Airbus or Boeing?

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Martin
The market has spoken, and I'm sorry if that hurts your silly american pride.

The market has also already ordered 52 7E7s.

 

[GoSharks]

actually 56, with rumors for many more.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Martin
The market has spoken, and I'm sorry if that hurts your silly american pride.

The market has also already ordered 52 7E7s.

and 129 A380s. And need I mention the 285 vs 320 planes for Airbus this year? And last year's Airbus orders?


Fact is, Boeing has now been forced to abandon the large plane market, despite the fact that over its lifetime it has sold 1400+ 747s. The 380 will only be able to fly on 60 airports (or at least, to start with. That number will only grow), BUT the slot fees at those airports are exorbitant, that's the whole point of having a large jet. In addition, it saves money on fuel, as it gets 95mpg/passenger. Not only that, but its a versatile jet. Premium airlines like Emirates will fly with ~500 passengers and offer bars/shower/some of those new fangled features promised. At the same time, some airlines will also be able to configure it with 700-800 passengers, almost double what a 747 can do. If an airline can put 2x more people on 1 flight and thus cut the price, imagine the boon this will be to developing countries (which, incidentally, will be the ones building new airpots capable fo supporting the A380).

As if that's not enough, they are now starting work on the A350, which is more than the "souped up" 330 Boeing wants you to think it is. You should read up on the specs, Airbus are estimating performance (ie savings, range etc) on par with Boeing's. Not only that, but because its only partially made of composites, the A350 has a much higher chance of beign developed on time/spec/budget, since theirs is less of a technological gamble than the 7E7.

So you see now, Airbus is attacking on 2 fronts, offering airlines (which save money by standardizing) a full range of planes, something boeing has no plans on doing for a very long time.

The market has indeed spoken, and it'll continue this way until Boeing get their act together and start offerign a full range of aircraft. The way this can happen is for them to get the 7E7 right, then use the technology to make a superjumbo of their own. Thus, I would not expect them to regain market share for a decade or so.

 

[Martin]

To add a few thigns:

1. There's actually 149 A380s on order and they need a mere 250 to break even.
2. The 7E7 is not scheduled to fly until 2009 (more likely 2010, given they're developing new technology), giving Airbus more than enough time to come up with a worthy competitor.
figures and other info
http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=65762005

 

[OffTopic1]

Originally posted by: Rustynuts
Too many fly-by-wire crashes with Airbus!! China Air has lots of problems with flying into mountains for some reason, NO WAY I WOULD FLY THEM.

Not fly-by-wire crashes & I don't know the number of Boeing verses Airbus inservice is but the number is pretty lopsided.

Boeing 1969-2003 = 169 accidents.

Airbus 1976-200 = 19 accidents

Boeing accidents

Airbus accidents

 

[amol]

I've flown on both

I like Airbus only when I'm flying Economy International . . .

 

[crab]

Originally posted by: OffTopic

Originally posted by: Rustynuts
Too many fly-by-wire crashes with Airbus!! China Air has lots of problems with flying into mountains for some reason, NO WAY I WOULD FLY THEM.

Not fly-by-wire crashes & I don't know the number of Boeing verses Airbus inservice is but the number is pretty lopsided.

Boeing 1969-2003 = 169 accidents.

Airbus 1976-200 = 19 accidents

Boeing accidents

Airbus accidents

Part of the reason for that are the shear numbers of Boeing airplanes built long before Airbus even got started. The A320, which REALLY got Airbus rolling, didn't come out until 1988 or so, and Boeing was building jets by the bucket load since the 50s.

I'd fly either brand without worry. No real preference from a comfort standpoint.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: OffTopic

Originally posted by: Rustynuts
Too many fly-by-wire crashes with Airbus!! China Air has lots of problems with flying into mountains for some reason, NO WAY I WOULD FLY THEM.

Not fly-by-wire crashes & I don't know the number of Boeing verses Airbus inservice is but the number is pretty lopsided.

Boeing 1969-2003 = 169 accidents.

Airbus 1976-200 = 19 accidents

Boeing accidents

Airbus accidents

A quick look turned up this:

Total aircraft produced prior to 2002

Boeing - 10,903

Airbus - 3,043

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0107.shtml

Edit: It would become interesting to break down how many accidents were the result of actual design probems for each company. Pilot error, weather, engine problems, improper maintenance, and other causes excluded.

 

[bootymac]

Airbus, simply to try something new

 

[Babbles]

Boeing because they have proven themselves in the free market. Airbus seemed to have came about only with the European governments bankrolling them.

 

[A5]

Boeing because they pay my Dad

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: Babbles
Boeing because they have proven themselves in the free market. Airbus seemed to have came about only with the European governments bankrolling them.

Boeing gets bankrolled by the DoD...it's pretty much the same, except they actually have to do something for the money

 

[vtqanh]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: OffTopic

Originally posted by: Rustynuts
Too many fly-by-wire crashes with Airbus!! China Air has lots of problems with flying into mountains for some reason, NO WAY I WOULD FLY THEM.

Not fly-by-wire crashes & I don't know the number of Boeing verses Airbus inservice is but the number is pretty lopsided.

Boeing 1969-2003 = 169 accidents.

Airbus 1976-200 = 19 accidents

Boeing accidents

Airbus accidents

A quick look turned up this:

Total aircraft produced prior to 2002

Boeing - 10,903

Airbus - 3,043

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0107.shtml

Edit: It would become interesting to break down how many accidents were the result of actual design probems for each company. Pilot error, weather, engine problems, improper maintenance, and other causes excluded.

So Boeing makes 3.5x more planes and has 8.8x more crashes. Assuming the pilot errors/weather variables being the same for both manufacturers, the statistic shows that Airbus has been safer, am I right?

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: Babbles
Boeing because they have proven themselves in the free market. Airbus seemed to have came about only with the European governments bankrolling them.

Boeing gets bankrolled by the DoD...it's pretty much the same, except they actually have to do something for the money

Sure they sell stuff to the US government as a customer. However 50 years ago, or whenever, the US government didn't give a bunch of tax money and a blank check to the founders of Boeing and tell them, "Have fun."
Boeing grew out of competition with the likes of General Dynamics, McDonald-Douglas, Grumman, etcetera.

The EU, on the other hand, basically threw money into an enterprise to gain an unfair market share.

It is kind of ironic in that the EU has been suing and fining Microsoft for including Internet Explorer with Windows due to it being a monopoly in their eyes. However it is just fine for the EU to bankroll an aircraft manufacturer to create their own monopoly.

 

[MAME]

uncle is semi-high up in the airbus ladder, so I have to go with airbus

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: vtqanh

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: OffTopic

Originally posted by: Rustynuts
Too many fly-by-wire crashes with Airbus!! China Air has lots of problems with flying into mountains for some reason, NO WAY I WOULD FLY THEM.

Not fly-by-wire crashes & I don't know the number of Boeing verses Airbus inservice is but the number is pretty lopsided.

Boeing 1969-2003 = 169 accidents.

Airbus 1976-200 = 19 accidents

Boeing accidents

Airbus accidents

A quick look turned up this:

Total aircraft produced prior to 2002

Boeing - 10,903

Airbus - 3,043

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0107.shtml

Edit: It would become interesting to break down how many accidents were the result of actual design probems for each company. Pilot error, weather, engine problems, improper maintenance, and other causes excluded.

So Boeing makes 3.5x more planes and has 8.8x more crashes. Assuming the pilot errors/weather variables being the same for both manufacturers, the statistic shows that Airbus has been safer, am I right?

Haha, no they don't. Learn how to analyze and think about data before you go running your mouth.

There are many differences due to changes in technology, safety, pilot instruction, and so forth. You just can't simply brush away this very important conditions. Then again I suppose you can if you are trying to warp information to suit your agenda.

For example Uganda Airlines probably don't have as rigorous flight training as say an American carrier. Therefore if the plane crashes whose fault is it? By your logic it must be Boeing's.

 

[crab]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: vtqanh

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: OffTopic

Originally posted by: Rustynuts
Too many fly-by-wire crashes with Airbus!! China Air has lots of problems with flying into mountains for some reason, NO WAY I WOULD FLY THEM.

Not fly-by-wire crashes & I don't know the number of Boeing verses Airbus inservice is but the number is pretty lopsided.

Boeing 1969-2003 = 169 accidents.

Airbus 1976-200 = 19 accidents

Boeing accidents

Airbus accidents

A quick look turned up this:

Total aircraft produced prior to 2002

Boeing - 10,903

Airbus - 3,043

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0107.shtml

Edit: It would become interesting to break down how many accidents were the result of actual design probems for each company. Pilot error, weather, engine problems, improper maintenance, and other causes excluded.

So Boeing makes 3.5x more planes and has 8.8x more crashes. Assuming the pilot errors/weather variables being the same for both manufacturers, the statistic shows that Airbus has been safer, am I right?

Haha, no they don't. Learn how to analyze and think about data before you go running your mouth.

There are many differences due to changes in technology, safety, pilot instruction, and so forth. You just can't simply brush away this very important conditions. Then again I suppose you can if you are trying to warp information to suit your agenda.

For example Uganda Airlines probably don't have as rigorous flight training as say an American carrier. Therefore if the plane crashes whose fault is it? By your logic it must be Boeing's.

Plus, it's carriers like that that have been buying up old retired Boeing airplanes and flying the balls of them....they crash these things quite a bit.

 

[vtqanh]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: vtqanh

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: OffTopic

Originally posted by: Rustynuts
Too many fly-by-wire crashes with Airbus!! China Air has lots of problems with flying into mountains for some reason, NO WAY I WOULD FLY THEM.

Not fly-by-wire crashes & I don't know the number of Boeing verses Airbus inservice is but the number is pretty lopsided.

Boeing 1969-2003 = 169 accidents.

Airbus 1976-200 = 19 accidents

Boeing accidents

Airbus accidents

A quick look turned up this:

Total aircraft produced prior to 2002

Boeing - 10,903

Airbus - 3,043

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0107.shtml

Edit: It would become interesting to break down how many accidents were the result of actual design probems for each company. Pilot error, weather, engine problems, improper maintenance, and other causes excluded.

So Boeing makes 3.5x more planes and has 8.8x more crashes. Assuming the pilot errors/weather variables being the same for both manufacturers, the statistic shows that Airbus has been safer, am I right?

Haha, no they don't. Learn how to analyze and think about data before you go running your mouth.

There are many differences due to changes in technology, safety, pilot instruction, and so forth. You just can't simply brush away this very important conditions. Then again I suppose you can if you are trying to warp information to suit your agenda.

For example Uganda Airlines probably don't have as rigorous flight training as say an American carrier. Therefore if the plane crashes whose fault is it? By your logic it must be Boeing's.

Well, until more information is provided, I can only make out the statistic using the provided data. And if the difference isn't small, either 3.3x vs 8.8x. And where did you get the information that Uganda Airlines pilots didn't have as much training as American carriers? Learn how to provide supportive information before running your own mouth, too. But for a moment let us assume that this is right (the fact that American carriers provide better training for the pilots), that doesn't seem to help the statistic since the majority of American carriers are using Boeing, and not Airbus.

 

[So]

holy old thread Batman!