measures have gone to far? Say if the body scanners fail, and another underwear bomber or whatever gets through. Installing actual x-ray machines etc?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Don't be stupid. This has nothing to do with cowardice. This about the choice of the lesser of two evils, something all of us have to deal with on a daily basis.
Lesser of 2 evils we all have to deal with on a daily basis? Do you mean the odds of getting killed in a terrorist attack or in a car accident?

And who is really running to authority? I'm not the one agreeing with Muslim scholars. I guess everyone had their own version of authority though, eh?

Where did I agree with any Muslim scholars? Oh wait, I get it, you're just trolling now...
 
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